Does God Need Your Permission in Order to Save You?

[corinth77777]

Not sure where you're coming from with this analogy. Dead doesn't mean "not knowing." Dead means "without God." No one "falls into God's will." People who do God's will are directed by God to do so, because God is ultimately in control of all circumstances. God can cause unbelievers to do His will at times, which He did with Nebuchadnezzar for example. In Proverbs it says "the heart of the king is in God's hand, and He turns it whichever way He will." So God can work His will in a person even if they aren't born again. How much more does God turn the heart of the one whom He chose, born-again with the indwelling Spirit? Believing the gospel is not a natural act; it's supernatural, so God has to work that work in individuals.
TD

This not a debate statement:
There is a passage where God says walk before me...what that has to do with the process I'm not sure....

There is also a passage where the old testament folks seem to be Baptized in the presence of the trinity under the cloud and in the red sea.

This you can argue: but remember even though I am not dogmatic about, that the dead do not cry out on their own... that I do not leave room for a change of mind.

If God made people with Free will, in His image, the ability to need something bigger then themselves one really can't put their finger on when God starts His work.
Even though God is the progenitor of all things what part in our conscience allows man to seek more than the world, Satan, and the flesh. ARE WE SAYING that people do not know they are dead.....

NOW IF YOU CAN PROVE THE DEAD DO NOT KNOW THEY ARE DEAD, AND THE DEAD DO NOT KNOW THEY NEED SOMETHING GREATER THEN THEMSELVES THEN YOU'VE MADE YOUR POINT.

BECAUSE MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT IN THE SENSE AS SOMEONE MENTIONED....ADAM AND EVE NEEDED TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THEM SELVES

OR THAT THE LAW WAS GIVEN TO POINT TO SIN IN US.

WALKING IN THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD..IS TO OBEY The Spirit of Satan...

Are we saying that people in which God made in His image...cannot want or will anything bigger then themselves?

The question then can we be what we are not.
And maybe I answered my own question

Not without knowledge..

For if I grew up as Lots Daughters thinking they were the end of the world...would I do anything other than my knowledge presents

Meaning then our system of perceived ideals produces only what it can think.

However once one knows another knowledge are they forced to be accepting of it. Yet the fact they have knowledge now makes themselve accountable for their own fate.

Yet they still choose.

So then the knowledge of sin is what would make one know they had a natural conscience?

Or can the conscience on it's own cannot perceive a sinful nature without knowlege.

With that said from reverse flip, on the thought on Adam and Eve's Story.... the tree
Was the knowledge of good and evil.

They initially knew no sin too...
Until
They chose Satan's advise and not God's command.

If now they knew Good and evil
What was the fall. Knowing good and evil, Doing evil or disobeying the one that has created and protected them, by eating from the tree?

I think it was disobedience
Therefore now one has to obey the truth
By believing who brings life.

What does all this mean...not sure just where my thoughts led.

 

[corinth77777]

This not a debate statement:
There is a passage where God says walk before me...what that has to do with the process I'm not sure....

There is also a passage where the old testament folks seem to be Baptized in the presence of the trinity under the cloud and in the red sea.

This you can argue: but remember even though I am not dogmatic about, that the dead do not cry out on their own... that I do not leave room for a change of mind.

If God made people with Free will, in His image, the ability to need something bigger then themselves one really can't put their finger on when God starts His work.
Even though God is the progenitor of all things what part in our conscience allows man to seek more than the world, Satan, and the flesh. ARE WE SAYING that people do not know they are dead.....

NOW IF YOU CAN PROVE THE DEAD DO NOT KNOW THEY ARE DEAD, AND THE DEAD DO NOT KNOW THEY NEED SOMETHING GREATER THEN THEMSELVES THEN YOU'VE MADE YOUR POINT.

BECAUSE MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT IN THE SENSE AS SOMEONE MENTIONED....ADAM AND EVE NEEDED TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THEM SELVES

OR THAT THE LAW WAS GIVEN TO POINT TO SIN IN US.

WALKING IN THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD..IS TO OBEY The Spirit of Satan...

Are we saying that people in which God made in His image...cannot want or will anything bigger then themselves?

The question then can we be what we are not.
And maybe I answered my own question

Not without knowledge..

For if I grew up as Lots Daughters thinking they were the end of the world...would I do anything other than my knowledge presents

Meaning then our system of perceived ideals produces only what it can think.

However once one knows another knowledge are they forced to be accepting of it. Yet the fact they have knowledge now makes themselve accountable for their own fate.

Yet they still choose.

So then the knowledge of sin is what would make one know they had a natural conscience?

Or can the conscience on it's own cannot perceive a sinful nature without knowlege.

With that said from reverse flip, on the thought on Adam and Eve's Story.... the tree
Was the knowledge of good and evil.

They initially knew no sin too...
Until
They chose Satan's advise and not God's command.

If now they knew Good and evil
What was the fall. Knowing good and evil, Doing evil or disobeying the one that has created and protected them, by eating from the tree?

I think it was disobedience
Therefore now one has to obey the truth
By believing who brings life.

What does all this mean...not sure just where my thoughts led.

Or it proves people have a choice and given knowledge they are able to choose.
As adam and Eve...

 

[corinth77777]

Or it proves people have a choice and given knowledge they are able to choose.
As adam and Eve...

With that said, No, God does not go against his intention of why He gave men free will.
Yet He does offer them another choice: life

Men then out of their dead state can choose...

 

[jimmyjimmy]

With that said, No, God does not go against his intention of why He gave men free will.
Yet He does offer them another choice: life

Men then out of their dead state can choose...

Pelagius would be proud.

