Does God really avenge us when others do evil against us

[Bible Highlighter]

But there will be a Judgment. Nobody will get away with anything. However, we have to accept that men can be forgiven of the most vile and horrible sins. We have to accept the fact that we have to forgive and seek to love and pray for our enemies. Why? Because God is love.

 

[quietpraiyze]

This is something I've struggled with. I've seen people do great evil due to their selfishness and jealousy. Have you seen God avenge as Scripture says? How have you handled this?

Yes I've seen it on a couple of occasions. One occasion was precipitated by God giving me Psalm 18. On another occasion I literally felt the protection of the Lord. I'm not going to give details but I know for truth that God is not silent or idle when someone harms us and our family. I used to think God wouldn't stand up for me because some people made me feel like I was less than them but I've seen some "things" happen. They were not coincidences and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God will make the wrongs right not only in the world to come but in this life also. What I know to be true is that forgiveness many times is a process and you sound like you're in that process. Don't ever think that God doesn't know your pain.

 

[Vicomte13]

This is something I've struggled with. I've seen people do great evil due to their selfishness and jealousy. Have you seen God avenge as Scripture says? How have you handled this?

The problem of evil is this: if we obey Scripture to the letter, do not retaliate when evil is done to us, do not repay violence with violence, turn the other cheek, etc., the Axis conquers the world in World War II, all of the Jews, Gypsies, Gays and cripples are gassed, and we just trust that God will make it right in the afterlife.

As nations - sinful nations at that (racial segregationists in America, violent imperialists in England, France, Holland, Belgium) - we did not trust God enough to wait on his justice. We retaliated, very, very violently, we flattened cities in response to their violence, we crushed our enemies, drove them off our shores, and occupied them instead.

To have done nothing, borne this evil, stayed out of politics, and essentially permitted a new "Roman Empire" to have conquered us rather than kill some 30 million people, most of them civilians, in war and its effects, would have been in keeping exactly with what Christ said.

The bulk of our people - American, British, French, Dutch, Belgian, Canadian, Australian, New Zealander, etc., decided that waiting on God and trusting he would have made it right - or accepting the scourge of Axis conquest as the justice due to us for being evil nations - was not acceptable. We did not turn the other cheek, we retaliated violently, and we won.

It would have been more christlike to have surrendered at the outset. I have no intention of ever being that Christlike. Yes, God COULD intervene and make it right, and sometimes he does. Perhaps all of our nations are too objectively evil for him to intervene on behalf of ANY of them in the modern world. That's probably the case.

Given that, our choices are to not turn the other cheek and repay violence with greater violence, so that we and our children live at the price of them and their children dying, or we accept conquest and death and look to the world to come for justice.

True faith would be to do the latter, at least if one takes Christ literally - or Paul for that matter. If I were living in the First Century and Saul before his conversion came to haul away MY children for torment and death I would have killed the evil jerk with my bare hands and considered it justice.

Jesus would not have considered it justice...maybe. Then again, maybe he would have. God did, after all, ultimately grant victory to the allies, and to the North over the South, and to the Christians over the Romans. But he also granted victory, in the East, to the Muslims over the Christians.

If you "Let go and let God", throughout history, you are very likely to see your children fed to the lions.
Now, perhaps everything is fine in the end, if we trust God they come through their ordeal martyrs and are happy in heaven, and the people who fed them to the lions are punished.

I don't trust God that much, and it is asking far too much of me to sit by, ably bodied, while the evil violently take over the world. So, with all due respect, Jesus, I WILL kill the enemies who are coming to kill me and mine. I will kill them if I can, and turn the violence back on them, destroy THEIR cities instead of letting them destroy mine, and turn back their evil. I will not turn the other cheek with regard to the armed robber and the human trafficker and the invader: I will violently destroy them, even though you said not to, and then I will ask you, Lord, to remember that you made me that way.

We should obey the Law of God and listen to our parents. But sometimes that will not work. When you're facing the Third Reich or your children fed to the lions, it is entirely too much to ask of me, Lord, to turn the other cheek and wait for your justice. Fight now. Kill the evil now. And after having done so, to protect mine, I will ask your forgiveness.

Obedience to a forgiving God is not worth letting the Axis win. You disobey God, kill the Nazis, and then repent of your disobedience and ask for forgiveness. He forgave Paul for murdering the innocent, he will forgive me for murdering the monsters and their innocent children also.

I hope that's true. If it's not, well, too bad for me: the Bible says... is not a strong enough argument to let the Axis or the Communists or the human traffickers or the drug lords, or Saul of Tarsus, win. I will not turn the other cheek to the murderers. I will kill them first. And God will forgive us for that, or not, either way, men have to do what they have to do, and the man who lets his family be killed is not a good shepherd. Neither would the God be who punished the man for defending them. I think God is good, therefore, I fully expect that he will forgive.

