Does God's plan require evil?

[ViaCrucis]

Does God's plan require evil?

No.

But evil cannot thwart God's good purposes for the universe.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[com7fy8]

Does God's plan require evil?

God's number-one focus and purpose is shown through Romans 8:29, I would say.

But there is evil in existence. This can not stop God, nor can it help Him. But since evil is a reality, God keeps it in its place.

 

[coffee4u]

Does God's plan require evil?

God defines evil not humanity.
1 John 4:16


God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

This is the trouble with people, people feel they are the ones in control, that they decide what is good or bad, we don't.

Laws are based on what society as a whole or often what one powerful group in a society deem to be right and wrong. Given another society, another culture, another time and place those laws could be reversed.

A tribe practicing cannibalism has deemed eating people, often enemies, is a good thing to do. They don't eat people and feel bad about it, why should they? It has been deemed by the society they live in as the right thing to do.
This is why fallen people do not decide what is evil. Not ultimately. Nor do we have the right or capacity to judge God and say that was evil.

But this is exactly what we are doing when we say "God did this and it was evil." What they really mean is, "I a mere man have decided this act to be evil and so it must be evil because I said it is."

Romans 9:20
But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’

Is cannibalism evil? Why or why not?
Without the authority of God's word mankind only has what he feels to be right or wrong according to him and according to the people that live in the society around him. God said he put his laws on our hearts.

Romans 2:14-15
14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

But the further people pull back and turn away from God the cloudier and less clear those heart laws become.
If most people either agree or silently go along with something that is what will eventually become law and be seen as right because the children will be raised to think of it as right. If that society has deemed cannibalism to be an okay thing to do to enemies then that is what will be viewed as good. If an outsider comes in and says no this is wrong based on nothing more than 'This is horrible, don't you know its wrong" is an unwinnable argument. It is based only upon their feelings. The people there have feelings too so what argument are you left with? It is one groups feelings vs another groups feelings.
This is why Gods law is a moral absolute, it doesn't take peoples feelings into the equation. God says this is right and this is wrong. Regardless of our feelings about it.

So no God's plan does not contain evil. If actual evil occurs because humanity decides to do something evil, God will use what happened in some way for good if the larger plan requires it.
Josephs brothers threw him down a pit and sold him was an evil thing to do. God didn't make them do that nor did he want them to do that, but he did foresee them doing that. God made sure that by Joseph going to Egypt would not be wasted but be turned around for good.
“You meant evil against me, but God meant it for good” (Genesis 50:20)
If his brothers had been good honorable men who had not done such a thing then God would have made sure to bring food to the people some other way.

 

[timothyu]

Technically, God created evil, if he created us knowing we’d do evil things.

Gen 3: 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

 

[Chriliman]

Gen 3: 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

So good and evil eternally exist like God does?

 

[timothyu]

So good and evil eternally exist like God does?

Well it existed in God's world or He wouldn't have known it. Otherwise He would have had no reason to say don't eat of that tree.

 

[Chriliman]

Well it existed in God's world or He wouldn't have known it. Otherwise He would have had no reason to say don't eat of that tree.

Yea, it’s just interesting we often think created beings brought evil into the world, but had God not created anything then evil would only exist as a possibility and not a reality. But I guess creating the reality of evil is necessary to do what God wants to do. At least thats how it seems based on my understanding of the text.

 

[timothyu]

But I guess creating the reality of evil is necessary to do what God wants to do

Yes, have us experience and understand how the self serving ways of man is fruitless in ways other than destruction and gain at the expense of others. Repentance shows that realization and opens the door to the Kingdom.

 

[TedT]

God's number-one focus and purpose is shown through Romans 8:29, I would say.

I apply this logic only to the redemption of HIS sinful elect which was only a part of HIS eternal purpose.

The bible culminates with the marriage of the Lamb after the banishment of all evil and the full sanctification, ie perfect holiness, of all HIS elect therefore I see the heavenly marriage to be HIS main focus, HIS eternal plan and purpose for our creation.

 

[timothyu]

I see the heavenly marriage to be HIS main focus, HIS eternal plan and purpose for our creation.

Yes His marriage to the new Kingdom, His bride previously non-existent. The place He went to prepare. The focus of His only Gospel. The wedding feast where gentiles were allowed to become guests at as a second choice.

 

[pc_76]

Without bitter, we can't comprehend sweet, without night, day has little meaning. The fullness of living requires depths as well as heights. If we picture all existence (the whole cosmos from beginning to end) without contrast it would be one dimensional, formless, in a way, a non-existence, an endless sleep where one does not dream.

I find that one to be a little funny because Heaven or New Earth doesn't operate by those standards.

 

[bling]

Does God's plan require evil?

If evil was not needed to help humans in their fulfilling their earthly objective God would have removed it.

Everything needs to start with the objective.

The differences and issues begin with misunderstanding of the objective. Most Christians like: Man’s objective is to “bring glory to God” and have scripture references to support that objective, but a person can take any commandment or direction of God given in scripture and have Biblical support for call that command: “Man’s Objective”. We are certainly commanded to do that command, so why is it not man’s objective?