 

[corinth77777]

With that said, No, God does not go against his intention of why He gave men free will.
Yet He does offer them another choice: life

Men then out of their dead state can choose...

Just Maybe that is what it means that the light shines in the darkness, and they received Him not. But as many as received, He gave the right to become sons of God.

 

[corinth77777]

Therefore men cannot cry out until the light of life is made known to them. AFTER WHICH THEY MAKE A CHOICE, THEN THEY CAN BE BROUGHT INTO THE LIGHT..
WHERE THEY MUST CHOOSE TO ALSO WALK IN WHAT THEY NOW BEEN BROUGHT INTO.

 

[corinth77777]

Pelagius would be proud.

I doubt it, because free will is not a work to earn the salvation that leads to eternal life.
As said earlier the opposite of grace is work not effort. In the choiced, Jesus Christ just happens to be where grace is...
1 Timothy 1;14

"And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus."

And that is not to say that the grace of God didnt bring salvation.

 

[Hammster]

But, it does not say that we cannot respond to God. Just the opposite, it says even nature shows us God, so that men are without excuse.
Men are not just flesh, we are flesh and Spirit, all of us, and the spirit can respond to God's calling.
"Deep calls unto deep."

So regardless of what I posted, are you saying that we can please God in the flesh?

 

[Hammster]

Right there in the text he is told how to be saved. This isn't a lone verse.
I could list lots that say the same.
Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…”
“…get a new heart and a new spirit.”
Verse 32 makes it even more simple:

“Repent and…”
“…live!”
Life comes from repentance, not the other way around.

I’m not seeing in Acts where it says when he was regenerated. What words are you seeing that specifically say that?

 

[renniks]

So regardless of what I posted, are you saying that we can please God in the flesh?

I never said that and you know it.

 

[Hammster]

I never said that and you know it.

Okay, my apologies. That’s what I took from your post. If that’s not the case, then, how can one submit to God (something that’s pleasing to Him) while still in the flesh (and those in the flesh cannot please God)?

 

[corinth77777]

So regardless of what I posted, are you saying that we can please God in the flesh?

If we walk in the spirit one will notfullfill the lust of the flesh....

But no one living by the flesh as example its lust
Can be walking in/or by the Spirit.

To walk by the spirit, or in steps with the Spirit is the way we uphold the law of God...

In Christ then means to obey/ believe/put trust in His sons Life

 

[corinth77777]

If we walk in the spirit one will notfullfill the lust of the flesh....

But no one living by the flesh as example its lust
Can be walking in/or by the Spirit.

To walk by the spirit, or in steps with the Spirit is the way we uphold the law of God...

In Christ then means to obey/ believe/put trust in His sons Life

For Jesus is the way [His Life] the life He lived here we must live out.

We must live it out then, the way He did; for As He obeyed the father and the Father did the work. We step into the will of God when we obey and continue to obey the son.
That is How we are elected before the foundation of the world.

 

[corinth77777]

For Jesus is the way [His Life] the life He lived here we must live out.

We must live it out then, the way He did; for As He obeyed the father and the Father did the work. We step into the will of God when we obey and continue to obey the son.
That is How we are elected before the foundation of the world.

This is the faith of Jesus that He obeyed the father even onto death, and the Father raised Him up. [Recall here to obey means to believe with the intent to act.]

Because he learned obedience and became the source of salvation. HE IS THE life source

BUT, Eternal life is the connection to the father and the son by a faith that works by/through love.

The source of Salvation only delivers us from the context below yet extends after death because we Live by the Spirit. And yet we "live" by the Spirit, meaning come alive by it.
Because God is intimate with the righteous.
So Justification is by faith, but faith that works by love.

Below
being delivered [saved]from present circumstances the world, Satans power, and the flesh, the anger or wrath of man.

 

[corinth77777]

This is the faith of Jesus that He obeyed the father even onto death, and the Father raised Him up. [Recall here to obey means to believe with the intent to act.]

Because he learned obedience and became the source of salvation. HE IS THE life source

BUT, Eternal life is the connection to the father and the son by a faith that works by/through love.

The source of Salvation only delivers us from the context below yet extends after death because we Live by the Spirit. And yet we "live" by the Spirit, meaning come alive by it.
Because God is intimate with the righteous.
So Justification is by faith, but faith that works by love.

Below
being delivered [saved]from present circumstances the world, Satans power, and the flesh, the anger or wrath of man.

This is beautuful... We are saved from The World, Satan's Power, and the flesh to live from.......The Trinity.....

That is why...I believe when I first started writing the Story of the Baptism in the Red sea came to me First. BECAUSE THE TRINITY IS THERE....OR THAT God says walk before me..
Until next time...I've been blessed

 

[corinth77777]

The Fruit is as only good as the Tree....
Make the tree good and it's fruit will be

 

[BNR32FAN]

All scripture supports Reformed Theology.

Then all of Christianity had it wrong for the first 1500 years. It’s a good think Martin Luther and John Calvin finally came along to tell us what the apostles actually 1500 years ago because evidently none of the early church writings reflect their doctrines.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Where is it exactly stated...what direct words are used by the reformed in that century

I’m not sure exactly what you are referring to. Are you asking what did the reformed church teach about the doctrine of eternal security?

 

[corinth77777]

I’m not sure exactly what you are referring to. Are you asking what did the reformed church teach about the doctrine of eternal security?

If I recall correctly...What statements and clarifications did they give... Did they even use the words Eternal security or perserverence of the Saints....if you could quote something they have witten.

 

[corinth77777]

A good question for this post is What was the mission of the Trinity in the Story of the Red sea....