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Does God Hate Witches?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by JohnT, Dec 3, 2020.

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  1. JohnT

    JohnT Regular Member

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    In another thread here, some posters became upset at me about things they wrongly assumed about me and other Christians in general. That is gone.

    Therefore, I begin a new thread (having sought permission) I post this caveat as an official statement from the owners of this site:
    • C&WR is considered an outreach ministry of CF because building relationships based on mutual respect is key to sharing the gospel of Christ.
    • Mutual respect means that members will not mock, degrade or belittle each others' religious beliefs, or make posts that are disruptive to the peace and harmony of the forum.
    • There will be no disrespect shown to Christianity, nor will there be any attempt to discredit or disprove Christianity.
    • Remember that CF is first and foremost a Christian site. Do not make posts which violate our site wide blasphemy and promotion and proselytizing rules.
    My aim is to answer using the Bible as much as possible, letting it speak for itself. Thus, i begin with an affirming statement:
    Even if you are or were involved in the "occult arts" God loves you just as you are.
    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.​

    It is the stated aim of God that all humanity should come to repentance and live with God in His abode, Heaven. In the face of that Scripture, to say differently is to blaspheme the name and purpose of God.

    The "flip side"of that verse is that God loves you too much to let you stay where you are, especially if you do not have an intimate relationship with Him​

    1 Thessalonians 5:
    23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    24 He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.
    Notice the very good news here. If you permit Him to do so, He shall make you sanctified, meaning being able to live with Him in Heaven.

    So there you have it. It is the entire Bible condensed in 3 verses.
     
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  2. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    My understanding is that the word translated as witches originally meant poisoners . In that you shall not suffer a witch to live. Honestly I don’t know and modern day Wiccans seem harmless . My understanding of Wiccans is that they aren’t permitted to cause harm by their religion including self harm. It makes me cringe when Christians threaten them because of that .
     
  3. awitch

    awitch Retired from Christian Forums

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    I would dare go one step farther and say it's not what he wants, but what he demands.
    I would like to ask your take on these 4 Bible verses in relation to the 3 that you shared:

    Leviticus 19:31
    "Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourself unclean by them. I am the Lord your God."

    Exodus 22:18
    "You shall not permit a sorceress to live."
    (I assume this includes men)

    Leviticus 20:27
    "A man or woman is a medium or necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them."

    Revelation 21:8
    "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murders, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake of that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
     
  4. JohnT

    JohnT Regular Member

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    FIRST we need to come to an understanding about what God said. To do otherwise would ultimately lead to a negative discussion of Christianity, which is not permitted by their rules, which I quoted in the OP.
     
  5. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    My understanding ,and I could be wrong, is that Wiccans and other witches don’t worship the Christian God . So trying to say what God says is not going to be a good argument for them . But it does raise the point of how do you explain God to people who don’t believe in Him. I’d have a hard time doing that . Even defending my faith from atheists isn’t easy because with a lot of things they complain about, I agree with them that these are problems that need to be addressed.
     
  6. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    I think Trinity Oneness is core here.

    The concept that Jesus is God, The Father is God, The Holy Spirit is God,

    and

    Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit
    Father is not Jesus or the Holy Spirit
    The Holy Spirit is not Jesus or the Father

    In connection to humans Jesus prayed in John 17 regarding those who believe later on that they be one as Jesus and the Father are one, being described as "I In you, and you in me."

    Which would apply as "I am me, and not you" and "you are you and not me"

    Of the whole in church, we are church or to the greater whole, we are human.

    This is counter to the worldly spiritual oneness which scoffs at "duality" saying:

    I am you and you are me, we are the same.

    This form of unity would result in modalism when applied back to God - thus it is incompatible with Christianity.

    The paranormal application of this form of oneness results in people not being able to see themselves in the soup of everyone else occupying the same space.

    So in terms of repentance or changing one's mind - this might take some time to correct at the foundational level if the "witch" was into that spiritual unity with other people over long distances.
     
  7. awitch

    awitch Retired from Christian Forums

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    The ones I quoted seem to be straight forward with no ambiguity, but I'm listening.
     
  8. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    I think what's necessary when we look at whether or not God "hates" a certain thing or person described by a certain English word or title that is used in the 21st century is to determine what it actually is in the original language and NOT the English word used by the translator.

