Does Cain’s punishment support evolution?

[juvenissun]

That's the thing - we don't know. The Bible doesn't say who she was. It's unlikely that it was his sister or relative though.

Marriage between siblings should be fine in early human (say, before Noah). Modern human biology may not apply to them, since it does not apply to Adam and Eve.

All these are very odd to the idea of evolution. So, TE does not make any sense.

 

[Keachian]

Well,there is a problem with the ''everyone came from Adam and Eve'' theology.
It uses evolution,Christian evolution,to support every one of every family and nation came from one man and
woman.i.e...negroes,Asians,Pygmies,natives,Tribal groups,Aboriginies etc etc

Can neanderthal man be saved? Did neanderthal man come from Adam and Eve?Or what about Peking man?

That's more or less asking the question, when did we become humans? Our humanity theologically speaking is rather different to us being physically human, the more I look into the question of what exactly is Imago Dei the more I find I'm unable to specifically answer your question sufficiently. So to make it short I don't know and nor do I believe it is that relevant to my faith, the things that are relevant as pertaining to your question are that all humanity is of one species and all are able to be saved by the grace of God paid for by the blood of Christ on a cross some 2000 years ago. All Christians are of the new humanity or becoming the new humanity as is seen through Christ's life.

 

[Keachian]

Marriage between siblings should be fine in early human (say, before Noah). Modern human biology may not apply to them, since it does not apply to Adam and Eve.

I see no reason why we should assume that modern human biology doesn't apply to Adam and Eve.

All these are very odd to the idea of evolution. So, TE does not make any sense.

Conjecture based on random assumptions

 

[dagelos]

That's more or less asking the question, when did we become humans? Our humanity theologically speaking is rather different to us being physically human, the more I look into the question of what exactly is Imago Dei the more I find I'm unable to specifically answer your question sufficiently. So to make it short I don't know and nor do I believe it is that relevant to my faith, the things that are relevant as pertaining to your question are that all humanity is of one species and all are able to be saved by the grace of God paid for by the blood of Christ on a cross some 2000 years ago. All Christians are of the new humanity or becoming the new humanity as is seen through Christ's life.

Jesus came only for Israel,not the world...

Matthew 15:24:But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Luke 1:68:Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Matthew 1:21:And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Matthew 2:6:And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.



Can you prove all people's are one species?Do you have any passages to back up that claim/theory?
Do you assume all people are one species(From Adam and Eve)?
If everyone is from one species,surely the neanderthal man or Peking man is related to Adam's family?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Matthew 1:21:And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Matthew 15:24:But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

1John 2:22 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Romans 15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people .



I see him gathering both into one, they say not for our sins (only) but the sins of the whole world, he being sent as a minister unto the circumcision whereas he prays and sends his to preach the gospel to all nations. And prays not only for them but for them who would in him believe through their word.

 

[Keachian]

I'd agree with Fireinfolding's refutation of your proof texts.

Can you prove all people's are one species?
Do you have any passages to back up that claim/theory?

Genetically yes we are all one species, theologically yes.
For there is neither Greek nor Jew in Christ, slave nor freeman, male nor female.
Christ also said that he could raise sons of Abraham from out of rocks so there is no reason to limit the scope of Salvation

Do you assume all people are one species(From Adam and Eve)?

If we are not then I cannot be saved.

If everyone is from one species,surely the neanderthal man or Peking man is related to Adam's family?

Actually read what I wrote about us becoming human

 

[dagelos]

Matthew 1:21:And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Matthew 15:24:But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

1John 2:22 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Romans 15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people .



I see him gathering both into one, they say not for our sins (only) but the sins of the whole world, he being sent as a minister unto the circumcision whereas he prays and sends his to preach the gospel to all nations. And prays not only for them but for them who would in him believe through their word.

Regarding Romans 15:10....

Gentiles in that verse is,in Strong's Exhaustive Greek,defined as....

1484. ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.



John 7:35:Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

John 11:52:And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

James 1:1:James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

The Assyrian Captives(Israel) were in the nations.

Romans 11:1:I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

The Assyrian Captives were the dispersed and scattered abroad.

 

[Keachian]

Regarding Romans 15:10....

Gentiles in that verse is,in Strong's Exhaustive Greek,defined as....

1484. ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.



John 7:35:Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

John 11:52:And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

James 1:1:James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

The Assyrian Captives(Israel) were in the nations.

Romans 11:1:I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

The Assyrian Captives were the dispersed and scattered abroad.

If you follow this reasoning then you cannot be a Christian... British Israelism has no basis and is completely redundant.

 

[dagelos]

I'd agree with Fireinfolding's refutation of your proof texts.


Genetically yes we are all one species, theologically yes.
For there is neither Greek nor Jew in Christ, slave nor freeman, male nor female.
Christ also said that he could raise sons of Abraham from out of rocks so there is no reason to limit the scope of Salvation


If we are not then I cannot be saved.


Actually read what I wrote about us becoming human

Jew in Galatians 3:28 is defined in Strong's Greek as....

2453. Ioudaios ee-oo-dah'-yos from 2448 (in the sense of 2455 as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah:--Jew(-ess), of Judaea.

JUDAEAN.

The geography,the national term.
Many people lived in Judea.....


Yet,that is still not proof that all peoples come from one source.....

Becoming humans?

