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Ben12
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Prov 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to
search out a matter.
search out a matter.
Does God hide things is my question; and f He does why and how?
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Does God hide things is my question; and f He does why and how?
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Ben12
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The Bible is full of mysteries (mystery in the Greek language means a sacred secret and used 27 times in NT); The Bible pages are full hidden spiritual mysteries especially when you consider parables types and shadows, patterns not even including the culture and language barriers. The Bible is the blue print of truth; the Holy Spirit within us is the engineer or architect who is the only source of interpreting it.
We say we look at truth as Christians; but in reality we are looking at it so often though someone elses understanding and ignoring what the Bible truly has to say.
Ray Prinzing said:
"Anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Revelation 3:18. "In that day the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness." Isaiah 29:18 & 19.
Much of the truth of God's Word has been obscured and enveloped in darkness by the traditional teachings of Christian Babylon. Those who desire to mature in their knowledge of God must not allow room in their thinking for any secondary power to be able to successfully defeat, frustrate or even delay God's plan of the ages, which is to head up ALL things in Christ. The more we see that God does not just allow, but that He is the actual cause of everything that comes into our life, the more Satan will be able to have no effect upon your mind. Satan is the negative handiwork of GOD and he can do only that which is the will of God in everything He does.
Neither can we hasten or delay the timing for the outworking of God's eonian purpose. Anointed eyes are able to see that everything is right on schedule all of the time. Anointed eyes can see that God has been, and is now processing His firstfruits of election to use them in the outworking of His plan to head up all things in Christ. Evangelical Babylon preys upon the minds of congregations with the esthetic force of their music and the emotional persuasion of their sermons, and they all fall into the ditch together. "Blind leaders of the blind," Jesus calls them, "for they have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof." Their eyes have been conditioned and blinded so they cannot see the truth. If congregations could see and understand what God is really like, most preachers would lose their power over their man-made kingdom that they have worked so hard to establish. But the anointed eyes can see that God is working out His purpose through evangelical Babylon IN SPITE OF THEMSELVES, for all Babylon is a golden cup in the hand of the Lord. Every sigh and every groan that comes from every heart is a prophecy that a time is coming when all creation shall be delivered from bondage to corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. There will be no one anywhere who will not experience the restoring power of God's love. There will be victory for everyone in all of God's judgements. This is the glorious truth that God anointed eyes can see. Oh I'm thinking, yes I'm thinking of the way that God doth lead, And the stirrings in my spirit that would now the message heed. When our eyes have been anointed by the blessed Spirit of truth,
And we see beyond the present with its pressures so uncouth. See how God will bring forth people to the glory of His Name Those who shall show forth His praises, nevermore to bring Him shame. Those in whom His soul delighted and in whom He is well pleased To become His habitation; truth and mercy are appeased. Of the old, no part remaining, none of Babylon's wanting score, For the new is far excelling where His grace aboundeth more. Glorious things of thee are spoken, Zion, city of our God Where the message is "becoming," messengers with peace are shed. Dawning of His day of power from the depths of mourning's womb, Now emerging from the stillness, see the sons dispel the gloom We are waiting for that hour when the Christ will sure appear And we sense within, the timing, that redemption draweth near. Eyes anointed pierce the darkness, past the bleakness of the night To declare with utmost courage that they see the victory's light. With the present kingdoms falling and confusion taking toll Yet we see His Kingdom bringing full salvation for each soul!
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Ben12
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Exodus 16:15
And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.
And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.
Manna was the food the Children of Israel ate in there forty years in the wilderness. It was food that God gave His chosen people during their long and difficult journey. But it is even more for Gods people if we can only look at that pattern and examples. It took the children of Israel forty years to cross a wilderness that should of taken 9 days. But God had a much more awesome reasoning to allow this journey
1 Corinthians 10:11
And all these things as types did happen to those persons, and they were written for our admonition, to whom the end of the World (ages) did come.
This chapter in the New Testament shows us that God uses both His Old and New Testament for our admonition and King James inserted the word World which would be better translated as age.
