does EO believe this?

[Noxot]

First post here. I don't think the menstruation thing is a misconception, because in our prayers before taking communion we ask that Christ's body become one with ours, it is in our blood, it is us. The blood and body of our Lord is precious, and so none of it may be defiled, people who are bleeding may not take communion.

well then I guess by that logic, that people that have suffered for Christ and are bleeding are not allowed to partake. that sounds weird to me. I could totally see a saint bleeding and wanting to partake of the body and blood. but I guess that is not something that is common.

but I was wondering how someone is defiled for their body doing the natural thing that God made it to do for the womans own health? I thought Jesus told us that it is the heart of humans which defile, not the outside.

 

[Antonios]

The person isn't defiled, it is defiling to the blood and body of our Lord to spill it from our bodies.

 

[Faithful Skeptic]

mystery? like when there is so much light that it blinds you? I prayed and received some good things, but I was wondering how closely EO believes compared to me. do they have some sort of thing where more knowledgeable people meet and can teach each other the deeper things of God? do any churches even do that nowadays? i would hope they would not even let me be a part of that group, since I feel that i am not holy enough. that would be perfect!

A monastery, seriously. Knowledge in Orthodoxy comes through theosis, and monasteries are pretty much designed to be theosis factories. That isn't to say all monks have such knowledge, just that monasteries are a good place to seek out such knowledge. Even staying there for a week or a month yourself could help you get closer to God and therefore share a bit more in His knowledge.

but I really do not want to enter into a church just to be called a heretic. how would you feel if you went to a place that says they are the one true church and then when you go you get no food at all except old wheat with fungus on it? if that is the case then why even go? that fungus can cause health problems. I am not saying anyone at EO give such food though. but what if I have certain things wrong with me, where I really do not want to be around people? then I will much less not want to go to a place just to see that it is not good for me to go.

No one would call an inquirer a heretic. A heretic is someone that was Orthodox and then abandons Orthodox doctrine(s). The Church is very welcoming to seekers, I'm sure you'd feel even more at home at a convert-heavy Church, where there will be many in attendance that were in the position you are now in at some point in their lives. From my experience, OCA churches tend to have more converts as most of their liturgies are entirely in English. Where does this fungus bread thing come from, though? Are you talking about antidoron? Antidoron is the leftover from the bread that was used in the Eucharist, it is blessed over the Eucharist during its preparation, which makes it more than just "leftover bread" at that point. It's fresh, however, as it's from the same loaves that were used in the Eucharist. All in attendance usually take some antidoron after the liturgy, whether Orthodox or not. There isn't a special moldy batch kept in-case there is a non-Orthodox in attendance that day. You say you don't want to go to a place if you don't know if it will be good for you or not, but how will you ever find the answer to that question if you never go? If you have agoraphobic issues and you're scared to attend, then I suggest you find a parish near you, and one that you may want to go to down the line, and communicate with the priest there. Youtube is full of videos of Orthodox liturgies of all kinds. Be it in Greek, Arabic, Russian, Korean, Japanese, Spanish, English, etc. Take a look around there if you're curious, but I suggest starting with an English video, as that would probably be the most familiar for you.

Actually, here's part of an OCA Divine Liturgy (don't worry, if you don't feel comfortable saying the creed, no one will notice you didn't).
YouTube - ‪Divine Liturgy at Holy Trinity Orthodox Church 08/02/09‬‏

 

[gzt]

We're all on a slow journey from heresy to truth. Now, here is what would get you called a heretic (you have to go through all the steps):
1. become Orthodox
2. be instructed adequately in the faith
3. openly teach heresy
4. get correction about your heresy
5. persist in teaching heresy

There might be a couple levels of escalation (ie, repetition of 4 and 5).

So you're not going to get called a heretic when you visit an Orthodox parish for the first time.

 

[wayseer]

mystery? like when there is so much light that it blinds you?

Of course, silly of me, how could I have missed what you were saying?

You already know all the answers.

Lord have Mercy.

 

[buzuxi02]

The reason why menstruating women are asked to refrain from taking communion is because of the reverence we hold of the holy Eucharist. This abstention was the common practise of the Aexandrian church. The Roman Church gave the option, she may recieve if she yearns too, but may refrain if the reason is out of piety.

To give you further background to understand. the reason God forbids the eating of blood in the OT is because the blood contains the lifeforce of the animal and makes man more carnal more animalistic. The recieving of Christ's blood does the opposite, makes the entire body holy. When a pious Orthodox christian cuts himself after recieving communion he is careful not to let his blood drip, he prefers to suck on his bleeding finger, that which is holy is treated as such. Since menses spills blood, it was viewed as sacrilege to recieve while menstruating.

