i have had a variety of conversations with my church acquaintances regarding the topic of God's chastisement of us. my friends all appear to agree that God is all loving , and never punishes or chastises us. this has not been my own personal experience, but i have felt silenced on the subject by those who dismiss the notion of a God who would ever dare to punish or correct us. may i ask you all your opinions and experiences on God's chastisement?
does God punish and chastise His children
- Thread starter lilac sheep
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For sure he does, just like any good parent would. God is all loving but he is also just, so he will punish or reward according to his righteousness.
"And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
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thankyou jacksknight. i am aware of passages in the new testament that speak of gods chastisement. some of my church friends argue that chastisement differs from punishment, and that God NEVER punishes. i was beginning to think that i was unique inthat i sometimes feel that god is reprimanding me harshly. and i am, quite frankly, tired of all this new theology that denies that God is a god of justice, as well as a god of love and mercy. god is no sap, and he doesnt let his children get away with their sins. i know he forgives, but he also punishes, chastises and corrects us. where does this wishy washy theology of a wishy washy God come from??
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but the bible does say that to those who are his children, he rebukes and chastises, for what father does not discipline his child?
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The terms "rebuke" and "chastise" are not in the Lord's vocabulary; they are man made words that misinterpreted His words
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Believe me, you do not "rebuke" or "chastise" your children; you love them, guide them and when necessary disipline. There is no room there for rebukes or chastising
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You got me, but it's been going on for a long time. It's one of the arguments i hear a lot. Christians say God never changes, then why is he so different now from the old testament. The truth is he isn't. God still has his hands just as deep in now as he did back then. I don't know about their god, but my God is the same today, tomorrow and forever.
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"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth."
I think you need to look up the meanings of those words, i don't think they mean what you think they mean.
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thankyou jacksknight. tooldtocare's thinking is typical of what i encounter in church all to frequently. god is viewed as some kind of benevolent old grandpa, rather than as the powerful father and parent that he is. he wishes for his children to be the best they can be, and he uses discipline and rebuke when we err, because our sins grieve him more than we realise. he is a proud father and he does not let his children 'slack' on his principles and statutes. our salvation has already cost him his son. he is not going to go mushy on our sins after that! it is such a relief to hear someone agree with what i know in my own soul and thro my own experiences to be true. this is not merely a 'topic' for me, but a matter of deep personal and scriptural truth.
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I should not have butted in on this conversation. Nevertheless I looked up the word "chastise"
Castigation (from the Latin castigatio) or chastisement (via the French châtiment) is the infliction of severe (moral or corporal) punishment. One who administers a castigation is a castigator or chastiser.
In earlier times, castigation specifically meant restoring one to a religiously pure state, called chastity. In ancient Rome, it was also a term for the magistrate called a censor (in the original sense, rather than the later politicized evolution), who castigated in the name of the pagan state religion but with the authority of the 'pious' state.
In Christian times, this terminology was adopted but roughly restricted to the physical sphere: chastity became a matter of approved sexual conduct, castigation usually meaning physical punishment, either as a form of penance, as a voluntary pious exercise (see mortification of the flesh) or as educational or other coercion, while the use for other (e.g. verbal) punishments (and criticism etc.) is now often perceived as metaphorical.
I equated chastise with rebuke, belittle or demise. Which is something I would not do to a child. Reading the definition above I see that there is more than one meaning to the word. My knee-jerk response was a mistake.
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thanks tooldtocare. this IS a discussion site after all, and i am happy that you have learnt something. ( i know that may sound patronising but that isnt my intention).I should not have butted in on this conversation. Nevertheless I looked up the word "chastise"
Castigation (from the Latin castigatio) or chastisement (via the French châtiment) is the infliction of severe (moral or corporal) punishment. One who administers a castigation is a castigator or chastiser.
In earlier times, castigation specifically meant restoring one to a religiously pure state, called chastity. In ancient Rome, it was also a term for the magistrate called a censor (in the original sense, rather than the later politicized evolution), who castigated in the name of the pagan state religion but with the authority of the 'pious' state.
In Christian times, this terminology was adopted but roughly restricted to the physical sphere: chastity became a matter of approved sexual conduct, castigation usually meaning physical punishment, either as a form of penance, as a voluntary pious exercise (see mortification of the flesh) or as educational or other coercion, while the use for other (e.g. verbal) punishments (and criticism etc.) is now often perceived as metaphorical.
I equated chastise with rebuke or demise. Which is something I would not do to a child. Reading the definition above I see that there is more than one meaning to the word. My knee-jerk response was a mistake.
Forgive me
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I should not have butted in on this conversation. Nevertheless I looked up the word "chastise"
Castigation (from the Latin castigatio) or chastisement (via the French châtiment) is the infliction of severe (moral or corporal) punishment. One who administers a castigation is a castigator or chastiser.
In earlier times, castigation specifically meant restoring one to a religiously pure state, called chastity. In ancient Rome, it was also a term for the magistrate called a censor (in the original sense, rather than the later politicized evolution), who castigated in the name of the pagan state religion but with the authority of the 'pious' state.
In Christian times, this terminology was adopted but roughly restricted to the physical sphere: chastity became a matter of approved sexual conduct, castigation usually meaning physical punishment, either as a form of penance, as a voluntary pious exercise (see mortification of the flesh) or as educational or other coercion, while the use for other (e.g. verbal) punishments (and criticism etc.) is now often perceived as metaphorical.
I equated chastise with rebuke, belittle or demise. Which is something I would not do to a child. Reading the definition above I see that there is more than one meaning to the word. My knee-jerk response was a mistake.