Deut. 8:2
Remember how the LORD your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. 3 He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD. 4 Your clothes did not wear out and your feet did not swell during these forty years. 5 Know then in your heart that as a man disciplines his son, so the LORD your God disciplines you.
Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit
says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some ofthe hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name (nature/charater/authority) written on it, known only to him who receives it.
In the Tabernacle or Temple was the Shew Bread which was in the Holy Place; this bread was for all who entered in to receive it. But in the Ark of the Covenant was manna. This manna was hidden from the view of the Children of Israel and is an awesome example of the hidden manna mentioned in the verse above. But this manna had another characteristic about it; it did not perish like the manna in the wilderness.
Exodus 16
19And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.20Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.21And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
You see Gods Word is the same way; there is a carnal Word and there is a spiritual Word. What appears on the surface or easy to eat is carnal. Just like there is meat of the Word as well as meat. Meat requires chewing to digest; where milk goes right down. So many of God's people do not seek out the new manna (revelation of the sprit) they eat the same old manna of yesterday; (give me that good old time religion) he God's Word is a living Word; it is spirit and it is life. It is not the dead letter of past.
Isa. 28: 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
1 Cor 2:9-16
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; (not man and his religion) comparing spiritual things with spiritual.14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Just like there is a thirty, sixty one hundred fold God has levels of spiritual understanding. and that which is natural but God with His Word is showing us how to approach His Word and what doctrine or bias out there can direct us better then those hidden mysteries, and the hidden manna seems a bit higher then what is literal.
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Good Day, Ben
There are many catergorues here that this person must define....
Christian Babylon, evangelical Babylon
"The Bible is the blue print of truth"
Really, my understanding is that the Bible being the (voice of God) is true and therefore truth objectivly.
Not really sure how this answers the implication of the OP.
"Does God Hide his truth" ?
Semms the writer here contends that Men by some means has hidden God's truth, and there is nothing God can do about it........
That assertion I disagree with.
In Him,
Bill
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Ben12
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I do not believe God wants us to have a blind truth as many would call it; but what He desires is His children have their spiritual eyes wide open.
NT:3700 optanomai (op-tan'-om-ahee); a (middle voice) prolonged form of the primary (middle voice) optomai (op'-tom-ahee); which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternate of NT:3708; to gaze (i.e. with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from NT:991, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from NT:1492, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while NT:2300, and still more emphatically its intensive NT:2334, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and NT:4648 a watching from a distance):
The word see: Greek:
NT:3708 horao (hor-ah'-o); properly, to stare at [compare NT:3700], i.e. (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear:
NT:2334 theoreo (theh-o-reh'-o); from a derivative of NT:2300 (perhaps by add. of NT:3708); to be a spectator of, i.e. discern, (literally, figuratively [experience] or intensively [acknowledge]):
NT:2300 theaomai (theh-ah'-om-ahee); a prolonged form of a primary verb; to look closely at, i.e. (by implication) perceive (literally or figuratively); by extension to visit:
You know being spiritual is the last thing many of Gods people would even consider. We have all kinds of Biblical truth; we have a religious truth, an intellectual truth, a carnal truth; milk of Word; they are all in the scripture or the shew bread for all of Gods people to eat. But then there is a deeper realty that only the spirit truth can lead and guide you into. What I am saying there many deep hidden mysteries in scripture.
Present truth; in other words as the truth is revealed you move with it.
The reason there are many denominations are for two main reasons; spiritual growth and being opened for truth; as well as spiritual immaturity and closing your spiritual understanding. A choice between hearing/seeing God; or hearing man and his tradition; men of God like Luther has a revelation and walked in it; but instead of being opened for more they built their denominational walls made of the hardest material on this earth.
