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Does Heaven have Levels/Tiers?

seeker2122

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So some people have told me they don't believe Heaven has levels/tiers meaning, bigger crowns, bigger mansions, higher position in Heaven for those who had great faith on earth, and spent all their lives following God's commands doing missions work and serving the church, giving, etc.

Those that still accepted and believe in Jesus but didn't really live a life that models Christ's teachings/commands will still enter heaven but have a smaller crown, small dwelling, lower position and people will see this.

I've often heard that you might be surprised to see famous pastors in heaven with small treasures versus an unknown lowly humble servant on earth who will have a large crown and biggest mansion in heaven. Everyone will be able to see this and realize aha! that pastor or great christian wasn't as holy and godly as he appeared on earth! His position is low in heaven whereas the people you thought little of on earth were actually of great faith, and in heaven you will see their reward is even bigger than the famous christians you thought were so godly and amazing.

Hence the passage where it says do not store up treasures on earth but store up treasures in heaven seems to indicate the whole "last shall be first" motif.
 

tampasteve

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I think a lot of those ideas are metaphors taken way out of context or people just imagining what they would want out of Heaven. Often people take our Western materialistic view of life and superimpose it on our ancient near-eastern scriptures.
 
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Sabertooth

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Does Heaven have Levels/Tiers?
READ Jesus' Parable of the Minas...
"Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’
And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant;

because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’
And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’
Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities...’
" Luke 19:16-19 NKJV
 
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tampasteve

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READ Jesus' Parable of the Minas...
"Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’
And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant;

because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’
And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’
Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities...’
" Luke 19:16-19 NKJV
Which has nothing to do with Heaven, it is broadly about the Millennial Kingdom.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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So some people have told me they don't believe Heaven has levels/tiers meaning, bigger crowns, bigger mansions, higher position in Heaven for those who had great faith on earth, and spent all their lives following God's commands doing missions work and serving the church, giving, etc.

Those that still accepted and believe in Jesus but didn't really live a life that models Christ's teachings/commands will still enter heaven but have a smaller crown, small dwelling, lower position and people will see this.

I've often heard that you might be surprised to see famous pastors in heaven with small treasures versus an unknown lowly humble servant on earth who will have a large crown and biggest mansion in heaven. Everyone will be able to see this and realize aha! that pastor or great christian wasn't as holy and godly as he appeared on earth! His position is low in heaven whereas the people you thought little of on earth were actually of great faith, and in heaven you will see their reward is even bigger than the famous christians you thought were so godly and amazing.

Hence the passage where it says do not store up treasures on earth but store up treasures in heaven seems to indicate the whole "last shall be first" motif.
I'll have to be honest with you, the OP description eerily sounds like Islam and Mormonism. The only difference is Christianity leaves room for the unrepentant and I am affraid that is a false Gospel. There are many metaphors to describe the heavenly Kingdom of God. None of which garners ones own personal monetary gain but rather describes perfection in Love by the Union of God and man in eternity. Nothing else will be needed. A Crown signifies triumph.
Blessings
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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So some people have told me they don't believe Heaven has levels/tiers meaning, bigger crowns, bigger mansions, higher position in Heaven for those who had great faith on earth, and spent all their lives following God's commands doing missions work and serving the church, giving, etc.

Those that still accepted and believe in Jesus but didn't really live a life that models Christ's teachings/commands will still enter heaven but have a smaller crown, small dwelling, lower position and people will see this.

I've often heard that you might be surprised to see famous pastors in heaven with small treasures versus an unknown lowly humble servant on earth who will have a large crown and biggest mansion in heaven. Everyone will be able to see this and realize aha! that pastor or great christian wasn't as holy and godly as he appeared on earth! His position is low in heaven whereas the people you thought little of on earth were actually of great faith, and in heaven you will see their reward is even bigger than the famous christians you thought were so godly and amazing.

Hence the passage where it says do not store up treasures on earth but store up treasures in heaven seems to indicate the whole "last shall be first" motif.
heaven has rewards and the works done on earth will determine what your rewards are we do not know what those rewards will be but each one us is endowed by our creator with different gifts and abilities and we are going to be changed and perhaps the gifts and abilities we possess in the resurrection in our new bodies will be determined by our faithfulness here or perhaps it is rank and assignments in the kingdom we will find out when we get there.
 