Forgive me
The most common definition is..
chas·tise
ˈCHasˌtīz,ˌCHaˈstīz/
verb
verb: chastise; 3rd person present: chastises; past tense: chastised; past participle: chastised; gerund or present participle: chastising
- rebuke or reprimand severely.
"he chastised his colleagues for their laziness"
synonyms: scold, upbraid, berate, reprimand, reprove, rebuke, admonish, chide, censure, lambaste, castigate, lecture, give someone a piece of one's mind, give someone a tongue-lashing, take to task, rake/haul over the coals;More
informaltell off, dress down, bawl out, blow up at, give someone an earful, give someone a roasting, come down on someone like a ton of bricks, slap someone's wrist, rap over the knuckles, give someone hell, give someone what for, chew out, ream out, zing;
archaicchasten;
rarereprehend
"the staff were chastised for arriving late"
antonyms: praise - dated
punish, especially by beating.
- dated
The stuff you linked is an out of date definition. The most current and accepted definition is to rebuke or reprimand.
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Hebrews 12:11
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby
Strong's Greek 3809: paideia
discipline; training and education of children, hence: instruction; chastisement, correction
Looks like the Bible says yes
But how many people are actually going to accept that ?
Certainly not those included in the great falling away
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby
Strong's Greek 3809: paideia
discipline; training and education of children, hence: instruction; chastisement, correction
Looks like the Bible says yes
But how many people are actually going to accept that ?
Certainly not those included in the great falling away
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Those who do not accept chastising or rebuke, are usually those children who seem to be right in their own eyes.
If we carry our self esteem to the point where we do not accept chastise or rebuke from God or through others whom God sends as his messengers, then we haven't really denied ourselves of our self. This yields an inner ego that has the hallmarks of having emnity towards God.
Jesus said..........
What the above verse means is that if someone so even spits in your face, you will accept it and not anger against that person and by doing so you are denying yourself for the sake of Christ, hence you become selfless.
If those who accept no rebuke or no chastise and reckon that they can come by their own names and carrying their own self esteems, then think again about what Jesus said about carrying your own crosses.
How could Jesus who is God accept all the things that they did to him and man conversely saying that this will not happen to me, for I will not put up with it. If you don't put up with people abusing you, then your carrying your own name. Therefore you place your name above the cross of Christ.
The question should be will you accept chastise and rebuke for the sake of Christ. Peter in Acts 10 certainly did and he put his tail inbetween his legs and went to preach to the gentiles.
If we carry our self esteem to the point where we do not accept chastise or rebuke from God or through others whom God sends as his messengers, then we haven't really denied ourselves of our self. This yields an inner ego that has the hallmarks of having emnity towards God.
Jesus said..........
What the above verse means is that if someone so even spits in your face, you will accept it and not anger against that person and by doing so you are denying yourself for the sake of Christ, hence you become selfless.
If those who accept no rebuke or no chastise and reckon that they can come by their own names and carrying their own self esteems, then think again about what Jesus said about carrying your own crosses.
How could Jesus who is God accept all the things that they did to him and man conversely saying that this will not happen to me, for I will not put up with it. If you don't put up with people abusing you, then your carrying your own name. Therefore you place your name above the cross of Christ.
The question should be will you accept chastise and rebuke for the sake of Christ. Peter in Acts 10 certainly did and he put his tail inbetween his legs and went to preach to the gentiles.
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
The world teaches to discover thyself and to pamper thyself and to protect thyself. The Great falling away will put those wh carry their own names against those who carry the cross of Christ.
In Christ's world, there is his way through the cross and his teachings to become selfless and to loose thyself from the worldly ways or to join the ranks of the world by carrying your own names and chasing the strong delusion of worldly political correctness.
In Christ's world there is no political correctness, for you either are with him or with the world. So everyone needs to cross the threshold of denying the self and at the cost of the self, in order to really be on Christ's side.
Are you for the christ of this world or the Christ of the cross, who accepted being downgraded and humiliated and was crucified for your sins.
You see it is not so easy being a Christian. Your identity is a heavenly selfless passport and a sure sentence to death. So take up your crosses and be prepared to die for your Lord.
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thankyou berean. i am currently dealing with this very crossroads in my life, and i can only pray thanks and gratitude to God, for he has made me aware of what is happening in my soul. the confident scepticism and denial of our Lord by the unbelieving world so easily misleads. and it is made all the harder where in our churches it is considered old fashioned and even embarrassing to speak of any other life than this earthly life with its carnal and material activities and succeccess. i have been sorely tempted to remove myself from church, but praise God he has told me that i must stay and persevere. it is so enormously frustrating and confusing to witness the harried piousness of church services, and then to witness the enthusiasm of returning to 'our lives' when the weekly duty is performed and done with. surely, jesus speaks so deep into our very souls that there can be no such thing as 'our own life', but ALL of the christian life is devoted to thoughts and prayers and service to him alone. our 'lives' outside of the 'church' (i.e the building) are not our own. they compliment and extend the church service. they are consumed with pursuing an ever deepening knowledge of and relationship with the lord. so why do so many church goers recoil when we persist in Godly talk and godly subjects beyond the allotted 2 hour sunday service. i have a very joyful life, full of worship for our creator and and his works. it is not boring... yet it is treated as an inconvenience and a nuisance to speak of the lord outside the service. it is as tho we only worship the Lord in order to have our carnal desires met by him, and when worldly successes have been gained we have no need to even think of him, let alone speak of him. this is NOT the way.
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