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
NT:3700 optanomai (op-tan'-om-ahee); a (middle voice) prolonged form of the primary (middle voice) optomai (op'-tom-ahee); which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternate of NT:3708; to gaze (i.e. with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from NT:991, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from NT:1492, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while NT:2300, and still more emphatically its intensive NT:2334, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and NT:4648 a watching from a distance):
The word see: Greek:
NT:3708 horao (hor-ah'-o); properly, to stare at [compare NT:3700], i.e. (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear:
NT:2334 theoreo (theh-o-reh'-o); from a derivative of NT:2300 (perhaps by add. of NT:3708); to be a spectator of, i.e. discern, (literally, figuratively [experience] or intensively [acknowledge]):
NT:2300 theaomai (theh-ah'-om-ahee); a prolonged form of a primary verb; to look closely at, i.e. (by implication) perceive (literally or figuratively); by extension to visit:
You know being spiritual is the last thing many of Gods people would even consider. We have all kinds of Biblical truth; we have a religious truth, an intellectual truth, a carnal truth; milk of Word; they are all in the scripture or the shew bread for all of Gods people to eat. But then there is a deeper realty that only the spirit truth can lead and guide you into. What I am saying there many deep hidden mysteries in scripture.
2 Peter 1:12
Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
Luke 8:10
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Apollos1
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Ephesians 3:1
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus in behalf of you Gentiles,
2 if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;
3 how that by revelation was made known unto me the mystery, as I wrote
before in few words,
4 whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ;
5 which in other generations was not made known unto the sons of men, as it hath now been revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit ASV
One of my favorite scriptures, this passage point out several things, the most
amazing of which is when we READ what Paul wrote, WE can UNDERSTAND what Paul understood, the very things they he received by revelation.
And truly, isnt that the purpose of the written word the Holy Spirit revealing to man the things that God wants man to understand and do that man might be saved?
This passage also points out that what had been revealed to Paul had ALSO been revealed to the other apostles and some prophets as well. Paul had no monopoly on Gods truth.
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus in behalf of you Gentiles,
2 if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;
3 how that by revelation was made known unto me the mystery, as I wrote
before in few words,
4 whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ;
5 which in other generations was not made known unto the sons of men, as it hath now been revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit ASV
One of my favorite scriptures, this passage point out several things, the most
amazing of which is when we READ what Paul wrote, WE can UNDERSTAND what Paul understood, the very things they he received by revelation.
And truly, isnt that the purpose of the written word the Holy Spirit revealing to man the things that God wants man to understand and do that man might be saved?
This passage also points out that what had been revealed to Paul had ALSO been revealed to the other apostles and some prophets as well. Paul had no monopoly on Gods truth.
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Ben12
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The very verse you are quoting is a prime example of what I am trying to express in the word mystery (Gk sacred secret). You are trying to tell me that the truth of God can be known to everyone? The word revelation means to be revealed. Not all of God’s people have the spiritual eyes to see spiritual things. That is why there are babes who can only handle the milk of the Word; in comparison to those who are mature that can handle the meat of God’s Word. You give a baby a steak and he will choke; the same with a spiritual baby.
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Ben12
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I gave the example of hidden manna in 3; can you explain the candlestick in Revelations?
Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
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Apollos1
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Greetings -
I was responding to your original question -
Does God hide His truth?
I am of the opinion that God does not hide His truth. His truth is revealed and it is in His written word for all who will seek and find it.
I am having difficulty seeing what your point or purpose is in this thread.
I was responding to your original question -
Does God hide His truth?
I am of the opinion that God does not hide His truth. His truth is revealed and it is in His written word for all who will seek and find it.
I am having difficulty seeing what your point or purpose is in this thread.
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Ben12
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Many seek, ask and knock; but then they limit God to what ever understanding/religion/dogma, etc. I mentioned the hidden manna as well as the Word Mystery. I have had heard some pretty deep Christians tell me their are "no mysteries in scripture"; until I pointed out the word mystery.
Are we limited God to what is already known; like the Jews in Jesus day; or are we honestly seek new revelation from His Spirit...
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Hi Ben:
http://www.mf.no/bibelprog/vines.pl?word=mystery
My work on “The Mystery Explained” spans seven hundred pages without the eighty diagrams, but only begins to scratch the surface of a truly ‘infinite’ topic. A good place to begin gathering the right seeds is here.
