Does Cain’s punishment support evolution?

[dagelos]

The Bible doesn't say his wife was his sister or relative, so there is no need to assume.

Another odd passage from Genesis 6:1-2: "When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose."

Who were the "daughters of humans"? The geneology accounts in the Bible only look at the male line, so the women they married were probably just non-Hebrews.

You are making an assumption that a wife was his sister or relative.

The Bible says ''And Cain knew his wife''

It does not mention if it was sister or relative!

You are also ignoring the logical view about Cain's fear when he stated....
''that every one that findeth me shall slay me''

Who was Cain afraid of?

If he found a wife from a sister or relative it is only logical he would be afraid of his own family members!
How could Cain find a wife out of his own family if he was afraid of his own family i.e sisters or relatives?????

 

[1an]

You are making an assumption that a wife was his sister or relative.

The Bible says ''And Cain knew his wife''

It does not mention if it was sister or relative!

You are also ignoring the logical view about Cain's fear when he stated....
''that every one that findeth me shall slay me''

Who was Cain afraid of?

If he found a wife from a sister or relative it is only logical he would be afraid of his own family members!
How could Cain find a wife out of his own family if he was afraid of his own family i.e sisters or relatives?????

He was afraid of capitol punishment. That is why he fled to another land.

Genesis 9:5-6
"And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed"

.

 

[jpcedotal]

What is kind of looked over is how long the folks lived during this time. Does it say anywhere the age of Cain and Abel when this went down?

Just for a reference, think about this. Adam died only a few decades before Noah was born.

Adam, Seth, Enosh, Cainan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methusaleh, Lamech, and Noah.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

You are making an assumption that a wife was his sister or relative.

The Bible says ''And Cain knew his wife''

It does not mention if it was sister or relative!

I didn't say Cain's wife was his sister.

 

[Gozreht]

Hello Gozreht, we have always got on alright in the past so let me ask you this. In Genesis chapter four where we read about Cain going to the land of Nod we read of people making the harp and pipe and working in brass and iron. While Cain was building a city the Egyptians were building a Pyramid.

This is what was happening in the Bronze Age in other civilizations as well and they may have been even more advanced like the Egyptians, the Babylonians and the Chinese so I am at a loss to know why you think the family of Adam and Eve were the only people around and that no other nations existed.

The Bible is a history of one nation, the Hebrew nation, and other nations have their histories as well for example I am reading that, "The first cities to house several tens of thousands were Memphis and Uruk by the 31st century BC" this is long before Cain and Able were even a twinkle in their fathers eye.

Cradle of civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Because my friend you are assuming the earth is old and you are using the idea that "ages" came in one after another like, the stone age issued in the bronze age and so on. Perhaps some civilizations were using iron before the others because they had the resource. China grows rice but Iceland doesn't. Does that mean China is in the rice age? Or the North eastern US was using concrete while the Southwest was using adobe. Does that mean we are living in the concrete age while Texas was in the Adobe age? No. Remember we are looking into the past and basing our ideas on what we think not what we can observe. We have the written word though for us to actually show us what things were like. But I know not many on this thread would agree with that. Agree to disagree.

Citing Wikipedia as proof is not the end all for facts.

I do not believe that the Bible is only an account of the Hebrew nation because the NT incorporates all of God's people on earth. Why would the OT be different? Plus the Hebrew nation did not start with Adam. That is not what the Bible says. It started almost 2000 years after Adam.

 

[Gozreht]

You said '' So scripture does say where all the women came from...Eve and assumably Adam.''

It does not explain where Cain found a wife as the children were born in Adam's later years,NOT BEFORE SETH.

Genesis 5:4:And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

What you are doing is working by assumption!

Yes, of course I am. It doesn't say if they had other sons and daughters before Seth. It just says there were definitely some after. Are you saying that Adam and Eve had only two children for 130 years and then all of a sudden both are gone, then they had more? I would assume, again that human nature would allow Adam and Eve to have more children if you know what I mean.

 

[Gozreht]

You are making an assumption that a wife was his sister or relative.

The Bible says ''And Cain knew his wife''

It does not mention if it was sister or relative!

You are also ignoring the logical view about Cain's fear when he stated....
''that every one that findeth me shall slay me''

Who was Cain afraid of?

If he found a wife from a sister or relative it is only logical he would be afraid of his own family members!
How could Cain find a wife out of his own family if he was afraid of his own family i.e sisters or relatives?????

KJV says Cain knew his wife, the translation means "lay with" or have sex with. But I agree it doesn't mean sister or relative as we would think. It could be generations apart. Here in the US it is legal to marry your 3rd cousin. Cain's wife easily could have been this far apart from him. Didn't Jospeh have brothers that hate him? Same thing.

 

[dagelos]

He was afraid of capitol punishment. That is why he fled to another land.

Genesis 9:5-6
"And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed"

.

You are ignoring....

Genesis 4:14:Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Who was this everyone?Who would take out the capitol punishment on Cain?
Why would he be afraid of capitol punishment if he was placed a mark(Protection) to keep him safe?

Genesis 4:15:And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

 

[dagelos]

KJV says Cain knew his wife, the translation means "lay with" or have sex with. But I agree it doesn't mean sister or relative as we would think. It could be generations apart. Here in the US it is legal to marry your 3rd cousin. Cain's wife easily could have been this far apart from him. Didn't Jospeh have brothers that hate him? Same thing.