Sometimes you can't do what Jesus would do, because letting your family die and your country be conquered by monsters is not an acceptable option.

 

[angeltrue]

But there will be a Judgment. Nobody will get away with anything. However, we have to accept that men can be forgiven of the most vile and horrible sins. We have to accept the fact that we have to forgive and seek to love and pray for our enemies. Why? Because God is love.

Yes but what if the evil is really great - such as murder, rape, or equivalent?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes but what if the evil is really great - such as murder, rape, or equivalent?

It doesn’t change anything. We have to still forgive if we want to be forgiven by God (Matthew 6:15). For hating our brother is considered as murder according to 1 John 3:15. Lustful thoughts is considered as the act of sexual unfaithfulness according to Matthew 5:28-30.

Can you imagine if you grew up in country that forced you to murder since even when you were a child? What if you grew up in a family that was a part of a Satanic cult that murdered or raped people? Then one day, the message of Jesus Christ and his salvation (forgiveness) was offered to you. Can we say that God’s love is not for you if you grew up in one of these other scenarios for your life? Surely not. God’s forgiveness is for all. For God so loved the world.

Sit down and take a sheet of paper out and write down all the sins you did against God in your old life. Write down how all your sins may have hurt others and God. Can we say we are better? For there are many who suffer in pain right now in our own city. They are cold and hungry and have no love. By our ignoring them, we are in a way murdering them while we lay comfortably in our own homes. Today, 200 were killed in Syria and over 700 were wounded. How comfortable we are here in America while others die and suffer. Think. This life is a test. A test to show God that we want His love to transform our life by allowing Him to work more within our life that goes outside our comfort zone. Sometimes we think we are better than others. But we are not.

Jesus says this to one of the churches in Revelation:

“Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked” (Revelation 3:17).

 

[Sabertooth]

The problem of evil is this: if we obey Scripture to the letter, do not retaliate when evil is done to us, do not repay violence with violence, turn the other cheek, etc., the Axis conquers the world in World War II,...

I believe that to be a mis-application of Scripture. It applies to individuals (under certain conditions), but not to those whose job is to provide security for others.

 

[Ronald]

Cancer of the stomach could be purely coincidental, or because John had committed adultery, which is a sin of course and we know that the Wages of Sin is Death (Ezekiel 18:4, Romans 6:23).

A friend of mine left a religious cult after 3 and a half years of hell. They tried to discourage him from leaving, and told him that his future partner would suffer from breast cancer (or other ailments) should he break his marriage vows inside the 'church' - As it is presumed that his new situation outside the cult would an adulterous relationship with somebody whom God did not approve.

Apparently, they cited case histories of ex-members to support their ominous warning not to leave the church.

A case in point would be the example of Steve Hassan who was a leader in the Unification Church until his road traffic accident, which rendered him unconscious with both his legs broken and in hospital.

Whilst in hospital he had no further contact with members of the cult, which enabled his dad to hire an exit counsellor to 'deprogramme' his son from the cult.

Subsequently, Steve obtained his MBA from the Harvard Business School and he himself became America's foremost exit counsellor and one of the Chief adversaries of the church.

However, he did briefly mention that his fiance outside the church had suddenly died, which could be purely coincidental, or because he had broken his marriage vows in the cult.

Of course, the cult will use examples such as Steve as propaganda for the sake of "moral high ground", and to discourage its members from leaving the Church.

They will use Steve et al to 'demonstrate' that their leader is the "Messiah, Son of God, and the Second Coming of Christ"; since he was allegedly punished because he left the Church (in opposition to "God's will"), and the death of his spouse/fiancé simply goes to show that their god is 'real'.

However, they have never claimed that the same fate would befall everyone who left the cult - Since it is known that so called 'marriage' in the church is not legally recognized and the members are still required to undergo civil marriage to (legally) validate their union inside the cult; but some members have left the cult long before their civil union, so that not all the ex-members would be guilty of adultery should they contract relationships outside the cult.

Since Christianity teaches that "Marriage is indissoluble until death of one or both partners in the relationship", but not all these marriages are validated by civil unions, which means that they are not de jure married.

If anything, such few cases of "breast cancer" does not serve to demonstrate that the leader of this organisation is God - Although that is what they would like to think, and they will use it as propaganda - but all it serves is to demonstrate that the real God of Christianity is sovereign, which is made manifest by such examples of divine punishment.

