Does baptism save us or not?

[Ave Maria]

Hi everyone. Most Baptists believe that baptism does not save us right? Well, then how do you explain this verse? I'm not wanting an argument, just wondering how on earth a Baptist explains this verse which seems to clearly state that baptism saves one:

[bible]1 Peter 3:18-22[/bible]

I am quoting this in the KJV but feel free to reference other versions if you'd like but please not which version you are using. Thanks!

 

[Cright]

21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also–not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[b] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand–with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

I used the NIV, just for the reason that it's easier for me to read... but its the same in either case...

vs 21: The water (of a physical baptism) symbolizes the (spiritual baptism aka receiving the Holy Spirit) baptism, and it is the latter baptism (the spiritual) kind that saves us (now meaning new testament times).

He clairfies in the second part of the verse saying - It's not the physical water (aka removal of dirt) from the body, but the good mental state(of good conscience) toward God.

vs 22: This is done by the resurrection of Jesus Christ who is in heaven with God, and those in submission to him.

** side note** this also implies that we must be submissive to God and Jesus in heaven.

I know my words may be jumbled, please feel free to ask me to clarify if I didn't explain well.

God Bless,
Carina

 

[Dmckay]

Let's concentrate on verses 21 and 22 since they primarily deal with your question.

21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

The phrase that I have highlighted explains that Peter is not talking about water Baptism, but rather that which water Baptism symbolizes, our identification with Christ in His sacrifice and His subsequent resurrection which proved our Justification. "He was raised for (because of) our justification."

The "Corresponding to that" at the beginning of verse 21 relates what Peter is likening "baptism now saves you" to. All those who did not enter into the Ark with Noah and his family perished, not having faith that there was a need for such a ridiculous thing as ship that far away from a major water source. Only those of Noah's family, who by faith, entered into the Ark, were carried safely above the flood waters unto life.

 

[Ave Maria]

Let's concentrate on verses 21 and 22 since they primarily deal with your question.

21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

The phrase that I have highlighted explains that Peter is not talking about water Baptism, but rather that which water Baptism symbolizes, our identification with Christ in His sacrifice and His subsequent resurrection which proved our Justification. "He was raised for (because of) our justification."

The "Corresponding to that" at the beginning of verse 21 relates what Peter is likening "baptism now saves you" to. All those who did not enter into the Ark with Noah and his family perished, not having faith that there was a need for such a ridiculous thing as ship that far away from a major water source. Only those of Noah's family, who by faith, entered into the Ark, were carried safely above the flood waters unto life.

Hmm, I think I am beginning to understand this. It's really kind of complicated. I'm what you might call a "newbie Christian" even though I've been a Christian for around 10 years I've never really been that involved in certain theological doctrines. Most of my upbringing was Baptist so I don't really understand it when Catholics, Lutherans, and others say that baptism saves you or something like that.

 

[mesue]

Hi everyone. Most Baptists believe that baptism does not save us right? Well, then how do you explain this verse? I'm not wanting an argument, just wondering how on earth a Baptist explains this verse which seems to clearly state that baptism saves one:

1 Peter 3:18-2218 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

I am quoting this in the KJV but feel free to reference other versions if you'd like but please not which version you are using. Thanks!

Peter is describing how baptism symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Like Galatians 2:20 says that I am crucified with Christ, never the less I live. People haven't been publicly crucified for centuries, yet symbolically, I am.
So, when I did get Baptized as an adult, I made a public statement saying that I am willing to serve Jesus by dying to myself and living for Him.
My sins were forgiven the moment I prayed to Jesus acknowledging that I am a sinner in need of forgiveness and accepting that Jesus's shed blood is the atonement for my sin.