If it was generations apart,that would mean Cain stayed single,and then what?
Who was the ''every one'' that Cain was afraid of?(Genesis 4:14)

Genesis 4:17:And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Where did he find a wife?

 

[dagelos]

Yes, of course I am. It doesn't say if they had other sons and daughters before Seth. It just says there were definitely some after. Are you saying that Adam and Eve had only two children for 130 years and then all of a sudden both are gone, then they had more? I would assume, again that human nature would allow Adam and Eve to have more children if you know what I mean.

That is only assumption.

Seth was the one who was born,the substitute for Abel.

Genesis 4:25:And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Why are no children mentioned before Seth?
The rest of the children were born in Adam's later years....

Genesis 5:4:And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

 

[dagelos]

I didn't say Cain's wife was his sister.

Who do you say his wife was?

 

[1an]

You are ignoring....

Genesis 4:14:Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Who was this everyone? Who would take out the capitol punishment on Cain?
Why would he be afraid of capitol punishment if he was placed a mark(Protection) to keep him safe?

Genesis 4:15:And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Who? Lots of people from across the world, none of whom are mentioned in Jewish history, but in this case he would have been sentenced to death by his own judges.

"Early humans were almost surely hunters and gatherers who moved continually in search of food supplies. The superior technologies (tools, clothes, language, disciplined cooperation) of these hunting bands allowed them to spread farther and faster than had any other dominant species.

Humans are thought to have occupied all the continents except Antarctica within a span of about 50,000 years.

About 10,000 years ago a new and more productive way of life, involving sedentary agriculture, became predominant. This allowed greater investment of labour and technology in crop production, resulting in a more substantial and securer food source."

(Encyclopædia Britannica)

.

 

[1an]

You are ignoring....

Genesis 4:14:Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Who was this everyone?Who would take out the capitol punishment on Cain?
Why would he be afraid of capitol punishment if he was placed a mark(Protection) to keep him safe?

Genesis 4:15:And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

You have just confirmed that the death penalty was the normal punishment for murder.

.

 

[1an]

If it was generations apart,that would mean Cain stayed single,and then what?
Who was the ''every one'' that Cain was afraid of?(Genesis 4:14)

Genesis 4:17:And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Where did he find a wife?

Even the Bible is telling you there were other people. That is what "every one" means.

.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Who do you say his wife was?

That's the thing - we don't know. The Bible doesn't say who she was. It's unlikely that it was his sister or relative though.

 

[dagelos]

Who? Lots of people from across the world, none of whom are mentioned in Jewish history, but in this case he would have been sentenced to death by his own judges.

"Early humans were almost surely hunters and gatherers who moved continually in search of food supplies. The superior technologies (tools, clothes, language, disciplined cooperation) of these hunting bands allowed them to spread farther and faster than had any other dominant species.

Humans are thought to have occupied all the continents except Antarctica within a span of about 50,000 years.

About 10,000 years ago a new and more productive way of life, involving sedentary agriculture, became predominant. This allowed greater investment of labour and technology in crop production, resulting in a more substantial and securer food source."

(Encyclopædia Britannica)

.

Cain was not Jewish,Adam and Eve were not Jewish,Moses was not Jewish,you are applying Jewish in the modern sense to ''Israel''
The Israelites in the Old Testament when they were led out of Egypt were not called ''Jews'' or ''Jewish.'' - They were called Israel.

 

[dagelos]

Even the Bible is telling you there were other people. That is what "every one" means.

.

...then those people did not come from Adam and Eve.
Not everyone descended from Adam and Eve.

Even Cain in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,Hebrew is defined as....

7014 Qayin kah'-yin the same as 7013 (with a play upon the affinity to 7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Palestine, and of an Oriental tribe:--Cain, Kenite(-s).

Notice ''an Oriental tribe''

 

[dagelos]

That's the thing - we don't know. The Bible doesn't say who she was. It's unlikely that it was his sister or relative though.

The way I see it is that not all people came from Adam and Eve.

There were probably other peoples here on earth that did not come from Adam and Eve.

Adam in the Hebrew(Strong's Exhaustive Concordance) is defined as...

121 'Adam aw-dawm' the same as 120; Adam the name of the first man, also of a place in Palestine:--Adam.

120 'adam aw-dawm' from 119; ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):--X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.

119 'adam aw-dam' to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:--be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).

If you notice ''to show blood (in the face)'' or ''turn rosy''
They are only characteristics of one people.

 

[Keachian]

The way I see it is that not all people came from Adam and Eve.

There is a problem with this theologically, in that people then want to try and say that not all people are therefore able to be saved (ie not all are technically human)

 

[dagelos]

There is a problem with this theologically, in that people then want to try and say that not all people are therefore able to be saved (ie not all are technically human)

Well,there is a problem with the ''everyone came from Adam and Eve'' theology.
It uses evolution,Christian evolution,to support every one of every family and nation came from one man and
woman.i.e...negroes,Asians,Pygmies,natives,Tribal groups,Aboriginies etc etc

Can neanderthal man be saved? Did neanderthal man come from Adam and Eve?Or what about Peking man?