For the wages of sin is death - Death being figurative to denote punishment in one form or another. Ezekiel 18:4, Romans 6:23

Clearly, God's law is still to be reckoned, whether or not the marriage is contracted in the cult.

Edit: Sorry, if this seems off topic; but my point was simply to illustrate that such cases of illnesses could well be attributed to the sins of those suffering the ailments (Which implies that the God of Christianity is the ultimate cause of their punishment); but the law of God is still subject to abuse, misuse, or misinterpretation by religious sects who will try to take "credit" for such illness, and they will use it to 'prove' that their leader is the "Messiah or Second Coming of Christ etc"; but we know that this has got nothing to do with their cult, but it has everything to do with Christianity, and the idea that each person will be rewarded by their works, whether good or evil.

I don't believe in coincidences. A game of chance, the roll of a dice and insignificant events yes, but not significant events that change your life. God allows things to happen for a purpose. So whether illness or apparent accident, it doesn't get by the approval of God. Remember Job? Satan could not destroy his life until he got approval from God. But God said, Do not destroy him personally. But everything around him was destroyed: his family, livestock, riches and then he himself suffered physically with boils. All this to test his faith.
The story of Joni Eareckson Tada is another amazing story. We never know what God has in store for us or how we will finish the race. Sometimes your life is turned upside down, the world rattled, your riches or health depleted, because God has a plan for everyone of us.
Accepting that some event is just a coincidence implies He is not in control and accidents are somehow outside of his control. Then He would have to say, Oh my, look at what has happened to Blackhawk, now I have to refigure my plan for him.

 

[Poppyseed78]

My answer to the thread title is: I sure hope so lol.

 

[Sabertooth]

..., but not to those whose job is to provide security for others.

Compare:
"And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.

But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword." Matthew 26:51-52 NKJV

And:
"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil." Romans 13:1-4 NKJV

 

[angeltrue]

Yes I've seen it on a couple of occasions. One occasion was precipitated by God giving me Psalm 18. On another occasion I literally felt the protection of the Lord. I'm not going to give details but I know for truth that God is not silent or idle when someone harms us and our family. I used to think God wouldn't stand up for me because some people made me feel like I was less than them but I've seen some "things" happen. They were not coincidences and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God will make the wrongs right not only in the world to come but in this life also. What I know to be true is that forgiveness many times is a process and you sound like you're in that process. Don't ever think that God doesn't know your pain.

Yes I would say I'm in a process - in one instance. I have had people jealous of what I have - although they don't know how hard I've had to work - they didn't put in the effort yet were jealous that I did. My ex-family is bad - they're selfish, disgusting people. The older two "gems" as my mother called them, moved back home with their husband and kids creating horrible overcrowding. Because I complained my mother asked me to move out at age 17. I rushed into a marriage I was unsuited to - I was literally thrown to the wolves and it has not been the best life. Reconnecting with that scumbag family was the worst mistake of my life. I always wanted a close family but they aren't good people for relationships - they're too selfish. None of them have any friends - they're just disgusting.

Later, my oldest ex- sister did unspeakable evil to one of my children because she was jealous - my brother said "she wants your family to be as screwed up as hers." After that I refused to allow her near my family. I was still in touch with the youngest sister. I had shared my adult children's phone numbers with her, but repeatedly told her to NOT contact my children when my father passed away - she knew I didn't want my children near the oldest witch. She turned out to be as much of a witch as the other one. She contacted my children and got my one daughter to go to the funeral where the oldest witch was - against my wishes. It caused a blowout of epic proportions in my family, so I told the youngest sister to NOT contact my children again. She said "YOU don't get it! I contact WHO I want!" So I went back at her because I'm a fighter and I will always protect my children. She never had her own children and thought she could move in on mine. They're a sick sick bunch. I should have left at 17 and never looked back.

She was the Executrix and told me that she was going to keep money my father left me - which was around $80 - $100k. I told her I saved her text and would hold her criminally and civilly liable.

I was sent the paperwork to sign and the lawyer she hired took thousands from my share for alleged "loans" - which weren't loans and she didn't have the authority to do that - we're friends with a judge. So I refused to sign it. We spent the next 7 months with her lawyer unlawfully threatening that if I didn't sign the paperwork deducting thousands from my share they'd take me to court and take out double that. So I went back at him hard and refused to back down - I've had to fight my way through everything in this life. Then the witch sister ABUSED the contact information I had given her and contacted my children and daughter-in-law through Facebook, email, and text denigrating me and trying to manipulate my children to push me to sign her corrupt paperwork! It was unreal.She's sick. That whole family is. So they knew they had no legal standing so sent me the correct paperwork. The lawyer racked up charges over 7 months for threatening me and the youngest blew the estate money just to try to harm me and lied about it to the others.