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
Yes. There is such a thing as His Hidden Wisdom "which God predestined before the ages to our glory." 1Cor. 2:7. These things were “hidden IN GOD” (Eph. 3:9) like every other facet of “The Mystery” (Eph. 3:3). The “treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Col. 2:3) of ‘these things’ (2Peter 3:14-16) are hidden in Christ Jesus (The Word = F+S+HS), as God’s mystery (Col. 2:2) and in plain sight in Scripture, but only if you have spiritual eyes from God to see. :0) God’s wisdom is hidden away from the sons of disobedience (Eph. 2:2) and can only be understood by those illumined by the Holy Spirit.
http://www.mf.no/bibelprog/vines.pl?word=mystery
Every facet of ‘the mystery’ is outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension and can be known only by Divine Revelation. The ‘time’ aspect is crucial, as God appointed the time for Paul to reveal these things in his ministry AND He appoints a time for every member of Christ’s body to see His Hidden Wisdom through a seeding (faith), shoot (knowledge) and fruit (wisdom) process. Paul sowed the seeds and Apollos watered, but then God caused the growth. 1Cor. 3:6-7.
My work on “The Mystery Explained” spans seven hundred pages without the eighty diagrams, but only begins to scratch the surface of a truly ‘infinite’ topic. A good place to begin gathering the right seeds is here.
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
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Apollos1
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Hey Ben- - -
No where in the New Testament is the WORD of God or the revelation of the Holy Spirit compared to the manna that was given to Israel in the wilderness. It is not done by metaphor, simile, metonymy, or by direct comparison. While your comments above in reference to Revelation 2:17, that compare Gods word with the manna in the wilderness make for some sermonizing, it cant be found in scripture. Your application of this verse is wrong. Therefore I can not offer any proper response other than to say that the hidden manna is something for those that overcome in this life.
What Paul is saying in Ephesians 3 is that anyone/everyone can understand what he understood by revelation when the READ what he wrote. It is that simple.
The first-time reader of scripture will not understand everything to it fullest depth on the first reading no. Digesting milk or meat takes time although milk takes less time. But the food is there to be digested for anyone who would seek and find, hunger and thirst for it! (The food is not hidden under the table.) So lets not confuse what someone can understand with what has been revealed for them to know. The more we know, the more we GROW unto salvation 1 Pet 2:2.
Gods complete will for mans salvation has been revealed there are NO MYSTERIES in this realm.
Lets consider 1 Corinthians 2:6-13
Vs. 6 - Paul states that we speak the wisdom of the MYSTERY.
(Who is the we in this verse Ben?) What wisdom are they speaking.
Vs. 7 We speak Gods wisdom the wisdom that HAD been hidden (a mystery) since the world began BUT not hidden anymore.
Vs. 8 None of the world rulers knew this wisdom
Vs. 9 This wisdom involved things that God prepared for them that love Him.
Vs. 10 Unto US God revealed these things by the Holy Spirit. (Who is the us in the verse?)
Vs. 11 We cant know things about another man unless that man tells us the spirit of God had to reveal to us the things about God.
Vs. 12 - We received the spirit which is from God that we might know the things of God.
Vs. 13 We speak the things of God in words which the spirit teaches combining spiritual things with spiritual words.
According to what Paul teaches here, those things that were once a MYSTERY from the beginning of the world had been REVEALED by the Holy Spirit to THEM.
What new revelation do you seek from the HS ? Did the HS, in guiding the writers of the NT, forget to put something in? Did the HS leave something out of the NT? Did the HS make an error in judgment on some points? IS THE WORD OF GOD LACKING OR FLAWED? (2Tim 3:16, 2 Pet 1:3)
Ben, I hope I am addressing things that are of importance to you here
Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to all men..."
No where in the New Testament is the WORD of God or the revelation of the Holy Spirit compared to the manna that was given to Israel in the wilderness. It is not done by metaphor, simile, metonymy, or by direct comparison. While your comments above in reference to Revelation 2:17, that compare Gods word with the manna in the wilderness make for some sermonizing, it cant be found in scripture. Your application of this verse is wrong. Therefore I can not offer any proper response other than to say that the hidden manna is something for those that overcome in this life.