Mt Athos imports chickens which are all female creatures, how do you think they get the gold leaf look on icons, they use egg yolks for the gold pigment.

The 40 day churching is more deep and metaphysical than what the western sects believe. Anglicanism cannot even grasp the meaning of this phenomenon, which is important in the Orthodox Church. Thank-God the ancients were able to see the mystery.

When a woman gets pregnant and ceases to have her menstrual cycle, it is as if she left her mortal state and is elevated into a divine state. Its as if she has left the earth entering into the divine realm. She has become a partaker of creation with her Creator. She is a kind of co-agent with God in creating a new life. Her menstrual cycle returns approximately 40 days after birth in which is seen as the mother having fully descended from the heavenly spiritual state back to her mortal earthly state. She then brings her creation, the new anthropo to Church, to present it to the community.

No, its not simply "we do it because Jesus mother did it", the traditions behind these customs are more deep and mysterious than todays shallow thinkers of the sects believe.

 

[Coralie]

The reason why menstruating women are asked to refrain from taking communion is because of the reverence we hold of the holy Eucharist. This abstention was the common practise of the Aexandrian church. The Roman Church gave the option, she may recieve if she yearns too, but may refrain if the reason is out of piety.

To give you further background to understand. the reason God forbids the eating of blood in the OT is because the blood contains the lifeforce of the animal and makes man more carnal more animalistic. The recieving of Christ's blood does the opposite, makes the entire body holy. When a pious Orthodox christian cuts himself after recieving communion he is careful not to let his blood drip, he prefers to suck on his bleeding finger, that which is holy is treated as such. Since menses spills blood, it was viewed as sacrilege to recieve while menstruating.

Mt Athos imports chickens which are all female creatures, how do you think they get the gold leaf look on icons, they use egg yolks for the gold pigment.

The 40 day churching is more deep and metaphysical than what the western sects believe. Anglicanism cannot even grasp the meaning of this phenomenon, which is important in the Orthodox Church. Thank-God the ancients were able to see the mystery.

When a woman gets pregnant and ceases to have her menstrual cycle, it is as if she left her mortal state and is elevated into a divine state. Its as if she has left the earth entering into the divine realm. She has become a partaker of creation with her Creator. She is a kind of co-agent with God in creating a new life. Her menstrual cycle returns approximately 40 days after birth in which is seen as the mother having fully descended from the heavenly spiritual state back to her mortal earthly state. She then brings her creation, the new anthropo to Church, to present it to the community.

No, its not simply "we do it because Jesus mother did it", the traditions behind these customs are more deep and mysterious than todays shallow thinkers of the sects believe.

thank you for this wonderful post, i learn something new here every day.

 

[Antony in Tx]

mystery? like when there is so much light that it blinds you? I prayed and received some good things, but I was wondering how closely EO believes compared to me. do they have some sort of thing where more knowledgeable people meet and can teach each other the deeper things of God? do any churches even do that nowadays? i would hope they would not even let me be a part of that group, since I feel that i am not holy enough. that would be perfect!

but I really do not want to enter into a church just to be called a heretic. how would you feel if you went to a place that says they are the one true church and then when you go you get no food at all except old wheat with fungus on it? if that is the case then why even go? that fungus can cause health problems. I am not saying anyone at EO give such food though. but what if I have certain things wrong with me, where I really do not want to be around people? then I will much less not want to go to a place just to see that it is not good for me to go.

Fr. Thomas Hopko -- The Homosexual Christian

that seemed to give a good view on the orthodox position, thanks. I heard some EO say something that sounded like ( not their exact words and perhaps not even what the person meant, but what I perceived it as ) " homosexuals just have to be celibate"

which does not make sense to me. but Fr. Thomas Hopko seemed to not hold that position.

sometimes it just seems impossible to find a good church, I really do not want to get ensnared by the wrong church. o well, most of them seem to lack so much now a days. I was really looking for a church like the ones in acts. you know, the one where they all help each other out and stuff.

You're focus on the issue of homosexuality and celibacy suggests that perhaps you are hoping to find an EO niche where a person living an openly homosexual lifestyle that is not celibate would be welcomed and validated as not being sinful. This will not happen, just like it will not happen for a heterosexual to be welcomed and validated for living an openly non-celibate lifestyle outside of marriage. And yes, the Orthodox view marriage as a Holy Mystery between one man and one woman. This is not negotiable and not interpreted in any degree of variation throughout the Church.

 

[Antonios]

If they cannot lose their homosexuality, they must remain celibate. Perhaps investigate the possibility of a monastic life, like the Blessed Father Seraphim of Platina.