I filed a complaint and went to court. The youngest brought the evil oldest to court and I had to see the person who did the worst thing to me in my life. The daughter who the oldest did the evil to said that was meant to harm. So I didn't think I'd get justice because the witch hired the top lawyer around. We don't like the lawyer because he made a nasty crack about our son - he always acted like he was better than everybody else - and I told him everyone knew his son was dealing drugs in town - now his son is a lawyer. He threatened to sue me. He thought it okay to denigrate someone else's child but don't dare say a word about his little lawbreaker son. I was shaking because I didn't think I'd get justice and I was up against the sister-liar and her crooked lawyer, but the judge was really nice to me and let me speak and when the corrupt lawyer stood up and tried to speak she shot him down and said "I don't need to hear anything from you!" She knew what he did was illegal. So I felt God helped me because the lawyer and the two witch sisters slid out of there like the snakes they are.

So now I still haven't received my money. But I was sorry I ever shared my children's contact information with the one sister - I didn't think she would do what she did. But they're all from the same selfish family that I tried so hard to keep away from. I don't know why God put me in that ugly bunch - it makes no sense to me. I asked God that even after I die that He keep them away from me. I just don't understand anything. Nothing makes sense.

The oldest did the most evil and she's sneaky and manipulative and she did such horrendous evil and yet God doesn't seem to take action against her and I can't understand why. I know something that they did that I could report but it's pretty heavy and would entangle her ugly family. I went to do it once and held back. How do I know what action to take? I've prayed but nothing comes clear.

How am I to cope when someone does something staggeringly evil? Would you call police and report the sister harassing my children? Would you report the sister and her lawyer for fraud? If so - to who?

This is only one of several times my family has been seriously wronged and yet I don't see God punish the wicked. I've read Romans, Psalm 73 - I know it all yet it doesn't cut it. Is it I'm thinking the wrong way about this - should I dismiss the questioning thoughts that tell me God isn't answering? And when should WE act as opposed to letting God handle something? I really struggle with that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes I would say I'm in a process - in one instance. I have had people jealous of what I have - although they don't know how hard I've had to work - they didn't put in the effort yet were jealous that I did. My ex-family is bad - they're selfish, disgusting people. The older two "gems" as my mother called them, moved back home with their husband and kids creating horrible overcrowding. Because I complained my mother asked me to move out at age 17. I rushed into a marriage I was unsuited to - I was literally thrown to the wolves and it has not been the best life. Reconnecting with that scumbag family was the worst mistake of my life. I always wanted a close family but they aren't good people for relationships - they're too selfish. None of them have any friends - they're just disgusting.

Later, my oldest ex- sister did unspeakable evil to one of my children because she was jealous - my brother said "she wants your family to be as screwed up as hers." After that I refused to allow her near my family. I was still in touch with the youngest sister. I had shared my adult children's phone numbers with her, but repeatedly told her to NOT contact my children when my father passed away - she knew I didn't want my children near the oldest witch. She turned out to be as much of a witch as the other one. She contacted my children and got my one daughter to go to the funeral where the oldest witch was - against my wishes. It caused a blowout of epic proportions in my family, so I told the youngest sister to NOT contact my children again. She said "YOU don't get it! I contact WHO I want!" So I went back at her because I'm a fighter and I will always protect my children. She never had her own children and thought she could move in on mine. They're a sick sick bunch. I should have left at 17 and never looked back.

She was the Executrix and told me that she was going to keep money my father left me - which was around $80 - $100k. I told her I saved her text and would hold her criminally and civilly liable.

I was sent the paperwork to sign and the lawyer she hired took thousands from my share for alleged "loans" - which weren't loans and she didn't have the authority to do that - we're friends with a judge. So I refused to sign it. We spent the next 7 months with her lawyer unlawfully threatening that if I didn't sign the paperwork deducting thousands from my share they'd take me to court and take out double that. So I went back at him hard and refused to back down - I've had to fight my way through everything in this life. Then the witch sister ABUSED the contact information I had given her and contacted my children and daughter-in-law through Facebook, email, and text denigrating me and trying to manipulate my children to push me to sign her corrupt paperwork! It was unreal.She's sick. That whole family is. So they knew they had no legal standing so sent me the correct paperwork. The lawyer racked up charges over 7 months for threatening me and the youngest blew the estate money just to try to harm me and lied about it to the others.

