Does Calvinism Deny Freewill Absolutely?

[Dedicated Mind]

Is God's election based on His foreknowledge of our freewill choices or does calvinism deny freewill absolutely? thanks for any comments (I'm truly learning)

 

[The Conductor]

Most Calvinists believe in free will, in the sense that we are responsible for our choices and that they are, in fact, our choices. We don't, however, believe that people choose God unless the Holy Spirit calls them.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Contrary to popular belief, the answer is absolutely not.

From the Westminster Confession of Faith:

"CHAPTER 9
OF FREE WILL

1. God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that it is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined to good, or evil.

2. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God; but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.

3. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

4. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin; and, by his grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly, nor only, will that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.

5. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone, in the state of glory only." - LINK

One of the classic Puritan works on the subject is Jonathan Edwards "Freedom of the Will", which is not an easy read by any stretch of the imagination.

On this subject, I always like to recommend "The Bondage and Liberation of the Will" by John Calvin

Probably one of the best modern treatments of the subject would be R.C. Sproul's "Willing to Believe". Sproul is easier to read, and the particular book mentioned includes a historical survey of the subject.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Is God's election based on His foreknowledge of our freewill choices or does calvinism deny freewill absolutely? thanks for any comments (I'm truly learning)

Although one needs to define free will first before commenting on either it's existence or absence, i can tell you that Calvinists do not believe that election is based on Foreknowledge exclusively.

Calvinism teaches that man cannot and will not accept the gospel without the intervention of God because of man's depravity.

God's foreknowledge is therefore based on His choice to act on a particular individual or His choice to not act on a particular individual.

It is not based on any particular individual's choices. That would make salvation a 'joint effort of cooperation' between God and man. The bible teaches that salvation is the work of God alone.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Basically Calvinists recognize and prioritize the "free will" of God above and over creation, over the limited freedom of finite creatures.

 

[Dedicated Mind]

Although one needs to define free will first before commenting on either it's existence or absence, i can tell you that Calvinists do not believe that election is based on Foreknowledge exclusively.

Calvinism teaches that man cannot and will not accept the gospel without the intervention of God because of man's depravity.

God's foreknowledge is therefore based on His choice to act on a particular individual or His choice to not act on a particular individual.

It is not based on any particular individual's choices. That would make salvation a 'joint effort of cooperation' between God and man. The bible teaches that salvation is the work of God alone.

i thought foreknowledge of free will was a good compromise. if what you are saying is true, that it is god's choice, then how do you square that with, "God is not a respecter of persons and is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance"?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

i thought foreknowledge of free will was a good compromise. if what you are saying is true, that it is god's choice, then how do you square that with, "God is not a respecter of persons and is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance"?

God is not a racist and is not willing that any of the elect Jew or Gentile should perish but that all the elect come to repentance.

The surrounding context and the greater context support this.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

i thought foreknowledge of free will was a good compromise. if what you are saying is true, that it is god's choice, then how do you square that with, "God is not a respecter of persons and is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance"?

i will grant that it is a good attempt. However, there is still the basic problem of having what God decreed from all eternity being based on the 'free will' choice --what ever that means-- of the creature. That means that the decree of God is dependent on the creature, instead of the creature being dependent on the decree of a sovereign God.

Either God is sovereign or He is not.

i square that passage with the basic fact that people do perish and spend eternity in Hell, therefore God cannot be speaking of every single person without exception --the meaning of the word 'all' in the passage, does it mean all without exception, or 'all kinds of people'?--. If God willed that all without exception come to repentence, then they would, for "Who has resisted His will?" Therefore the passage cannot mean that God is not willing that any without exception should perish.

The passage is really a straw man though. Apostolics/United Pentacostals believe that at least some perish, and they are stuck with the same apparent contradiction that you have pointed out.
God is not a respecter of persons in that all are under a penalty of eternal damnation, yet some --without respect of who they are or what they have done or not done-- get mercy.

You still need to give a working definition of 'free will' because even some of the Reformed use the term, but convey a different meaning to it other than 'Libertarian Free Will'. Without defining your terms, it is difficult to impossible to have an intelligent discussion:

If you say 'orange' meaning a citris fruit grown primarily in Florida and California, and i say 'orange' meaning a colour in the visible light spectrum between red and yellow, we simply cannot have an intelligent discussion, because we are not defining the terms in the same manner.

 

[JM]

Calvinists deny libertarian freewill.

We are sinners by nature and are not free to act otherwise until the Holy Spirit regenerates us.

We are sinners by nature and we are sinners by choice for we willing act upon our sinful inclinations.

 

[bricklayer]

Free will is not found in the bible.

We do not choose from undetermined possiblities.

God cannot come to know anything not even in advance.

 

[sdowney717]

i thought foreknowledge of free will was a good compromise. if what you are saying is true, that it is god's choice, then how do you square that with, "God is not a respecter of persons and is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance"?

How do you square that with what Peter states. Peter also implies it is both with God, not willing that any should perish and also calling by election, choice of God. Peter shows both sides of this.

Firstly

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.


2ndly
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,

“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”[c]
8 and,

“A stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”[d]

They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.

9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God;
once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.


2 Peter
3 Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2 I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.

3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]

11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


With God not wishing or desiring any to perish, this shows the Masters heart.
Think of when Jesus talked about the tree bearing no fruit, which God told Him, why should it use up the ground, rip it out!

The gardner says lets fertilize it and try and help it, and if it still bears no fruit, then rip it out of the ground. In the end it is true that the unelect tree will never bear fruit or the right kind of fruit, and so its end is to be burned. But the tree had a chance on its own, but by nature it could not do what they wanted.

It is like this with God. In my limited understanding of Him, I see the kindness and severity of God, who is patient but not infinitely so. He gives people all sorts of time, although He knows their end. He does this like in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Abraham told the rich man when he was alive, he received his good things, and Lazarus his bad things. And now the rich man receives his bad things and Lazarus his good things. this seems unfair! Eternity is forever, but this is the choice and justice of God, to do with His creation that which he wants.

Really it has to do with not our self sufficiency but HIS providence and mercy, His work not ours in coming to Him.

Look at UNELECT Cain vs Abel. Cain works the ground hard to force it to yield fruit, actually against what God said it would yield which is thorns and briars and thistles. God has no respect for Cain's efforts to offer sacrifice and worship and approach Himself. So Cain is rejected and Abel is accepted.

Abel however offers the blood sacrifice, remember when God killed the animals because Adam and Eve sinned? Abel followed the pattern that there is no forgiveness or acceptance or getting right with God unless a death occurs. The souls that sin shall die.

Since all men sin, then all are predestined to death. So it is by His mercy that saves us, not through any works that we do. Since He is sovereign and knows and determines all things for His own purposes, by His own nature, since He is the LORD GOD, some then are elected, chosen, and some are not elected, not chosen.

Our nature must be transformed, we must become new creations in Christ, otherwise we are like the unelect dead tree, destined to be uprooted and thrown in the fire.