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Samuel T Kim

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heaven has rewards and the works done on earth will determine what your rewards are we do not know what those rewards will be but each one us is endowed by our creator with different gifts and abilities and we are going to be changed and perhaps the gifts and abilities we possess in the resurrection in our new bodies will be determined by our faithfulness here or perhaps it is rank and assignments in the kingdom we will find out when we get there.

Agree.
 
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Jonaitis

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So some people have told me they don't believe Heaven has levels/tiers meaning, bigger crowns, bigger mansions, higher position in Heaven for those who had great faith on earth, and spent all their lives following God's commands doing missions work and serving the church, giving, etc.

Those that still accepted and believe in Jesus but didn't really live a life that models Christ's teachings/commands will still enter heaven but have a smaller crown, small dwelling, lower position and people will see this.

I've often heard that you might be surprised to see famous pastors in heaven with small treasures versus an unknown lowly humble servant on earth who will have a large crown and biggest mansion in heaven. Everyone will be able to see this and realize aha! that pastor or great christian wasn't as holy and godly as he appeared on earth! His position is low in heaven whereas the people you thought little of on earth were actually of great faith, and in heaven you will see their reward is even bigger than the famous christians you thought were so godly and amazing.

Hence the passage where it says do not store up treasures on earth but store up treasures in heaven seems to indicate the whole "last shall be first" motif.
Well, heaven, if we are talking about the same thing, will be established on the renewed earth, according to 2 Peter 3:13. So the imagery would likely be similar, though not quite the same, to the way it is now.

I don't know, but setting people in a certain class for all eternity for the consequences of this short-lived life sounds pretty lame, frankly.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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in the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.

The earth has stratas, levels, what have you ... but the realm of the spirit is kind of grasping at the wind to the earthly "level oriented" mind.

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." (John 3:8)
 
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seeker2122

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Thanks for the replies.
Since we really can't know exactly what heaven is going to be like and there are endless interpretations which each have some merit, but not fully, the bigger question isn't really what heaven is like but IF tiers do exist, then it begs the question about salvation.

Is it possible that some people who make it have a "lesser" reward than others who might have a "greater" reward? Two views on this: Some believe that being "saved" is simply a yes and no answer. It's not possible to say you are half saved or fully saved like saying being half pregnant or fully pregnant. You either pregnant or you are not.

Is salvation like this? You either saved or you aren't saved. Can you be 80% saved but 20% still in unbelief and disobedience? Or does that 20% disqualify the 80% faith/salvation of you being saved?

If tiers exist in heaven, it seems to indicate that salvation does accept believers who are not 100% fully in faith but have some doubt and some disobedience. But the hardcore fundamentalist take is that to be a true follower of Christ, you have to be fully committed and all in. You can't say to Jesus, "Yes! I believe in you and will follow you 90% but the other 10% I want to still keep my sin because I can't fully let go of everything". Then this person won't make it to heaven.

So if the basic/bare minimum requirement so-to-speak to make it to heaven (be saved) is to just believe in faith that Jesus is Lord, Son of God, died for your sins, and his God himself, then that alone should qualify one to heaven/salvation even if they don't live their lives following the commands of Christ ie., missionary work, evangelizing, tithing etc. So even if you don't do anything but simply profess you truly do believe in Jesus and accept him as Lord and Savior, you are saved but maybe your position or reward in heaven isn't that great (albeit simply getting to heaven should be great in itself right?). But one who not just professed and believed in Christ with faith but LIVED out their earthly lives in sacrifice and suffering by being a missionary or evangelizing or fasting of all the worldly pleasures will have a greater reward/position in heaven?

It seems unlikely that the two Christians I just compared would have the same/equal heavenly reward. It does seem like tiers do exist after the bare minimum of just qualifying for salvation.
 
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seeker2122

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Here's a good example I think we can all relate to and you probably know a ton of "Christians" like this. Say you are a regular church-going member and have been your whole life. You really do believe in Jesus and the Bible and accepted him BUT aside from some prayer, a bit of bible reading during the week, you don't do anything more in your life as a follower. You just go to your job work 40+ hours a week in your career, have a social life / friends, and raise a family and do the usual cushy life stuff (vacations, trips, outings, hobbies, renovate your house interior/exterior etc). Most Christians we would admit are like this. We attend church regularly, and do a bit of praying and bible reading during the week but that's it. The rest of our lives is spent working, socializing, family life, living comfortably. Are these kinds of Christians not true followers of Christ and be shocked on the day when they are turned away by Jesus saying, "Away from me! I never knew you" ? Or would these types of christians (90% of us) still make it to heaven but have a lesser reward than another christian who actually lived out their lives doing exactly what Jesus commanded?
 