I filed a complaint and went to court. The youngest brought the evil oldest to court and I had to see the person who did the worst thing to me in my life. The daughter who the oldest did the evil to said that was meant to harm. So I didn't think I'd get justice because the witch hired the top lawyer around. We don't like the lawyer because he made a nasty crack about our son - he always acted like he was better than everybody else - and I told him everyone knew his son was dealing drugs in town - now his son is a lawyer. He threatened to sue me. He thought it okay to denigrate someone else's child but don't dare say a word about his little lawbreaker son. I was shaking because I didn't think I'd get justice and I was up against the sister-liar and her crooked lawyer, but the judge was really nice to me and let me speak and when the corrupt lawyer stood up and tried to speak she shot him down and said "I don't need to hear anything from you!" She knew what he did was illegal. So I felt God helped me because the lawyer and the two witch sisters slid out of there like the snakes they are.

So now I still haven't received my money. But I was sorry I ever shared my children's contact information with the one sister - I didn't think she would do what she did. But they're all from the same selfish family that I tried so hard to keep away from. I don't know why God put me in that ugly bunch - it makes no sense to me. I asked God that even after I die that He keep them away from me. I just don't understand anything. Nothing makes sense.

The oldest did the most evil and she's sneaky and manipulative and she did such horrendous evil and yet God doesn't seem to take action against her and I can't understand why. I know something that they did that I could report but it's pretty heavy and would entangle her ugly family. I went to do it once and held back. How do I know what action to take? I've prayed but nothing comes clear.

How am I to cope when someone does something staggeringly evil? Would you call police and report the sister harassing my children? Would you report the sister and her lawyer for fraud? If so - to who?

This is only one of several times my family has been seriously wronged and yet I don't see God punish the wicked. I've read Romans, Psalm 73 - I know it all yet it doesn't cut it. Is it I'm thinking the wrong way about this - should I dismiss the questioning thoughts that tell me God isn't answering? And when should WE act as opposed to letting God handle something? I really struggle with that.

The best course of action is to continually pray so as to be released from any toxic people in your life. But you have to forgive them no matter what evil they do upon you or continue to do. We have to forgive. But we should find ways to not make ourselves open to further attacks. There are ways to disappear if you are relocating with your loved ones. Just keep your family that you consider to be selfish in your prayers. Pray for them. Pray that God changes their hearts. Even if that may never happen. Still... pray for them. I know I will.

May the Lord keep you strong in His Word.

 

[angeltrue]

The problem of evil is this: if we obey Scripture to the letter, do not retaliate when evil is done to us, do not repay violence with violence, turn the other cheek, etc., the Axis conquers the world in World War II, all of the Jews, Gypsies, Gays and cripples are gassed, and we just trust that God will make it right in the afterlife.

As nations - sinful nations at that (racial segregationists in America, violent imperialists in England, France, Holland, Belgium) - we did not trust God enough to wait on his justice. We retaliated, very, very violently, we flattened cities in response to their violence, we crushed our enemies, drove them off our shores, and occupied them instead.

To have done nothing, borne this evil, stayed out of politics, and essentially permitted a new "Roman Empire" to have conquered us rather than kill some 30 million people, most of them civilians, in war and its effects, would have been in keeping exactly with what Christ said.

The bulk of our people - American, British, French, Dutch, Belgian, Canadian, Australian, New Zealander, etc., decided that waiting on God and trusting he would have made it right - or accepting the scourge of Axis conquest as the justice due to us for being evil nations - was not acceptable. We did not turn the other cheek, we retaliated violently, and we won.

It would have been more christlike to have surrendered at the outset. I have no intention of ever being that Christlike. Yes, God COULD intervene and make it right, and sometimes he does. Perhaps all of our nations are too objectively evil for him to intervene on behalf of ANY of them in the modern world. That's probably the case.

Given that, our choices are to not turn the other cheek and repay violence with greater violence, so that we and our children live at the price of them and their children dying, or we accept conquest and death and look to the world to come for justice.

True faith would be to do the latter, at least if one takes Christ literally - or Paul for that matter. If I were living in the First Century and Saul before his conversion came to haul away MY children for torment and death I would have killed the evil jerk with my bare hands and considered it justice.

Jesus would not have considered it justice...maybe. Then again, maybe he would have. God did, after all, ultimately grant victory to the allies, and to the North over the South, and to the Christians over the Romans. But he also granted victory, in the East, to the Muslims over the Christians.

If you "Let go and let God", throughout history, you are very likely to see your children fed to the lions.
Now, perhaps everything is fine in the end, if we trust God they come through their ordeal martyrs and are happy in heaven, and the people who fed them to the lions are punished.