    We also need to understand the context in which it was written. Who is God applying these rules to and why? Is it because he just universally hates some people or is it because he had a very particular plan or purpose for Israel along with a number of laws and rituals that they needed to follow?

    Note that in Leviticus 19:31 that awitch posted, it says not to seek out a "medium" or "necromancer" and thus make yourself unclean. Being clean or unclean had much to do with a state of ritual purity. Things like touching a dead body or a woman being in her time of the month was also considered unclean.

    I think too many people in the 21st century grab a bible and see verses about "witchcraft" or whatever and think that it means the exact same thing as Wicca or witchcraft today, or even "new age" or all sorts of other things when there really may not be a valid comparison when you look at what it's really talking about in the original language. People also like to pick and choose various laws out of Mosaic law and just randomly apply them to Christianity as it pleases them without understanding why God gave the law to a very specific group of people.

    (There are some Christian denominations that follow the laws in the old covenant, but many if not most others believe that the old covenant has been *replaced* by the new covenant of grace so there is going to be variation here.)
     
  9. JohnT

    JohnT Regular Member

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    You will notice that I am simply asking "What does it say?" Nothing other than having reading comprehension is required.
     
  10. JohnT

    JohnT Regular Member

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    NOPE! Not playing that game.

    What do those verses say, awitch?
     
  11. awitch

    awitch Retired from Christian Forums

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    I'm not sure what "game" you're referring to.

    I'm asking you.
    I'm not even sure I'm qualified to answer since so many Christians have pointed out that I'm incapable of understanding what the Bible means without "having the holy spirit" or "god dwelling in my heart" or some other cliche that means nothing to me.
     
  12. JohnT

    JohnT Regular Member

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    Deliberately, I started with those verses for a reason. Very nicely, I am requesting that you and other posters FIRST deal with their interpretation of those 3 verses before we go off on rabbit trails in the woods.

    That is not too much to ask, is it?
     
  13. JohnT

    JohnT Regular Member

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    What do those verses say, awitch?

    That is EXACTLY the game I am not playing. In order to have a discussion on any positive level, it is necessary to establish a foundation. You seem to be avoiding the creation of a mutually understood foundation.

    I say that because you are "answering" my question with another, different derailing question. That is called "games playing".

    What do those 3 verses say, awitch?
     
  14. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."

    They go against God so. God is truth.. everything else out side of GOD is not truth. Why Christ said.. I am the way the truth and the life. He is the only way to the Father.
     
  15. JohnT

    JohnT Regular Member

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    I plan to deal with John 6:14 at a later point in this thread. Thanks for your input.
     
  16. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And who is "you" in the scripture you are referring to. To find out you have to go back to 2 peter 1:1

    Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

    So you see, the "you" there us not witches Peter is talking to or about, but to those who have "recieved a faith".
     
  17. awitch

    awitch Retired from Christian Forums

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    I'm asking you what your quotes mean and I'm asking you what my quotes mean in relation to the question that you posed, and then you accuse me of game playing, derailing, and avoiding an understanding?

    Perhaps it would be best if I bowed out now.
     
  18. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor Supporter

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    I have a whole different understanding of God and of our spiritual relationship with the Divine than the OP lays out. So I'm pretty sure that the answers I'd give would not work very well with the Christian audience here. I'm kind of wondering if it's the same with awitch.
     
  19. JohnT

    JohnT Regular Member

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    I do not think that it is necessary to go that far back to find the antecedent of "you". Pronouns are most often very close to their antecedent. Look at the first part of chapter 3:


    There is the "you" in verse 1, which refers to believers. And in verses, 3 and 4, Peter mentions the scoffers. Depending upon how one exegetes the referent to the pronoun, the one closest to the last "you" is scoffers, and to go further back, the referent is 'the beloved" in verse 1. Thus, there are two equally probable referents: "scoffers" and "beloved"


    So you can see an alternative referent is equally valid?
     
  20. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    I will give you my take even though you weren't asking me.

    What I see mentioned is sorcerers, mediums, and necromancers - people who seek help from spiritual beings and particularly spirits of the deceased.

    Revelation also mentions idolaters - people who seek help from gods and goddesses.

    The mention of "liars" seems that it would include almost everybody.
     
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