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Sabertooth

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...then it begs the question about salvation.
That is a leap. In the Parable Of The Talents (Matthew's recording of the parable above), Jesus said,
For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country,
who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.
And to one he gave five talents,

to another two, and
to another one,
to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey.
Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents.

And likewise he who had received two gained two more also.
But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money.
After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them..."
Matt. 25:14-19 NKJV​

Notice that their differences were inherent, not a measure of their works. The Master did not expect the two-talent servant to manage five talents. And He would have been happy if the one-talent servant would have only gained one more. He even said the interest of putting it in the bank would have been better than nothing...!

So the tiers implied in Heaven are not a measure of one Christian outperforming another, but rather if we live up to our potential* or not, by heeding the Spirit's guidance [John 14:26].

*Whatever it is.
 
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Sabertooth

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...hobbies,...
Hobbies & clubs (if not otherwise offensive) can get you into certain circles where you can evangelize while still being a valid participant.
 
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Wayne Gabler

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So some people have told me they don't believe Heaven has levels/tiers meaning, bigger crowns, bigger mansions, higher position in Heaven for those who had great faith on earth, and spent all their lives following God's commands doing missions work and serving the church, giving, etc.
Mankind's perfected heaven will be the universe once holy angels are in 'this place' (as their perfected heaven). Our task is to turn it into a larger version of Eden. When that is done, we will follow the ahgels to their perfected heaven.
This is for after God has sent Satan and all fallen angels to the fiery lake at the end of the 1,000-year reign and the beginning of the Great White Throne event.

Isa:51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
Heb:12:22-23:
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
 
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seeker2122

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That is a leap. In the Parable Of The Talents (Matthew's recording of the parable above), Jesus said,
For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country,
who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.
And to one he gave five talents,

to another two, and
to another one,
to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey.
Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents.

And likewise he who had received two gained two more also.
But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money.
After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them..."
Matt. 25:14-19 NKJV​

Notice that their differences were inherent, not a measure of their works. The Master did not expect the two-talent servant to manage five talents. And He would have been happy if the one-talent servant would have only gained one more. He even said the interest of putting it in the bank would have been better than nothing...!

So the tiers implied in Heaven are not a measure of one Christian outperforming another, but rather if we live up to our potential* or not, by heeding the Spirit's guidance [John 14:26].

*Whatever it is.

I agree. This is actually my stance as well. I do believe there are tiers in heaven
and it's not necessarily a measure of one outperforming another but who was faithful to their own specific calling.

There was that passage somewhere about teachers or certain people having higher or more responsibility than others so they would be judged more strictly/harshly.
 
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seeker2122

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I still wonder though, even if God gives each of us different callings and seemingly different levels of "wowness" factor, what is the cut off point? Would God actually give some people a tiny calling like just go to church every Sunday, read the bible 1 hour a week, pray a few minutes a day, and be nice to your neighbors and family and maybe evangelize to just 10 people in your lifetime and you have fulfilled your calling and will go to heaven? versus someone who is called to give up their entire life (their own desires and dreams) and do something like be a lifelong missionary in poor and difficult living conditions?

Can you be considered a follower of Christ and enter heaven by just believing in your heart Jesus is Lord, go to church, read and pray some, but after that pretty much live your own life and career and enjoy your friends, family, travels, materials/possessions, at your own comfort and pace?

I feel like the hardline christians would say absolutely not. Those people are not true christians. Hmm....
 
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Wayne Gabler

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I agree. This is actually my stance as well. I do believe there are tiers in heaven
and it's not necessarily a measure of one outperforming another but who was faithful to their own specific calling.

There was that passage somewhere about teachers or certain people having higher or more responsibility than others so they would be judged more strictly/harshly.
How many people can define what all 3 heavens are?