I don't trust God that much, and it is asking far too much of me to sit by, ably bodied, while the evil violently take over the world. So, with all due respect, Jesus, I WILL kill the enemies who are coming to kill me and mine. I will kill them if I can, and turn the violence back on them, destroy THEIR cities instead of letting them destroy mine, and turn back their evil. I will not turn the other cheek with regard to the armed robber and the human trafficker and the invader: I will violently destroy them, even though you said not to, and then I will ask you, Lord, to remember that you made me that way.

We should obey the Law of God and listen to our parents. But sometimes that will not work. When you're facing the Third Reich or your children fed to the lions, it is entirely too much to ask of me, Lord, to turn the other cheek and wait for your justice. Fight now. Kill the evil now. And after having done so, to protect mine, I will ask your forgiveness.

Obedience to a forgiving God is not worth letting the Axis win. You disobey God, kill the Nazis, and then repent of your disobedience and ask for forgiveness. He forgave Paul for murdering the innocent, he will forgive me for murdering the monsters and their innocent children also.

I hope that's true. If it's not, well, too bad for me: the Bible says... is not a strong enough argument to let the Axis or the Communists or the human traffickers or the drug lords, or Saul of Tarsus, win. I will not turn the other cheek to the murderers. I will kill them first. And God will forgive us for that, or not, either way, men have to do what they have to do, and the man who lets his family be killed is not a good shepherd. Neither would the God be who punished the man for defending them. I think God is good, therefore, I fully expect that he will forgive.

Sometimes you can't do what Jesus would do, because letting your family die and your country be conquered by monsters is not an acceptable option.

You've thought deeply of this - as I have. I probably would have attacked Saul too - or anyone else trying to harm my family. This is what tears at my mind. When do you follow God and turn the other cheek - and when is it right to fight?

I think there is a lot of bad teaching in Christianity over this. I recall reading the sister of Sharon Tate - the actress murdered by Manson and his followers - forgave them. But doesn't scripture say "IF they repent forgive them?"

I wonder when it's right to NOT extend forgiveness. It would be foolish to allow my children around someone who can do them harm - indeed someone who wishes them harm because of her own miserable life she can't stand seeing someone else happy. But why won't God act? Why? Why won't He just show me that she didn't get away with the evil she did? He withholds it and I've prayed over and over and over - and nothing but silence. This is what I can't come to terms with. Where is God when I pray and He doesn't answer? Why doesn't He answer? Am I to have faith and just dismiss those thoughts?

I did have something happen one time. A situation happened and someone did evil and I didn't get an answer right away, but a few years later I learned the person was fired - arrested for theft. So I saw God act that time, yet in the above case I didn't. It doesn't make sense.

God put justice in our hearts - we desire it - so how could He deny us from getting it? Scripture said God is a God of Justice - yet do we see this? Not always in my experience. So what do you do with that?

I'm not a baby Christian - I've been a believer for many years and I'm facing this full-on and asking God why His answers aren't coming. I don't want to make lame excuses for God. Evil was done and He should act.

 

[angeltrue]

The best course of action is to continually pray so as to be released from any toxic people in your life. But you have to forgive them no matter what evil they do upon you or continue to do. We have to forgive. But we should find ways to not make ourselves open to further attacks. There are ways to disappear if you are relocating with your loved ones. Just keep your family that you consider to be selfish in your prayers. Pray for them. Pray that God changes their hearts. Even if that may never happen. Still... pray for them. I know I will.

May the Lord keep you strong in His Word.

I don't want to waste my time praying for them - why should I? I'd rather pray for people who deserve it - like my neighbor, or people in my church. I don't like the thought of her being able to contact my family and I regret giving her their phone numbers. Would you report it to police for peace of mind? I'm trying to decide what the best thing to do is. My husband said not to do anything until I get my money in my hands but it sickens me and I want her to know I'm not going to let her get by with harassing my family.

 

[angeltrue]

It doesn’t change anything. We have to still forgive if we want to be forgiven by God (Matthew 6:15). For hating our brother is considered as murder according to 1 John 3:15. Lustful thoughts is considered as the act of sexual unfaithfulness according to Matthew 5:28-30.

Can you imagine if you grew up in country that forced you to murder since even when you were a child? What if you grew up in a family that was a part of a Satanic cult that murdered or raped people? Then one day, the message of Jesus Christ and his salvation (forgiveness) was offered to you. Can we say that God’s love is not for you if you grew up in one of these other scenarios for your life? Surely not. God’s forgiveness is for all. For God so loved the world.