What Paul is saying in Ephesians 3 is that anyone/everyone can understand what he understood by revelation when the READ what he wrote. It is that simple.
The first-time reader of scripture will not understand everything to it fullest depth on the first reading no. Digesting milk or meat takes time although milk takes less time. But the food is there to be digested for anyone who would seek and find, hunger and thirst for it! (The food is not hidden under the table.) So lets not confuse what someone can understand with what has been revealed for them to know. The more we know, the more we GROW unto salvation 1 Pet 2:2.
Gods complete will for mans salvation has been revealed there are NO MYSTERIES in this realm.
Lets consider 1 Corinthians 2:6-13
Vs. 6 - Paul states that we speak the wisdom of the MYSTERY.
(Who is the we in this verse Ben?) What wisdom are they speaking.
Vs. 7 We speak Gods wisdom the wisdom that HAD been hidden (a mystery) since the world began BUT not hidden anymore.
Vs. 8 None of the world rulers knew this wisdom
Vs. 9 This wisdom involved things that God prepared for them that love Him.
Vs. 10 Unto US God revealed these things by the Holy Spirit. (Who is the us in the verse?)
Vs. 11 We cant know things about another man unless that man tells us the spirit of God had to reveal to us the things about God.
Vs. 12 - We received the spirit which is from God that we might know the things of God.
Vs. 13 We speak the things of God in words which the spirit teaches combining spiritual things with spiritual words.
According to what Paul teaches here, those things that were once a MYSTERY from the beginning of the world had been REVEALED by the Holy Spirit to THEM.
What new revelation do you seek from the HS ? Did the HS, in guiding the writers of the NT, forget to put something in? Did the HS leave something out of the NT? Did the HS make an error in judgment on some points? IS THE WORD OF GOD LACKING OR FLAWED? (2Tim 3:16, 2 Pet 1:3)
Ben, I hope I am addressing things that are of importance to you here
Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to all men..."
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Ben12
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1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
Types/shadows/parable/hdden manna/examples/ patterns...
If all you ever eat is milk because you refuse to grow spiritually; you will never be able to handle the meat. Many of God's people have never grown beyond the milk stage even thought they have been Chrsitians for 80 years.
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Ben12
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Nothing is mentioned in the Book of Revelation about coming future events; but what is mentioned is "Signified".
Notice it does not say all the church goers; but to “he who overcame”; individually speaking to the overcomer…. “He that has an ear”; not a natural ear that hears words of man like the appendages on the side of our head; but spiritual mature ears that are open to what God’s Spirit is saying; with in. John was in spirit on the Island of Patmos; what is spiritual to you?
Revelations 1:1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (signify or in other words written by signs and symbols)
Appollos
You are so against metaphors; but what symbolism. Maybe the problem is that these symbolisms go right over the natural carnal religious minds; like God designed them to do.
The Book of Revelation is the most spiritual book in the Bible and is full of these symbolisms. Not to be dissected and controlled by your little religious box who has no clue because all they hear are the traditions of their faith; but to be revealed by the Spirit of truth who is will lead and guide us into all truth. When I look for what the hidden manna is in scripture; I look for what the Bible s saying not some literal religious tradition.
Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit
says to the churches (outcalled). To him who overcomes, I will give some of
the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new
Notice it does not say all the church goers; but to “he who overcame”; individually speaking to the overcomer…. “He that has an ear”; not a natural ear that hears words of man like the appendages on the side of our head; but spiritual mature ears that are open to what God’s Spirit is saying; with in. John was in spirit on the Island of Patmos; what is spiritual to you?
Revelations 1:1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (signify or in other words written by signs and symbols)
Appollos
You are so against metaphors; but what symbolism. Maybe the problem is that these symbolisms go right over the natural carnal religious minds; like God designed them to do.
The Book of Revelation is the most spiritual book in the Bible and is full of these symbolisms. Not to be dissected and controlled by your little religious box who has no clue because all they hear are the traditions of their faith; but to be revealed by the Spirit of truth who is will lead and guide us into all truth. When I look for what the hidden manna is in scripture; I look for what the Bible s saying not some literal religious tradition.
