Does God really *punish* nations based on whether or not they follow Christian values?

[bhsmte]

I was having cognitive dissonance about trying to look into, through or past the occult and things man has done to truth.



seems your have cognitive dissonance about everything else.

Could you define; cognitive dissonance for me?

 

[fat wee robin]

Everytime I read up on Scandinavian societies, I get jealous and think why are our politicians so backwards thinking. We are to be our brother's keeper, yet so many Americans who profess being Christian and act like Cain, sarcastically saying am I my brother's keeper?
An even greater danger to the soul than lack of pesonal generosity would be to allow the State to be the controller of morality ,and to take the place of individual charity,by
providing all that a person needs to survive .This is of course what Hitler offered,but
it was the communists who did it better . This led to the state becoming the Idol to which everyone had to bow ,and resulted in totalitarianism and the death of untold millions (60 ) who would not bow to this 'god'. The greyness of the society was like living in a tomb for the majority,and one could not leave the country .This is the ultimate fruit of atheism taken to it's conclusion .

Seriously. If we don't take care of one another, then who will take care of us???

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I don't follow any Church dogma. I follow scriptures. And in them I have shown that the city full of sodomites (aka homosexuals)

Homosexuals are not all sodomites and all sodomites are not homosexuals. I'm a guy who likes the ladies and I've enjoyed anal sex with those same ladies on several occasions.

was destroyed because of their grievous abominable sins arising to God. That it was destroyed because there weren't even ten righteous there.

an assumption on your part is no indication of facts on anyone elses's part.

And in fact, the angels that went there were going to be sexually molested by those disgusting people.

And the supposed actions of a group of marauders which could have been an isolated event is justification for condemning an entire subgroup of society

So God delivered the righteous, and destroyed the city. You just need a Bible, and a repentant humble heart to let the Word of God Speak to you. Otherwise, a person will simply continue in their gross sin, and then die. To most people I would think, that is something to consider and proving out, rather than arguing against, just to please their unnatural lusts whilst thumbing their nose at scriptures.

So you claim. If your God gave people a choice in the matter, why are you so intent on taking that choice away by denying the rights of others. Did your God make a mistake in giving these people the choice or are those of you who go beyond the perimeters set down by Jesus feel you are a wiser designator of righteousness..

 

[Cearbhall]

I don't follow any Church dogma. I follow scriptures. And in them I have shown that the city full of sodomites (aka homosexuals)

No, no. Again, that's not what the word means.

And I ask again, what exactly were you accusing me of when you called me a sodomite? Do you consider out-of-left-field name-calling to be a constructive debate tactic?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Imagine a country where 60% of the people are homosexual...

I'm not even a man, so I'm still not sure what she was accusing me of. Let's go with [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

I once blew the minds of these Christians by telling that I had had another man's nuts in my mouth. It wasn't until I explained that I was referring to the time a guy gave me his cashews that they were able to close their mouths.

It's astonishing how wrongness spreads exponentially when it is associated with an opposing view. It's surprising how readily the term tolerance enters the lexicon of the powerless. I remember back in the 70's when I first became aware of legitimate opposition to Christianity, the left always spoke of tolerance and now the right is resorting to that term because they have been removed from societies driver's seat. Our greatest danger is the become a hater of the haters and mimic their despotism now that we have the upper hand. I hope we never learn the skill of justifying our actions by meaningless terms like righteous and just.

I think it was Nietzsche who said that "Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one."

We can not afford to emulate the tactics of others who we know are wrong for vengeance sake. Revenge entraps it's seeker far more completely than the target.

 

[Chicken Little]

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.[1][2] Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. An individual who experiences inconsistency (dissonance) tends to become psychologically uncomfortable, and is motivated to try to reduce this dissonance—as well as actively avoid situations and information likely to increase it

thus the emotional and mental anguish when confronted with things you don't know already , or don't wish to know , or don't know you want to know .

