Does God really choose people for success and leave others to suffer

[NW82]

Malachi 1:2, 3 seems to be that the Lord "preferred" Jacob and his descendants and "rejected" his brother Esau and his offspring. Why did He do this? The apostle Paul refers to this passage as an example of divine electing love (Romans 9:13). Does this mean that no matter what one does God simply rejects them?

 

[Winken]

NO! Salvation is by Grace through Faith, the Gift of God! One confesses Jesus as Savior, Romans 10:8-13, receiving then and there that one IS saved! Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound!

 

[NW82]

NO! Salvation is by Grace through Faith, the Gift of God! One confesses Jesus as Savior, Romans 10:8-13, receiving then and there that one IS saved! Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound!

Well that doesn't really address the verse from Malachi or what Paul said.

 

[Winken]

Well that doesn't really address the verse from Malachi or what Paul said.

There are no contradictions in scripture. The contextual conclusion is that Jesus paid it all, all to Him we owe, sin had left a crimson stain, HE washed it white as snow.

 

[NW82]

There are no contradictions in scripture. The contextual conclusion is that Jesus paid it all, all to Him we owe, sin had left a crimson stain, HE washed it white as snow.

But you aren't addressing divine electing love.

 

[Winken]

Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau (Malachi 1:3; Romans 9:13)?

 

[NW82]

Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau (Malachi 1:3; Romans 9:13)?

This basically says it was God's decision, and of story. The whole reason I asked this question is that my twin brother has everything and I'm alone all the time. I don't need a do this or do that speech. I've made efforts and prayed, etc with nothing changing. What I trying to figure out is why did God bless him and why does God want me to suffer.

 

[JIMINZ]

Malachi 1:2, 3 seems to be that the Lord "preferred" Jacob and his descendants and "rejected" his brother Esau and his offspring. Why did He do this? The apostle Paul refers to this passage as an example of divine electing love (Romans 9:13). Does this mean that no matter what one does God simply rejects them?

.
As Paul Harvey use to say, "And now here's the rest of the story"

Gen 25:21 And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
Gen 25:22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.
Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
Gen 25:24 And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
Gen 25:25 And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
Gen 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
Gen 25:27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.

Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[NW82]

.
As Paul Harvey use to say, "And now here's the rest of the story"

Gen 25:21 And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
Gen 25:22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.
Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
Gen 25:24 And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
Gen 25:25 And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
Gen 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
Gen 25:27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.

Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

That doesn't answer anything. You simply quoted scripture which doesn't change the context of the original question.

 

[Winken]

This basically says it was God's decision, and of story. The whole reason I asked this question is that my twin brother has everything and I'm alone all the time. I don't need a do this or do that speech. I've made efforts and prayed, etc with nothing changing. What I trying to figure out is why did God bless him and why does God want me to suffer.

Yes, since Abraham’s son Ishmael was not of the chosen line, and since Abraham’s grandson Esau was not of the chosen line, a more accurate placement of the division of Jews from Gentiles would be with Jacob, whose name was changed by God to Israel (Genesis 32:28). All of the descendants of Jacob, through his 12 sons (the fathers of the 12 tribes of Israel), were members of God’s chosen nation.

How does one apply that to you in your situation? What happened, if anything, to cause your twin to be more "successful" than you are? Was it a lineage thing? Was there a family conflict? You are the only one who can answer those questions.

God most certainly did not choose him over you. It is an important, vital thing for you, a Christian, to not linger in anger or grief, or hold animosity for your brother. We cast all our cares upon Him, knowing that the Holy Spirit dwells within each Christian, hearing our every prayer.

 

[NW82]

Yes, since Abraham’s son Ishmael was not of the chosen line, and since Abraham’s grandson Esau was not of the chosen line, a more accurate placement of the division of Jews from Gentiles would be with Jacob, whose name was changed by God to Israel (Genesis 32:28). All of the descendants of Jacob, through his 12 sons (the fathers of the 12 tribes of Israel), were members of God’s chosen nation.

How does one apply that to you in your situation? What happened, if anything, to cause your twin to be more "successful" than you are? Was it a lineage thing? Was there a family conflict? You are the only one who can answer those questions.

God most certainly did not choose him over you. It is an important, vital thing for you, a Christian, to not linger in anger or grief, or hold animosity for your brother. We cast all our cares upon Him, knowing that the Holy Spirit dwells within each Christian, hearing our every prayer.

I don't hold any anger toward my brother. Why do people on this site always assume? No one simply takes words at their meaning. I'm trying to understand why God wants me to suffer, end of story.

 

[Winken]

I don't hold any anger toward my brother. Why do people on this site always assume? No one simply takes words at their meaning. I'm trying to understand why God wants me to suffer, end of story.

God does not want you to suffer. He has saved you for eternity.

 

[NW82]

God does not want you to suffer. He has saved you for eternity.

Salvation for eternity has nothing to do with current earthly suffering.

 

[A_Thinker]

Malachi 1:2, 3 seems to be that the Lord "preferred" Jacob and his descendants and "rejected" his brother Esau and his offspring. Why did He do this? The apostle Paul refers to this passage as an example of divine electing love (Romans 9:13). Does this mean that no matter what one does God simply rejects them?

God CHOSE Jacob for His service (i.e. to father the nation of Israel).

Esau, although "UNCHOSEN" by God, was BLESSED by God with much wealth and family.

And Esau's brotherly spirit led him to FORGIVE his brother Jacob for his sins against him ...

Genesis 33

1 And Jacob lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, Esau came, and with him four hundred men. And he divided the children unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two handmaids.