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Dispy
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Since creation, God made His will known throrough progressive revelation. Being God is all knowing, He knew the end from the beginning. Therefore, He could use that knowledge to His advantage. He knew that His creation Lucifer would try to usurp His authority. Also, He knew that His creation, i.e. man, would fall. Therefore, He could devise a plan that would defeat Satan, and also provide salvation to fallen man. His "Plan A" was the Cross. Being sin would result in death and eternal damnation, God sent His Son to die on the Cross for the payment of all Sin. His death, burial, and resurrection not only conquered death, wihch is able to provided eternal life for all mankink, and it also defeated Satan at the same time.
God's Plan A was kept secret since the world began. He did not make it known until He revealed to to the Apostle Paul, through the revelation of the mystery. It was given to Paul to complete the Scriptures. 'Whereof I am made a minnister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill (complete) the word of God; the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generation, but now is made manifest to the saints:" {Colossians 1:25-26." Therfore, we now have everything that God wants us to know.
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Ben12
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More tradition:
Lucifer; is he really the devil?
Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.
Now the religious system teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.
Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"
2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.
Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. In the natural it is speaking of a King and in the spiritual it is speaking of Adam. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil?
It is the erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.
Lucifer was never an Arc Angel, he was a MAN. (Satan is a spirit.)
Is14:15 says he was brought down to hell, (sheol, place of the dead) the side of the pit. Satan is never thrown in the grave because he has no part in a natural death as he is a spiritual being. Only MAN dies and is placed in a grave. Evil spirits only go to a place called Tartarus and Satan the high ranking one is sent to the lake of fire.( which is not hell)
When Adam was placed in Eden he was perfect. When Adam fell he fell from a lofty realm. He was cast out of that realm. Adam because of the fall caused Kingdoms to shake and made the world as a wilderness. The fall brought us down into this realm of vanity. Adam was the1st Adam and Jesus is the last Adam.
Even the Jews knew the true name of Satan. They called him Beelzebub. Satan was created a tool
Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy. (See God created Satan)
Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNING and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..
I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?
In the beginning Man was full of light and Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel.
This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men.
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Ben12
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Lucifer..... Just another example of hidden truth..... Religous man rather listen to the traditons of man's religion; then be open to revelation of the spirit....
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Hi Dispy and Ben:
If “Christ in you” (Col. 1:27) is still a little baby in the manger in swaddling clothes, then my explaining God’s Hidden Wisdom in infinite detail will impart NOTHING to you at all, because you need the nurturing of mother’s milk and are not yet able to digest solid food. Your job is to seek out the right ‘tutor’ able to assist you along the right path to maturity, as your inner man grows up from the infant child into the mature man well-able to see the truth of God’s Living Word ‘rightly divided.’ If you choose to select a deluded ear-tickling wantabe Bible commentator as your ‘tutor in Christ,’ then expect to remain sitting in the stench of the dirty diaper of your own design. :0)
My work on this Board is specifically tailored to feed the babes, adolescents and mature members of Christ’s body as “men of faith” (babes), “men of knowledge” (adolescents) and “men of wisdom” (the mature); even if the ‘sons of disobedience’ (Eph. 2:2) and the ‘servants of righteousness’ (2Cor 11:15) think Terral is out of his cotton picking mind. :0)
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