Sit down and take a sheet of paper out and write down all the sins you did against God in your old life. Write down how all your sins may have hurt others and God. Can we say we are better? For there are many who suffer in pain right now in our own city. They are cold and hungry and have no love. By our ignoring them, we are in a way murdering them while we lay comfortably in our own homes. Today, 200 were killed in Syria and over 700 were wounded. How comfortable we are here in America while others die and suffer. Think. This life is a test. A test to show God that we want His love to transform our life by allowing Him to work more within our life that goes outside our comfort zone. Sometimes we think we are better than others. But we are not.

Jesus says this to one of the churches in Revelation:

“Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked” (Revelation 3:17).

Yes but those who participated in such evil should still be held accountable. I know I have sinned yet I try never to hurt anyone while others seem to be able to do it without consequence.

This is an issue that has always tripped me up - I'm unsure what God REALLY wants of us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You've thought deeply of this - as I have. I probably would have attacked Saul too - or anyone else trying to harm my family. This is what tears at my mind. When do you follow God and turn the other cheek - and when is it right to fight?

I think there is a lot of bad teaching in Christianity over this. I recall reading the sister of Sharon Tate - the actress murdered by Manson and his followers - forgave them. But doesn't scripture say "IF they repent forgive them?"

No. That is not what Scripture says.
We are to forgive ALL who do evil against us.
You must forgive in order to be forgiven by God (See Matthew 6:15).

I wonder when it's right to NOT extend forgiveness. It would be foolish to allow my children around someone who can do them harm -

You can ask God for forgiveness of such a judgment (if you have not already done so and then ask God for help so as to protect your children). I know I will be praying for them.

indeed someone who wishes them harm because of her own miserable life she can't stand seeing someone else happy. But why won't God act? Why? Why won't He just show me that she didn't get away with the evil she did? He withholds it and I've prayed over and over and over - and nothing but silence. This is what I can't come to terms with. Where is God when I pray and He doesn't answer? Why doesn't He answer? Am I to have faith and just dismiss those thoughts?

God answers our prayers if we obey Him. Jesus says,

"If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:7).

I did have something happen one time. A situation happened and someone did evil and I didn't get an answer right away, but a few years later I learned the person was fired - arrested for theft. So I saw God act that time, yet in the above case I didn't. It doesn't make sense.

God put justice in our hearts - we desire it - so how could He deny us from getting it? Scripture said God is a God of Justice - yet do we see this? Not always in my experience. So what do you do with that?

I'm not a baby Christian - I've been a believer for many years and I'm facing this full-on and asking God why His answers aren't coming. I don't want to make lame excuses for God. Evil was done and He should act.

Please see this movie.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes but those who participated in such evil should still be held accountable. I know I have sinned yet I try never to hurt anyone while others seem to be able to do it without consequence.

This is an issue that has always tripped me up - I'm unsure what God REALLY wants of us.

I am not sure if my words may help you at this point.

Please see this movie.

 

[angeltrue]

I don't believe in coincidences. A game of chance, the roll of a dice and insignificant events yes, but not significant events that change your life. God allows things to happen for a purpose. So whether illness or apparent accident, it doesn't get by the approval of God. Remember Job? Satan could not destroy his life until he got approval from God. But God said, Do not destroy him personally. But everything around him was destroyed: his family, livestock, riches and then he himself suffered physically with boils. All this to test his faith.
The story of Joni Eareckson Tada is another amazing story. We never know what God has in store for us or how we will finish the race. Sometimes your life is turned upside down, the world rattled, your riches or health depleted, because God has a plan for everyone of us.
Accepting that some event is just a coincidence implies He is not in control and accidents are somehow outside of his control. Then He would have to say, Oh my, look at what has happened to Blackhawk, now I have to refigure my plan for him.

I struggle with that. So even when something horrendously evil happens to you - we should believe God allowed it for a reason? I can see that in some cases, but when something is so evil that it rips the heart out - what then?

I know this is something generations of Christians have struggled with, yet now it's my turn. I walk close to God and know He hears my cries and my perplexities which make it all that much harder to bear because I know He knows.

I watched a terrible show on Dateline about a Christian girl who fell into hanging with sinful friends at the motel she worked at. The men all gang-raped her while the other girls at the party knew they were doing it and didn't help her. I can't imagine anything so despicably callous. The men then murdered her. Where was God? What good came of that for her life? What about her parents who had to live with such an atrocity? To make it worse, police didn't solve the crime until many years later - they didn't do their job. I don't understand any of it and it flies in the face of everything we believe God to be.

I was seriously injured in a medical procedure and live in constant pain. There are times I tell God to please not let me wake up the next day - but He won't answer that either. Why? My children are raised - although I still want to help my grandson and we're very close. But sometimes the pain and struggle are just overwhelming. The more I see of this world the less I like it and want to leave it. I wish I could do it over - I wouldn't have brought children into this world - it's too bad now. I guess I'm experiencing that verse "we groan inwardly..." and even Paul despaired of life.