 

[choirfiend]

When a woman gets pregnant and ceases to have her menstrual cycle, it is as if she left her mortal state and is elevated into a divine state. Its as if she has left the earth entering into the divine realm. She has become a partaker of creation with her Creator. She is a kind of co-agent with God in creating a new life. Her menstrual cycle returns approximately 40 days after birth in which is seen as the mother having fully descended from the heavenly spiritual state back to her mortal earthly state. She then brings her creation, the new anthropo to Church, to present it to the community.

Well, that's a lovely sentiment, but not very accurate, and probably not really the reason. Around 40 days is when a woman might finally stop bleeding lochia, the contents of the uterus after the baby is born. Her regular menstrual cycle might not return for 6month to a year or longer.

The part about partaking in creation with the Creator is accurate, but trying to apply that to the 40 days is not. Women were physically worn down, bleeding, bonding with their babies, establishing nursing, and recovering from their labor before resuming regular work and societal duties. It's about God giving us a rest, just like the sabbath, not related to her menstrual cycle.

 

[-Kyriaki-]

I'm really curious as the feminists being anti the 40 days (and certain things to do with one's period, too) - it's a cultural concession to women not having to work, maternity leave in an ancient society, and the same would be true for a woman on her period, gives her a chance to rest (this is a world without ibuprofen, remember!).

If anything, it's a wonderful gift to women. Here where I live most Greek women are still traditional and as much as possible observe the 40 days, so they stay home and don't leave the house unless they absolutely must. People come to visit, their husband, children or other family do the shopping and the harder chores (sweeping, vacuuming, anything involving much bending or lifting) and let Mum and baby rest. It's not exactly imprisonment, what mother wouldn't want a month and a half to stay home with her child and not have to do anything?

 

[buzuxi02]

Well, that's a lovely sentiment, but not very accurate, and probably not really the reason. Around 40 days is when a woman might finally stop bleeding lochia, the contents of the uterus after the baby is born. Her regular menstrual cycle might not return for 6month to a year or longer.

The part about partaking in creation with the Creator is accurate, but trying to apply that to the 40 days is not. Women were physically worn down, bleeding, bonding with their babies, establishing nursing, and recovering from their labor before resuming regular work and societal duties. It's about God giving us a rest, just like the sabbath, not related to her menstrual cycle.

Why not 30 days or 50 days then? The 40 days was borrowed by the hebrews from the egyptians (likwise the 40 day memorial), but variations of celebrating the 40th day is found in many cultures such as India and even many muslims in Pakistan still observe it. The point is there are metaphysical explanations behind the 40 days, whether culturally one is taught to wait 6 weeks before sex or that afterbirth bleeding lasts up to 40 days or a mother and mother and baby are cold after 40 days, the number is given a metaphysical meaning.

 

[Noxot]

You're focus on the issue of homosexuality and celibacy suggests that perhaps you are hoping to find an EO niche where a person living an openly homosexual lifestyle that is not celibate would be welcomed and validated as not being sinful. This will not happen, just like it will not happen for a heterosexual to be welcomed and validated for living an openly non-celibate lifestyle outside of marriage. And yes, the Orthodox view marriage as a Holy Mystery between one man and one woman. This is not negotiable and not interpreted in any degree of variation throughout the Church.

Not at all, I would be opposed if EO allowed such things.

Of course, silly of me, how could I have missed what you were saying?

You already know all the answers.

Lord have Mercy.

no I do not. sorry that I seem that way to you.

I really do not want a religion, I wanted to be in love. I just can not tell if EO is good for me or not. thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Faithful Skeptic]

Here's another take of our stance on homosexuality: An Eastern Orthodox Priest talks about Homosexuality

 

[thefirstjustin]

> our views on homosexuality are conservative. Marriage is between a man and a woman, sex is for marriage, etc. It's not a sin to be gay, it's a sin to have sex outside of marriage. We have a highly respected and beloved Orthodox writer, Fr. Seraphim Rose, who lived a homosexual life before converting to Orthodoxy. Many people consider him to be a saint.

Let me preface this by saying this comment is not directed at Coralie personally, but to expound on one of her comments.

Blessed Fr. Seraphim did repent and conquer that struggle. It's one thing to struggle, but it's a totally different thing to embrace it and not struggle against it. Some people have a struggle with anger, some with laziness, and others with lust be it heterosexual or homosexual. The important thing that we must all remember is that we are not defined by our sin, but we are defined by our essence as humans. Our sin is a sickness that we must seek a cure from. I find it very interesting that the homosexual community has defined themselves as such by wearing shirts and pins that highlight their "gay" pride, but you don't people defining themselves with other sins, such as masturbation and having masturbation pride parades.