Dispy was doing very well, until he said, “Therefore, we now have everything that God wants us to know.” Ben is using this opportunity to derail his own “God’s Hidden Truth” topic to LuciferVille, as if he knows better than the Greek scholars yet again. Yes, Lucifer is the devil, even if the Hebrew term is “Heylel” (#1966) ‘translated’ into Lucifer only in Isaiah 14:12. The fact that God’s Word is now complete, mature and ‘perfect’ (1Cor. 13:10) in itself does NOT impart His Hidden Wisdom to a single solitary soul! If men acquired God’s Hidden Wisdom by simply reading words, then Satan and his evil cronies of “this darkness” (Eph. 6:12) could know everything, “even the depths of God.” 1Corinhtians 2:10. The simple fact is that we have mature (1Cor. 2:6-8) members of “Christ’s body” (Church #2) for whom this Hidden Wisdom has been revealed AND we have the little infants in Christ (1Cor. 3:1-3) without even a clue as to what any of that really means at all. If simply possessing and reading your Bible imparted the knowledge of God’s Hidden Wisdom (not by a long shot), then why the need for ‘countless tutors’ (1Cor. 4:15) and the ‘pastors and teachers’ (Eph. 4:11) for maturing of the “Body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) into a mature man (Eph. 4:13)? Paul teaches that “Christ’s Body” has MANY members (1Cor. 12:12-14) with some representing the ‘eye’ (1Cor. 12:16) and others the ‘hand’ and even the ‘foot,’ saying,
Right here we can see ‘the truth’ that some members of Christ’s body are ‘more presentable’ having more honor like the eye has over the foot, but God purposely gives “more abundant honor” to the members lacking honor, so there may be no division in the body and we appear as ‘one’ having a greater collective honor worthy of Christ. However (this is the important part), the reason God must bestow greater honor upon the lesser members is because VAST differences appear between the eye (seeing member) and the foot (carrying member) and between the ear (hearing member) and the hand (nurturing member). The rear end of “Christ’s Body” has no clue as to what ‘the eye’ can see, or what ‘the ear’ has been given to hear from God, but our Creator bestows a presentable appearance to ‘all’ members of Christ’s body just the same. Paul just taught the these Corinthians a vital truth in the previous chapter that has full application here, saying,
Since there ‘must’ be divisions in the body (church), so those who ‘are approved’ become evident, then obviously every member of Christ’s body does NOT have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Ben is showing us ‘his version’ with this ‘off topic’ Lucifer nonsense, while Dispy is connecting the dots between God’s Hidden Wisdom and His Infinite Divine Nature seeing the end (1Cor. 15:28 = God “all in all”) from the beginning (Gen. 1:1, John 1:1). Dispy’s interpretations are MUCH nearer to hitting the mark than Ben with his “traditions” rambling about Lucifer, even if both sides fail to realize God’s Hidden Wisdom is enfolded and very much ‘concealed’ within the passages of His Living Word (= Christ). The subtle truth discrediting the conclusions from both of these members is stated loud and clear right here to these Corinthians:
Where is the “God causes the growth” part of the mystery ‘process’ contained within the testimony of Ben or Dispy, as if the reading of mere words imparts God’s Hidden Wisdom to just ANYONE?? No sir. First of all, the readers must decide who is approved to God by ‘rightly dividing the word of truth’ (2Tim. 2:15), because only one man among a thousand with different interpretations can possibly be right; if any of them has things right at all. Paul has already been working with these Corinthians, as evidenced by his “I gave you milk to drink” and “NOT solid food” statements, even if these infants in Christ were still unable to receive it. The primary difference between the eye and the foot for the members of Christ’s body is the new “inner man” (Scripture) enlarging within each believer (diagram) at varying rates and degrees (bigger picture), which helps us define the mature members from those still in diapers. :0)
If “Christ in you” (Col. 1:27) is still a little baby in the manger in swaddling clothes, then my explaining God’s Hidden Wisdom in infinite detail will impart NOTHING to you at all, because you need the nurturing of mother’s milk and are not yet able to digest solid food. Your job is to seek out the right ‘tutor’ able to assist you along the right path to maturity, as your inner man grows up from the infant child into the mature man well-able to see the truth of God’s Living Word ‘rightly divided.’ If you choose to select a deluded ear-tickling wantabe Bible commentator as your ‘tutor in Christ,’ then expect to remain sitting in the stench of the dirty diaper of your own design. :0)
My work on this Board is specifically tailored to feed the babes, adolescents and mature members of Christ’s body as “men of faith” (babes), “men of knowledge” (adolescents) and “men of wisdom” (the mature); even if the ‘sons of disobedience’ (Eph. 2:2) and the ‘servants of righteousness’ (2Cor 11:15) think Terral is out of his cotton picking mind. :0)
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
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