Are you saying Peking man and Neanderthal man can ''become humans''?

How is becoming human have anything to do with everyone coming from Adam?

 

[1an]

...then those people did not come from Adam and Eve.
Not everyone descended from Adam and Eve.

Even Cain in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,Hebrew is defined as....

7014 Qayin kah'-yin the same as 7013 (with a play upon the affinity to 7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Palestine, and of an Oriental tribe:--Cain, Kenite(-s).

Notice ''an Oriental tribe''

That's true. The parents of Cain and Able were descended from the first man.

.

 

[dagelos]

If you follow this reasoning then you cannot be a Christian... British Israelism has no basis and is completely redundant.

How so?

That's a harsh statement ''you cannot be a Christian''
I never said I was a follower of ''British Israelism''
Are you saying that the Assyrian Captivity and what happened to the Israelites is ''completely redundant''?
The idea that European nations are lost Israel has basis.
The statement you made shows that Christian brotherhood accepts everyone(but not everyone)

Are you saying what I posted was wrong?

Are you saying Israel is cast away and forgotten?

Are you saying the dispersed and scattered abroad(Israel) is a myth?

 

[Keachian]

Jew in Galatians 3:28 is defined in Strong's Greek as....

2453. Ioudaios ee-oo-dah'-yos from 2448 (in the sense of 2455 as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah:--Jew(-ess), of Judaea.

JUDAEAN.

The geography,the national term.
Many people lived in Judea.....


Yet,that is still not proof that all peoples come from one source.....

Well no it doesn't but it does disprove your idea that Christ is only for those of Israel

Becoming humans?

Are you saying Peking man and Neanderthal man can ''become humans''?

Actually I was talking about how Christ was a pure human and that we can become like Christ. I don't really see how Homo Erectus and Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis have anything to do with it, I'm not sure whether they were imago dei

How is becoming human have anything to do with everyone coming from Adam?

 

[Keachian]

That's a harsh statement ''you cannot be a Christian''
I never said I was a follower of ''British Israelism''

I made a logical jump based on your insistence that only those descended of Israel are under Christ.

Are you saying that the Assyrian Captivity and what happened to the Israelites is ''completely redundant''?

The idea that European nations are lost Israel has basis.

No.

The statement you made shows that Christian brotherhood accepts everyone(but not everyone)

By your reasoning only those who are descended of Israel can be Christian, I do not believe you can prove that you are.

Are you saying what I posted was wrong?

In some ways yes

Are you saying Israel is cast away and forgotten?

So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Are you saying the dispersed and scattered abroad(Israel) is a myth?

No.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Regarding Romans 15:10....

Gentiles in that verse is,in Strong's Exhaustive Greek,defined as....

1484. ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.



John 7:35:Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

John 11:52:And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

James 1:1:James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

The Assyrian Captives(Israel) were in the nations.

Romans 11:1:I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

The Assyrian Captives were the dispersed and scattered abroad.

It still doesnt void the sins of the whole world or their fall being the recconciliation of the world.

 

[1an]

I made a logical jump based on your insistence that only those descended of Israel are under Christ.

No.

By your reasoning only those who are descended of Israel can be Christian, I do not believe you can prove that you are.

In some ways yes

So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

No.

If I were to suggest there is a vast differences between the descendents of Jacob (Israel) who are people of the flesh, and those who are born of the Spirit what would your response be?

Israel of God-not the Israel after the flesh, among whom those teachers wish to enroll you; but the spiritual seed of Abraham by faith (Ga 3:9, 29; Ro 2:28, 29; Php 3:3).

Galatians 6:16
May God's peace and mercy be upon all who live by this principle; they are the new people of God. (NLT)

.

 

[Keachian]

If I were to suggest there is a vast differences between the descendents of Jacob (Israel) who are people of the flesh, and those who are born of the Spirit what would your response be?

It's slightly a different proposition and for the most part I'd agree with you. What I'm arguing against here is the idea that the ten lost tribes of Israel became the European Nations and therefore only those of European/Israel descent can be saved.

 

[1an]

It's slightly a different proposition and for the most part I'd agree with you. What I'm arguing against here is the idea that the ten lost tribes of Israel became the European Nations and therefore only those of European/Israel descent can be saved.

I don't doubt the ten lost tribes migrated into Europe but to suggest only they can be Born Again is clearly incorrect. The Bible speaks of a New Israel that includes all believers.

.

 

[Keachian]

I don't doubt the ten lost tribes migrated into Europe but to suggest only they can be Born Again is clearly incorrect. The Bible speaks of a New Israel that includes all believers.

I do suppose that Europe is far less farfetched than the other popular idea which is America

 

[1an]

I do suppose that Europe is far less farfetched than the other popular idea which is America

Or America and Britain? (Oh dear me)

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

Galatians 3:7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Ephesians 6:23 Peace to the brothers, and love with faith from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--

.

 

[Gozreht]

You are ignoring....

Genesis 4:14:Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Who was this everyone?Who would take out the capitol punishment on Cain?

Just as I said, generations of people who were descended from Adam and Eve over the past 130 years or so.

Why would he be afraid of capitol punishment if he was placed a mark(Protection) to keep him safe?

Genesis 4:15:And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

This didn't come until after the banishment. So he was afraid until this mark. I never put it like they did but I can see capital punishment pretty much being what he was afaid of since it means his death. Very simple.