Like Now I can't get my mind to understand how ancient truth fits our current understandings of biblical prophesy, or what it should be .
it hurts my brain emotionally to try and understand it right now .

so I like Put in another thread about Athiest and creationist ( think that was the thread) . truth is an emotion and a choice of the willingness of people to push through emotional pain to learn a thing of value . it was psalms where he was choosing to yet praise God in spite of his emotions . he was pushing through the pain to bring god's understanding ..
you sir don't choose to learn a new thing of value or you would have already. faith isn't blind, neither is it ignorant but what it has is it has the balls to face the pain to learn the new thing. to fight it out until it is understood.

now lies cost no pain now and thus they cheap and you can find them on every corner and people give them away free.. and will help a person remain shallow and have thus they( the lies ) have no gain and no value.

I mean God may have tried to teach you a lots of stuff but you won't feel it , you wont be obedient to it . to hear him
so you can be as shallow and flippant as you want to be and you are getting exactly what you want out of it, it cost you nothing and you have nothing. you really don't want to know because you haven't or you would know . because He promises he would teach us. if you knock he promises to answer.
and I have chosen to figure it out with him, we will go there ! but the full info is so new to me , and I am still struggling with it.. I really haven't had time to start that fight that arguing it out with reasoning and needing to change my ideas to search his word and to thus hear a new thing with HIM about it .. and learn from him how that ancient truth points to current events. and what that means to me ? my family ? , his church? the world ? these all take time listening and studying and it takes lots of pain because I guarantee it is a mine field of changes in ideas and ideals.

 

[bhsmte]

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.[1][2] Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. An individual who experiences inconsistency (dissonance) tends to become psychologically uncomfortable, and is motivated to try to reduce this dissonance—as well as actively avoid situations and information likely to increase it

thus the emotional and mental anguish when confronted with things you don't know already , or don't wish to know , or don't know you want to know .

Like Now I can't get my mind to understand how ancient truth fits our current understandings of biblical prophesy, or what it should be .
it hurts my brain emotionally to try and understand it right now .

so I like Put in another thread about Athiest and creationist ( think that was the thread) . truth is an emotion and a choice of the willingness of people to push through emotional pain to learn a thing of value . it was psalms where he was choosing to yet praise God in spite of his emotions . he was pushing through the pain to bring god's understanding ..
you sir don't choose to learn a new thing of value or you would have already. faith isn't blind, neither is it ignorant but what it has is it has the balls to face the pain to learn the new thing. to fight it out until it is understood.

now lies cost no pain now and thus they cheap and you can find them on every corner and people give them away free.. and will help a person remain shallow and have thus they( the lies ) have no gain and no value.

I mean God may have tried to teach you a lots of stuff but you won't feel it , you wont be obedient to it . to hear him
so you can be as shallow and flippant as you want to be and you are getting exactly what you want out of it, it cost you nothing and you have nothing. you really don't want to know because you haven't or you would know . because He promises he would teach us. if you knock he promises to answer.
and I have chosen to figure it out with him, we will go there ! but the full info is so new to me , and I am still struggling with it.. I really haven't had time to start that fight that arguing it out with reasoning and needing to change my ideas to search his word and to thus hear a new thing with HIM about it .. and learn from him how that ancient truth points to current events. and what that means to me ? my family ? , his church? the world ? these all take time listening and studying and it takes lots of pain because I guarantee it is a mine field of changes in ideas and ideals.

Ok, you claimed I was experiencing cognitive dissonance when I simply asked someone to support their statement.

Please explain to me how you reached this conclusion.

 

[RDKirk]

FWIW, that doesn't make sense to me. Cherry picking weather patterns is one thing--selective use of evidence. Natural disasters as proof of God's anger is not the same for one very obvious reason. Despite the use of the word "proof" it is not possible to prove whether a disaster is the result of God's anger or not.

Sure there is: Explicit warning or prophesy beforehand. Scripturally, such events were always prefaced by explicit warning or prophesy of imminent disaster.