2Co:12:2:
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,
(whether in the body,
I cannot tell;
or whether out of the body,
I cannot tell:
God knoweth;)
such an one caught up to the third heaven.
Heb:12:22-25:
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,
and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh.
For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth,
much more shall not we escape,
if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
 
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Wayne Gabler

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I still wonder though, even if God gives each of us different callings and seemingly different levels of "wowness" factor, what is the cut off point? Would God actually give some people a tiny calling like just go to church every Sunday, read the bible 1 hour a week, pray a few minutes a day, and be nice to your neighbors and family and maybe evangelize to just 10 people in your lifetime and you have fulfilled your calling and will go to heaven? versus someone who is called to give up their entire life (their own desires and dreams) and do something like be a lifelong missionary in poor and difficult living conditions?
Why does how others are saved seem to bother you as you consider yourself saved. Right off the bat this applies to your post, the answer is also in the same parable:
M't:20:1-2:
For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder,
which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day,
he sent them into his vineyard.
.
.
M't:20:6-7:
And about the eleventh hour he went out,
and found others standing idle,
and saith unto them,
Why stand ye here all the day idle?
They say unto him,
Because no man hath hired us.
He saith unto them,
Go ye also into the vineyard;
and whatsoever is right,
that shall ye receive.
.
.
M't:20:9-15:
And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour,
they received every man a penny.
But when the first came,
they supposed that they should have received more;
and they likewise received every man a penny.
And when they had received it,
they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Saying,
These last have wrought but one hour,
and thou hast made them equal unto us,
which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
But he answered one of them,
and said,
Friend,
I do thee no wrong:
didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Take that thine is,
and go thy way:
I will give unto this last,
even as unto thee.
Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own?
Is thine eye evil,
because I am good?

If you are promoting that some Gentiles get in via the 'light yoke', but I doubt you would object to all these people being alive for the 1,000 years as they are doing a lot less than your list even?
Eze:36:16-24:
Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me,
saying,
Son of man,
when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land,
they defiled it by their own way and by their doings:
their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land,
and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
And I scattered them among the heathen,
and they were dispersed through the countries:
according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
And when they entered unto the heathen,
whither they went,
they profaned my holy name,
when they said to them,
These are the people of the LORD,
and are gone forth out of his land.
But I had pity for mine holy name,
which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen,
whither they went.
Therefore say unto the house of Israel,
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
I do not this for your sakes,
O house of Israel,
but for mine holy name's sake,
which ye have profaned among the heathen,
whither ye went.
And I will sanctify my great name,
which was profaned among the heathen,
which ye have profaned in the midst of them;
and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD,
saith the Lord GOD,
when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
For I will take you from among the heathen,
and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land.

Can you be considered a follower of Christ and enter heaven by just believing in your heart Jesus is Lord, go to church, read and pray some, but after that pretty much live your own life and career and enjoy your friends, family, travels, materials/possessions, at your own comfort and pace?
Agree the doubting Thomas story was a real event and be a good Samaritan.
Jews cannot do they, they are like God made them:
M't:5:43-48:
Ye have heard that it hath been said,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour,
and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you,
Love your enemies,
bless them that curse you,
do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:
for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good,
and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you,
what reward have ye?
do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only,
what do ye more than others?
do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect,
even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I feel like the hardline christians would say absolutely not. Those people are not true christians. Hmm....
How many real Christians have you chatted up?

1Th:5:1-7:
But of the times and the seasons,
brethren,
ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say,
Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child;
and they shall not escape.
But ye,
brethren,
are not in darkness,
that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light,
and the children of the day:
we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep,
as do others;
but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night;
and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
Re:16:15-21:
Behold,
I come as a thief.
Blessed is he that watcheth,
and keepeth his garments,
lest he walk naked,
and they see his shame.
And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air;
and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven,
from the throne,
saying,
It is done.
And there were voices,
and thunders,
and lightnings;
and there was a great earthquake,
such as was not since men were upon the earth,
so mighty an earthquake,
and so great.
And the great city was divided into three parts,
and the cities of the nations fell:
and great Babylon came in remembrance before God,
to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
And every island fled away,
and the mountains were not found.
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven,
every stone about the weight of a talent:
and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail;
for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

For what its worth, Christians study the Bible at home during the week and then talk with others about what they learned. (rather than some Rabbi or Priest preaches to a dead silent group and takes no questions at the end)
 
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