A friend is caring for her 90 year old mother who is a vegetable. Why doesn't God just take her?

Nothing makes sense to me. Not God. Not anything He does.

 

[angeltrue]

I am not sure if my words may help you at this point.

Please see this movie.

I appreciate your take on it. It's just something that I'm wrestling with. I'm not shying away from looking at this all and asking hard questions. I just don't know how others handle the really bad stuff. My pastor told me when his aunt gave birth the inept doctor dropped the baby and broke it's spine - and died. How can someone go through something like that and not want to die too? She went on to get very bad arthritis and I wondered if it had something to do with that trauma.

A friend told me her granddaughter's husband cheated on her with her best friend. The two people in the world who never should have - betrayed her. That was bad enough but then she had to be hospitalized from the betrayal and they took her son away and got custody claiming she was mentally unfit.

How can this happen? Where is God? Two evil, selfish people, got control of a young life and are molding that child. What evil will he learn from them?

I guess it's my turn to wrestle with the deep questions in life. And God seems silent. Is it something He wants from me? I comb through and think there must be something in my life He wants changed. Would others think this? I guess I'm like Job - questioning God. I never liked the book of Job because I thought God was unfair to him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I appreciate your take on it. It's just something that I'm wrestling with. I'm not shying away from looking at this all and asking hard questions. I just don't know how others handle the really bad stuff. My pastor told me when his aunt gave birth the inept doctor dropped the baby and broke it's spine - and died. How can someone go through something like that and not want to die too? She went on to get very bad arthritis and I wondered if it had something to do with that trauma.

A friend told me her granddaughter's husband cheated on her with her best friend. The two people in the world who never should have - betrayed her. That was bad enough but then she had to be hospitalized from the betrayal and they took her son away and got custody claiming she was mentally unfit.

How can this happen? Where is God? Two evil, selfish people, got control of a young life and are molding that child. What evil will he learn from them?

I guess it's my turn to wrestle with the deep questions in life. And God seems silent. Is it something He wants from me? I comb through and think there must be something in my life He wants changed. Would others think this? I guess I'm like Job - questioning God. I never liked the book of Job because I thought God was unfair to him.

I encourage you to watch the movie called "Champion." It is available to rent or buy really cheap through YouTube (or Googleplay), Itunes, Amazon, and Disney's owned digital library called: MoviesAnywhere.com.

 

[Ronald]

...but when something is so evil that it rips the heart out - what then?

We cry, grieve, mourn, for a time and allow God's comfort to heal us. Focus on things above. This is a temporal realm and it and your life and the lives of others will pass and move on. Christians grieve differently than others for the loss of a loved one because they know they will see them again. Any Christian who dies is with the LORD and better off. Be happy for them because the passed on out of this miserable world, out of their pain and suffering.

I watched a terrible show on Dateline about a Christian girl who fell into hanging with sinful friends at the motel she worked at. The men all gang-raped her while the other girls at the party knew they were doing it and didn't help her. I can't imagine anything so despicably callous. The men then murdered her. Where was God? What good came of that for her life? What about her parents who had to live with such an atrocity? To make it worse, police didn't solve the crime until many years later - they didn't do their job. I don't understand any of it and it flies in the face of everything we believe God to be.

If you play with fire, you will get burned. People learn hard lessons in life -- sometimes it's better for that rape victim's life to be taken, to end her pain. Of course, this girl may have not been a Christian. In that case, she was punished and judged. What she went through is nothing compared to being thrown in the Lake of Fire.

I was seriously injured in a medical procedure and live in constant pain. There are times I tell God to please not let me wake up the next day - but He won't answer that either. Why? My children are raised - although I still want to help my grandson and we're very close. But sometimes the pain and struggle are just overwhelming. The more I see of this world the less I like it and want to leave it. I wish I could do it over - I wouldn't have brought children into this world - it's too bad now. I guess I'm experiencing that verse "we groan inwardly..." and even Paul despaired of life.

CBD may help. Most pain is caused by inflammation. So there are natural cures for inflammation, like CBD or turmeric. There are foods that you eat that cause inflammation.
Paul was afflicted with something and asked God to remove it and He said no. He evidently thought he needed to suffer with it. Again, we look at Job's live and realize we don't have it too bad. Look at a person with no limbs or deaf and blind and we quickly realize that our condition is not so bad and stop complaining.

A friend is caring for her 90 year old mother who is a vegetable. Why doesn't God just take her?

The lesson may not be for even that person, but for everyone around them who sees her perseverance. God tells us to persevere through the trials and tribulation.