 

[RDKirk]

Notice that the Lord cut off the communication, or he might have been so bold, who knows? But there wasn't even five righteous. Why would not God destroy an infestation with only four righteous? Their souls are saved in any case, and the earth is purged from the sodomite abominations. That is our only solace

That visit of the Lord to Abraham is extraordinarily remarkable in a number of ways, with the Lord permitting Abraham to admonish Him being one of the most remarkable aspects. I suspect if Moses had asked the Lord to give Lot more time for his righteous gateway judgments (2 Peter 2) to take hold--the same thing as Jesus' parable of the vineyard steward in Luke 13--that the Lord would have granted that request. He was there to do Abraham some favors.

 

[Winepress777]

...

 

[bhsmte]

That's why I don't give opinions. Only the Word of God. It is absolute. Naturally the sodomites hate it. If that is what you are saying, you are right.

Sure you give opinions. Your opinion of the word of God.

Other Christians have different opinions on the word of God and you have yours.

 

[Cearbhall]

Winepress777, again, what sodomites are you talking about? The only person in this thread who has mentioned engaging in "sodomy" is AHH, and he specified that it was heterosexual sex. None of the rest of us have even talked about our sexual preferences or practices at all, yet you seem to be accusing us of homosexual sodomy. Your accusations are unfounded and disrespectful. They add nothing to this discussion and certainly do not help your case.

 

[cjstabbo]

A lot of people are saying God will punish America because of the legalization of same-sex marriage. My question is..what does this mean in effect? Does this mean that if we go to war our jet fighters will somehow stop working mid-combat? Our guns will jam?

Does it mean our economy will implode? China will take over the world?

But then the question is...how will China take over the world? I mean China is a basically atheistic state...why would God bless them with power?

I'm pretty interested in history and it looks to me like powerful states have risen and fallen and it didn't really have to do with whether or not they followed Christian values. It has to do with things like...whether or not they have natural resources...how good their generals are...if they can build a good economy...if they can hold their territory. So I just think it's weird to say that God is involved here.

Look at the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was pagan. It was one of the greatest powers in all of history. It eventually converted to Christianity, but it was around that time that it started to weaken (not saying there is a correlation, just pointing out that it's the opposite of what someone who follows the "God blesses Christian states" idea would think. If that idea were true...Rome should have become EVEN MORE powerful at this point).

Look at the Arabic caliphate...I mean they conquered a giant area of territory and built a prosperous cultural and scientific civilization...and they were Muslims. They eventually fell due to the Mongols and Turks...more pagans. Was God helping the pagans?

Look at the Ottomans. They too built a prosperous civilization...which was Muslim.

I mean how did the Chinese ever build powerful civilizations? They were Taoist and Confucian and Buddhist.

I just don't see where God is involved here.

I mean the Dutch were a Christian civilization and they built a powerful trading empire...based on abuse of natives and trading slaves. Was God blessing them? I hope he wasn't blessing them in that...

It's very much just...civilizations who have natural resources, good economies, good armies, good generals etc. become successful and it seems to be independent of what religion they are following. That's the point I'm trying to make. They come and go...but that's just how it works!

Didn't Albert Einstein say "God doesn't play dice with the universe." Then later some physicist's said, oh wait he does.

As for the nations being directly affected by God I think it's in everyone's head. Lets say for instance homosexuality didn't exist and a giant flood killed 279 people in some part of the world that was christian. Wouldn't then the christian look for another excuse to make claims that God was punishing their sinful nation. (Like the porn industry caused it or the tobacco industry was responsible.)

You know what I think, if people want to stop sin so much then by all means we should do something. But we shouldn't palm our responsibility on a God who's done nothing but loved us, and put up with us for thousands and thousands of years.

 

[wing2000]

No.

But let me quote Jesus on that: "I tell thee, nay!"

At that time, some people came and reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. And He responded to them, “Do you think that these Galileans were more sinful than all Galileans because they suffered these things?

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as well! Or those eighteen that the tower in Siloam fell on and killed—do you think they were more sinful than all the people who live in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as well! -- Luke 13

The only nations God ever whacked for being evil or good were Israel and those countries that directly interacted with Israel in the OT. There is no indication in scripture or in history that God has any particular concern or respect for any other worldly nation.

Yes. ....but don't tell that to Evangelicals in this country who have been ignoring the scriptures on this topic for the last couple of decades.

 

[jsimms615]

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