Does free will exist?

[The Engineer]

But do you agree that if the proposition is not true that "An Intelligent Being created the universe with Intention" then all that we see around us (the whole universe) came to be or appear by pure random chance?

No.

Even if you do not know the probability of such a thing do you see that this is the only alternative in general?

No.

Show me where St. Thomas committed this fallacy in his 5 proofs of God's existence.

St. Thomas sure did not commit this fallacy, but you did.

Aristotle was not a Christian and he reasoned that there must be a Prime Mover. This would be the unmoved Mover.

Doesn't matter who made the argument if the argument is wrong.

Here you are committing the fallacy of appeal to ignorance.

That's not appeal to ignorance. It's acceptance of the fact that the burden of proof lies on the one who makes a positive claim.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Why is there order and consistency in the universe?
Why are there regular patterns and seasons?
Why do other planets (not the Earth) move in space?
Why is there beauty?
Why is there life?
Why is there intelligent life?
Why are there human beings with personality?
Why is there love in relationships between or among persons?
Why is there wickedness and lawlessness among humans?
Why is there holiness and sanctity as heroic as that of Blessed Mother Theresa of Calcutta or Saint Francis of Assisi?
Why are there a multitude of miracles which are beyond the scope of scientific explanation?

And the greatest of all ... why did Jesus Christ RISE from the dead on the third day?

And there is one more ... why did St. Thomas come to believe?

You are always free to explain all this stuff yourself. For instance:

Why is there beauty? Why? Why? Why, oh why?

Won't happen of course.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Rather than talking about 'free will', which breeds all sorts of confusion, i'd rather refer to it as freedom. We act in accordance with our greatest desire at any given moment. This is a free action, no one is forcing you to do it. However it is free within the limitation of nature, which determines what it actually is we seek in the first place. If that makes sense.

Well, I guess you can be forced to act against your will and desires. It is only if you act in accordance with what you desire that you can be said to be free.

 

[KCfromNC]

But do you agree that if the proposition is not true that "An Intelligent Being created the universe with Intention" then all that we see around us (the whole universe) came to be or appear by pure random chance?

Nope. It's possible that the universe was created by deterministic non-intelligent processes, to pick just one example. Or it could have been accidentally created by an intelligence. No need to focus in on God vs random chance as the only two options.

 

[AHJE]

Nope. It's possible that the universe was created by deterministic non-intelligent processes, to pick just one example. Or it could have been accidentally created by an intelligence. No need to focus in on God vs random chance as the only two options.

Deterministic implies no free will or intentionality, correct?
Kind of like dominoes falling upon one another in a chain of cause and effect?

So a mindless process like this brought all the dazzling and stupendous universe into existence? This sounds like a fancy way of saying pure random chance.

Or, you say, it could have been accidentally created by an intelligence. Kind of like, "Oops, look what I did ... I created a marvelous universe out of nothing!" (A beautiful universe at that.) Can we seriously entertain this? Is this not akin to saying that Beethoven accidentally composed the 5th Symphony?

This too sounds like pure random chance.

God love you.

 

[KCfromNC]

Deterministic implies no free will or intentionality, correct?

No.

So a mindless process like this brought all the dazzling and stupendous universe into existence? This sounds like a fancy way of saying pure random chance.

Nope. Deterministic is pretty much the opposite of random chance.

Or, you say, it could have been accidentally created by an intelligence. Kind of like, "Oops, look what I did ... I created a marvelous universe out of nothing!" (A beautiful universe at that.) Can we seriously entertain this?

So says the guy pitching a creation story where man is created by someone breathing on dust and then tempted by a talking snake. Do you really want to compare how crazy the various ideas sound?

 

[windy35]

Do you think free will exists? If so, which form of free will do you believe in?

Sorry if there's already a thread like this. The search function yielded nothing, at least for me.

I will elaborate on my position later. Don't have the time to do so right now.

This point is a paradox. I am free to do whatever it is I want like go get a job, go eat something, etc, etc.... But if I wanted to live forever, and never die I couldn't control that by free will since every living creature dies. Also there are times that I could exercise my free will, but restrain from doing so. I could tell everyone that I hate that I hate them, but knowing that it would get a bad reaction I will not do that. I guess I have the freedom to do that if I wanted to, but the idea of a bad reaction would really keep me from exercising my freedom to do that. Sometimes it can get confusing when you should exercise your free will and when you shouldn't. You want total freedom, but sometimes you feel restrained by society. So the real question is how much of your freedom should you exercise, and how much of your freedom should be restrained.