2 And he put the handmaids and their children foremost, and Leah and her children after, and Rachel and Joseph hindermost.

3 And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

4 And Esau ran to meet him, and embraced him, and fell on his neck, and kissed him: and they wept.

5 And he lifted up his eyes, and saw the women and the children; and said, Who are those with thee? And he said, The children which God hath graciously given thy servant.

6 Then the handmaidens came near, they and their children, and they bowed themselves.

7 And Leah also with her children came near, and bowed themselves: and after came Joseph near and Rachel, and they bowed themselves.

8 And he said, What meanest thou by all this drove which I met? And he said, These are to find grace in the sight of my lord.

9 And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself.


God has a plan for your brother, ... but He also has a plan for you.

Your task is to find what God has for you, ... and then it will be evident that God's blessing rests upon BOTH of you ...

Look to the gifts that God has given to you. You have them, but you may be disdaining/not recognizing them because you have your eyes upon your brother. Take your eyes off of your brother, ...place your eyes upon Jesus, ... and pray that God reveals to you what His will is for you.

 

[JIMINZ]

We have in the Bible, the list of the descendants of Abraham, the lineage of Christ.

God chose who He wanted to be in that lineage, God had made a promise to Abraham concerning the Messiah, Jesus.

That through the seed of Abraham would all the nations of the earth be blessed.

Gen. 12:3
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Gen. 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Gen. 28:14
And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

God therefore chose who He wanted to carry the seed from Abraham all the way to Jesus the Christ.

We then cannot take this or any other such verse and apply it to ourselves or our lives.

We are who we are, and those in our respective family's are just as much themselves as we are.

God has not, nor did He choose to bless your brother over you, you have become the person you are because of who you are, it isn't that God made you less and squashed your future while exulting your brother.

Life is what it is God does not micro manage our lives, the things that happen in our live just happen.

Mat. 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Your life is more than all of the things your brother has acquired, your life is in Christ, you are a Child of God you are a child of the King. you have Eternal life in you, you will never die, you will live with God and Jesus FOREVER! ! ! !

Everything else is temporal.

 

[Haipule]

Malachi 1:2, 3 seems to be that the Lord "preferred" Jacob and his descendants and "rejected" his brother Esau and his offspring. Why did He do this? The apostle Paul refers to this passage as an example of divine electing love (Romans 9:13). Does this mean that no matter what one does God simply rejects them?

God made a promise to people, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and that's all! Those promises are independent of externals. He keeps His promises no matter what! Keeping His promises to them has NOTHING whatsoever with anyone else! Yet, they CANNOT keep God from His promise TO THOSE to whom He made the promise!

You, my good friend, have NO authority to read anything else AT ALL into that!

Your relationship to God is between you and God only! It has NOTHING to do with your brother! DON'T GET SIDETRACT!

 

[JIMINZ]

That doesn't answer anything. You simply quoted scripture which doesn't change the context of the original question.

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The context was, God chose one brother over the other for His purpose in the earth to be fulfilled.

You and your brother do not fall into that category.

What I hear more than anything else is poor me I have been dumped on, and my brother has prospered.

I hear that you are jealous of your brothers achievements, what held you back, what stopped you from having your own achievements?

You have asked advice about a piece of Scripture which does not pertain to you nor anyone else ever, except Esau, and Jacob.

You have not given the details of you situation, we only know that you do not have what your brother has, well let me clue you in, I don't have what my brother or sister have had in their lives, but I am a Christian and have Salvation.

 

[Dirk1540]

Malachi 1:2, 3 seems to be that the Lord "preferred" Jacob and his descendants and "rejected" his brother Esau and his offspring. Why did He do this? The apostle Paul refers to this passage as an example of divine electing love (Romans 9:13). Does this mean that no matter what one does God simply rejects them?

I find the grace vs free will argument to be a brain teasing matter of God being able to tell the future, being able to tell every decision you will ever make before you are even born. Therefore it can be viewed as 'Predestined Grace' in one perspective (God's), and free will decision from another perspective (ours). I find that I have to let go of some brain teasers. Before the theory of relativity how many people through the years freaked out about the illogical contradiction that a day can be like 1,000 years? Now today, science confirms that 2 people can be in 2 separate sections of the universe and they will drastically age differently! One person's clock will have 2 seconds pass by and the other 2 months. But still, even though I live in 2017 and now that time relativity is confirmed, it still makes my head want to explode because I can't understand it. I have also let go of trying to figure out one God yet different entities of it, like Jesus and God the father. I can't even comprehend calculus I don't stand a chance comprehending these God concepts.

 

[NW82]

Gotta love all the assumptions around here. The initial question had to do with divine electing love. There is no jealousy or anger. I simply want to find out why I am doomed too be alone the rest off my life? Meaning why did God allow the circumstances for my ex-wife to cheat on me and now I'm alone and no one woman will ever want anything to drop with me. I don't need any crap from anyone as I get that enough. It's as simple question

 

[Dirk1540]

Gotta love all the assumptions around here. The initial question had to do with divine electing love. There is no jealousy or anger. I simply want to find out why I am doomed too be alone the rest off my life? Meaning why did God allow the circumstances for my ex-wife to cheat on me and now I'm alone and no one woman will ever want anything to drop with me. I don't need any crap from anyone as I get that enough. It's as simple question

I read the OP as confusion about divine elect love (for Jacob) vs divine rejection (Essau). I read the OP as confusion about election vs free will to be excepted for love. Yeah maybe I read it wrong.