 

[choirfiend]

Why not 30 days or 50 days then? The 40 days was borrowed by the hebrews from the egyptians (likwise the 40 day memorial), but variations of celebrating the 40th day is found in many cultures such as India and even many muslims in Pakistan still observe it. The point is there are metaphysical explanations behind the 40 days, whether culturally one is taught to wait 6 weeks before sex or that afterbirth bleeding lasts up to 40 days or a mother and mother and baby are cold after 40 days, the number is given a metaphysical meaning.

Sure---there's 40 days in the desert of fasting before taking on tasks, 40 years in the desert before entering the promised land, 40 days of rest before re-entering the church, we say 40 Lord have mercys for these reasons....But your explanation is just totally biologically wrong. God uses 40 for various things--but your assigned metaphysical meaning is off base.

 

[Faithful Skeptic]

Blessed Fr. Seraphim did repent and conquer that struggle. It's one thing to struggle, but it's a totally different thing to embrace it and not struggle against it. Some people have a struggle with anger, some with laziness, and others with lust be it heterosexual or homosexual. The important thing that we must all remember is that we are not defined by our sin, but we are defined by our essence as humans. Our sin is a sickness that we must seek a cure from. I find it very interesting that the homosexual community has defined themselves as such by wearing shirts and pins that highlight their "gay" pride, but you don't people defining themselves with other sins, such as masturbation and having masturbation pride parades.

Not to attack your point that it's now politically correct to be prideful in some sins, which I agree with, but I think choosing masturbation as an example of one people are not proud of yet probably wasn't the best choice. I'm pretty sure there have been parades of that sort. Maybe murderer parades, rapist parades or thief parades would be better examples. Actually, I just noticed the complete irony in modern society's trying to make homosexuality seem ok and unsinful. They attach the term "pride" to it, whereas the sin of pride is arguably the worst of them all. So instead of making it acceptable, they seem to be making the situation all that much worse. To excuse one's sin is a bad enough error, to have pride in it, though, is far, far worse. They took a sexual sin that is forgivable into a "super-sin" which makes repenting of it that much more exceedingly difficult.

 

[gzt]

Except I really don't think it's useful or helpful at all to compare homosexual activity with murder, rape, or theft.

 

[buzuxi02]

Oh yes, all we sectarians are just shallow, unlike the deep Orthodox who are so mystical.

This is the sort of comment that tends to make people think the Orthodox really are not what they claim.

My comments are more geared towards western critical thinking. The sects are obviously of western origins so they harbor liberal western ways of thinking. Even though the west thinks it places high value on education, when it comes to certain things they remain surface thinkers. I myself am a westerner of european descent but am definately self-hating with how far the west has degenerated.

 

[thefirstjustin]

Not to attack your point that it's now politically correct to be prideful in some sins, which I agree with, but I think choosing masturbation as an example of one people are not proud of yet probably wasn't the best choice. I'm pretty sure there have been parades of that sort. Maybe murderer parades, rapist parades or thief parades would be better examples. Actually, I just noticed the complete irony in modern society's trying to make homosexuality seem ok and unsinful. They attach the term "pride" to it, whereas the sin of pride is arguably the worst of them all. So instead of making it acceptable, they seem to be making the situation all that much worse. To excuse one's sin is a bad enough error, to have pride in it, though, is far, far worse. They took a sexual sin that is forgivable into a "super-sin" which makes repenting of it that much more exceedingly difficult.

There were very good reasons why I chose to use masturbation as an example: 1) just like homosexuality we hear the modern culture telling us that it's ok, natural, and there's nothing sinful with it. 2) just like homosexuality, there are many people who are quoting scientific research to say that it's normal and healthy in some cases. In fact there's an episode of Scrubs where one male character tells another to engage in the act to relieve some stress and tension. 3) I still have yet to hear of high school boys and college freshmen stand up and proudly proclaim in their school's cafeteria, "I touch, and I'm proud!", but I known of an incident when a couple of students a year after I graduated high school stood up in the cafeteria and proclaimed their homosexuality.

And I do agree with you that the sin is made much worse when pride is attached to it, but there are one percenter motorcycle clubs who have patches that are awarded to members for violent acts such as rape and murder and for some of those clubs theft is a way of life as they steal motorcycles and other objects. So by wearing those patches, they are proclaiming pride in their sin.

I actually thought about using murder, rape, and theft as examples, but I know that some people would have had a huge problem with it. So I chose to compare it to a sin that is in the same category, especially since self-abuse is considered by the Church to be a very serious sin.