 

[Gracchus]

I can always choose what seems to be my best real opportunity. In fact I always do. I never choose what I don't want. It may be forced upon me, but it is not a matter of free will. I can, within the limits of reality, do as I like, and, in fact, I can do no other.

Free will is a comforting delusion.

 

[twinc]

Freewill also denotes choice - so lets just take a quick look at the major events in our lives and see we were not consulted or had any choice viz where and when we were born - who we were born to [our parents],our relatives and even our friends - sex[male or female] - our country - or religion/culture - colour of our skin,eyes,hair - able or disabled - brainy or dumb etc - our parents gave us much of the form and force,the health and disease.of our body when they gave its germ with the genes.thus from the very beginning our physical life is fated for better or worse to follow a predestined course and life merely unfolds and often mercilessly unfolds our individual story. We are then merely hapless spectators listening to the tale[Brunton] - more later - twinc

 

[elopez]

Deterministic implies no free will or intentionality, correct?

Not entirely. Determinism implies past events and occurrences abide for the future events to happen. Free will means the ability to do what we desire to do without any external or internal factors forcing or preventing us from acting. Free will also means mentally comprehending our actions and any consequences.

What about those two ideas are mutually exclusive?

Kind of like dominoes falling upon one another in a chain of cause and effect?

Exactly like this. This is known as causal determinism. Think about it in terms of creation. We can trace every moment in the past back to God's first creative act. God's first creative act gave way to the subsequent events such as the universe existing, the earth, and man, down to the Fall and the atonement to where we currently are.

So a mindless process like this brought all the dazzling and stupendous universe into existence? This sounds like a fancy way of saying pure random chance.

It's not a mindless process if God is behind it. Determinism is not random, especially in relation to God. There is only one outcome.

Or, you say, it could have been accidentally created by an intelligence. Kind of like, "Oops, look what I did ... I created a marvelous universe out of nothing!" (A beautiful universe at that.) Can we seriously entertain this? Is this not akin to saying that Beethoven accidentally composed the 5th Symphony?

The universe was not accidentally created, God had an intention to create, and once He did it started a causal chain of events.

 

[Mustang56]

Technically I believe free will DOES exist, but man's law greatly hinders it. Not saying this is a bad thing since man's law promotes morality and prevents a sort of survival of the fittest society (laws protect the little guy just as much as the big guy)

You aren't physically bound to your home. If you really wanted to, with absolute possibility, you could go venture out anywhere in your country (unless law prevents you), you could go to a near by forest preserve and try to live off the land.

Obviously you wouldn't do that, it's irrational compared to your orderly life at home already. So, technically it's a yes and no answer in my opinion.

 

[WonderBeat]

Nothing exists, so that includes free will.

 

[Gracchus]

Nothing exists, so that includes free will.

That means you don't exist, so you can't have an opinion, or even a thought. It takes a mind to produce a thought and your mind doesn't exist.

I can almost believe it, but I call:

TROLL!

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I believe compatiblist free will exists. The will's freedom from compulsion can exist in the same way that my not wearing make up exists. It is free in relation to a potential set of states not presently realised, like being bound and put in a cellar, or having lipstick on. And it is free to enact a set member, eg eat carrots, if that choice can be realised without being forced upon me against my will.

The wills freedom from and freedom to is a relation, like a mountain being bigger than an ant is a relation. Whether that makes it an "abstract object" I am not 100% sure. Perhaps the will is concrete and understanding its freedom involves abstraction.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

If free will didn't exist you would not recognize it, therefore Free Will exist.

to say not, is to with your Will determine it doesn't, which is Self Referentially Refuting.

Even if we didn't have free will all the time, we still have, Free Will, which I love because it disproves "materialism", which disproves "naturalism" as if we were strictly mindless matter we would have no free will, we have Free Will, therefore the mind is Immaterial.

 

[madaz]

Some nation's and/or religions restrict the freedom of their people however freewill certainly does exist otherwise.