There are the two superior commands which all other commands are subordinate to and combined would be like: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind, and energy.” That appears to be man’s “Mission Statement”. The huge problem with fulfilling that “Mission Statement” is the fact that the “Love” needed would have to be huge, way beyond anything man could develop, learn, deserve, earn, pay back, be instinctive to man, or somehow just be forced upon humans.

Thus, the reason you have free will, is because it is required for you to complete your earthly objective.

This messed up world which includes satan roaming around is not here for your pleasure, but to help each of us to become like God Himself in that you have the unique, unbelievable Godly type Love (God himself is Love).

There are just somethings even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), like create another Christ, since Christ has always existed, the big impossibility for us is; create humans with instinctive Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also, if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type Love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real alternatives (for humans those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)

Read the story of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15, the young son was generously given more then he could handle (like most of us today), which the father would realize. The prodigal son returned to his father, not out of “Love”, but selfishly wanting a job he did not deserve or should even ask for. Just because the son became just willing to accept pure undeserved charity from the father he hated, allowed the father to shower him with gifts. God is that way with you.

God has created beings to shower them with the greatest gifts possible, the greatest gift being having a Love like His.

If there is this Creator of the universe out there, His “creations” could not really “do” anything for Him, so this Creator would have to be seen as a Giver (Unselfish Lover) and not trying to “get” something from His creation.

Why would God have a totally unselfish type of Love, since He personally would not get anything out of it? If God’s “Love” is some kind of knee jerk reaction, then it is really meaningless (something like; gravity which is nice to have, but everyone automatically has it). God Loves us in spite of what we have done, who we are or what we will do, so it has to be by His choice.

God would create the right universe for the sake of the individuals that will accept His gift (the most powerful force [Love] in all universes, since that force [Love] compels even God to do all He does) and thus the willing become like He is (the greatest gift He could give).

What keeps the all-powerful Creator from just giving whatever He wants to his creation, eliminating the need for free will and this earthly time.

This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).

This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.

All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them, burden them, to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant, so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).

Sin has purpose in helping willing humans in fulfilling their objective. God does not like it but allows it.

 

[TedT]

If evil was not needed to help humans in their fulfilling their earthly objective God would have removed it.

GOD is removing it because HE has NO use for it. Our free will choice was what was necessary for us to enter into a loving marriage relationship with HIM, not the evil results of some choosing to repudiate HIM for eternity.

We are told, Matt 13:27-30, that the judgement day (the final removal of all evil) had to be postponed because if it was called now, some of the elect but sinful people of the kingdom would be pulled up and burnt also.

It was the stubborn refusal of some of the good seed that forced the postponement of the judgement day NOT that the sins of the reprobate were needed for anything!

Matt 13:27 The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 28 ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. [a reference to the explanation of this parable, ie, no more metaphor, in verses 36-39]

So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ [to bring the judgement upon them?] 29 ‘NO!’ he said, [postpone the judgement because...] ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest.

The time of the harvest is the time of the maturity of the wheat and the only maturity that saves a sinner from the judgment is a mature holiness! Thus the sins of the good seed separated them from the holy elect and are the cause of the continued suffering of mankind on this earth.

 

[Blaise N]

Does God's plan require evil?

Well my friend,God uses what may be seen as evil for good.That may be a very hard concept to accept but that’s truth.In the Bible there is a story of a man named Job,Job was a devout man of God (Job 1:1),he proclaimed to everyone he’d trust God no matter what,he was wealthy and had a loving family.So God out of his love for him,decided to test Job,And allowed Satan to do whatever he wanted to Job but had one ultimatum,he wasn’t to kill Job.So for years,Jobs children died when a building collapsed on them,all his livestock died,he was stricken with painful boils and blisters,but never stopped trusting God.In the end,Job asks God why he was suffering.And instead of God answering Job.God saw it fit to teach Job his majesty,Such as asking him many things ranging from the heavens measurements,the beasts and fowls of the wild,etc(Job 38-41) But because job was humble and continued to Love and respect God.God rewarded him with twice his possessions prior to his testing.God uses all he does for Good.

 

[EdenSpeak]

The Bible tells us in 1 John 5:19 that, 'the Evil One controls the whole world', which isn't difficult to believe considering everyone seems to be singing from the same sheet music as we approach the tribulation. Want to explore what's really going on in this world (while considering a personal relationship with our precious Lord and Savior)? Read the page listed below, which is a one page primer, then follow the link to learn how the Evil One is using trickery and deception to fool the masses, even today.



Revelation's Forbidden Fruit: www.docdroid.net/1K2XvAX

 

[BobRyan]

Evil is absolutely necessary and was created by God because without evil there’s no cycle of life. Also without evil there’s no learning and the main purpose of this earthly life for us is to learn valuable lessons.

All of science is possible to "learn" without also choosing to murder. There is no reason sentient beings "need evil" in order to learn.

Good does not require a murder to exist.