 

[Stinker]

(1Pet.3:21) as applied in the New Testament, can be found in Paul's conversion and is the climax of his 3-days of repentance while waiting on Ananias. Paul, like so many people, know that God has forgiven their sins. But these people still have a guilty conscience by holding these forgiven sins in the forefront of their conscience. This is why Ananias used a biblical figure of speech; "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)

 

[arunma]

Actually, I've always thought that this verse is good evidence that baptism does not save. I would elaborate, but my fellow Baptists have written some good explanations already.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

" Water saved Noah not of itself, but by sustaining the ark built in faith, resting on God's word: it was to him the sign and mean of a kind of regeneration, of the earth. The flood was for Noah a baptism, as the passage through the Red Sea was for the Israelites; by baptism in the flood he and his family were transferred from the old world to the new: from immediate destruction to lengthened probation; from the companionship of the wicked to communion with God; from the severing of all bonds between the creature and the Creator to the privileges of the covenant: so we by spiritual baptism. As there was a Ham who forfeited the privileges of the covenant, so many now. The antitypical water, namely, baptism, saves you also not of itself, nor the mere material water, but the spiritual thing conjoined with it, repentance and faith, of which it is the sign and seal, as Peter proceeds to explain. Compare the union of the sign and thing signified, Joh 3:5; Eph 5:26; *** 3:5; Heb 10:22; compare 1Jo 5:6.
~JFB

Noah accepted God first, obeyed God, then was "saved" by the water. You see?

GEL

 

[SteveR2021]

I think that we should get baptized...end of story. I think it's salvific qualities are irrelevant.

If my aim is to glorify God than I'll obey his commandments (and get baptized) and I'll let Him take care of my salvation.

I understand why you are asking the question...it has been asked many times before. I just get uneasy when we talk about the salvific nature of certain things. If we can we should get baptized - if we can't (ie. we die 5 minutes following conversion) I'm sure God will be merciful.

 

[ischus]

I think that we should get baptized...end of story. I think it's salvific qualities are irrelevant.

If my aim is to glorify God than I'll obey his commandments (and get baptized) and I'll let Him take care of my salvation.

I understand why you are asking the question...it has been asked many times before. I just get uneasy when we talk about the salvific nature of certain things. If we can we should get baptized - if we can't (ie. we die 5 minutes following conversion) I'm sure God will be merciful.

I agree.

And to answer the OP, it seems to me that the reason Peter has to make the comment about washing away dirt is because he was in fact reffering to physical water baptism. He is saying the water baptism isn't just accomplishing something physical (washing the outside), but there is something greater happening on the spiritual level (a cleansing of the spirit).

There are some good (and very long) threads on Baptism that you will find around here. It is always good to read through them if you have time. You will see many different views on every baptismal verse.

 

[Stinker]

I agree.

And to answer the OP, it seems to me that the reason Peter has to make the comment about washing away dirt is because he was in fact reffering to physical water baptism. He is saying the water baptism isn't just accomplishing something physical (washing the outside), but there is something greater happening on the spiritual level (a cleansing of the spirit).

There are some good (and very long) threads on Baptism that you will find around here. It is always good to read through them if you have time. You will see many different views on every baptismal verse.

The reason that the threads are so long on the subject of baptism in the non-denomination section is because of a few things not even discussed....

That the only change concerning water baptism from John's (Mk.1:4) to the authority of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Mt.28:19). Notice that the only change from the baptism of John to the New Covenant baptism is that Christ is now realized and we are now baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This water baptism is to be distinguished from the baptism of John...."...one Lord, one faith, one baptism." (Eph.4:5) It is still the baptism of repentance unto the remission of sins. It washes away the sins that are already forgiven (Acts22:16) and gives a clear conscience (1Pet.3:21).

 

[abednego]

Noah and those other 7 were under the Law. Jesus Christ came preaching a new way to heaven. We are not under that Law anymore. In the bible it says the Law and the profets were until John. But now everyman press his own way into heaven. Jesus came to fulfill the Law.

 

[Stinker]

Noah and those other 7 were under the Law. Jesus Christ came preaching a new way to heaven. We are not under that Law anymore. In the bible it says the Law and the profets were until John. But now everyman press his own way into heaven. Jesus came to fulfill the Law.

Actually Noah and the others were before the Law of Moses.

What must be remembered about water baptism is that it is a public declaration that one has repented of their sins, regenerated, and by this water baptism....entering into the physical body...the physical church.

 

[abednego]

Actually Noah and the others were before the Law of Moses.

What must be remembered about water baptism is that it is a public declaration that one has repented of their sins, regenerated, and by this water baptism....entering into the physical body...the physical church.

Hey thanks ... i guess your right when i think of things in the old testement i just kinda thought of the Law your right thou! but besides that first sentence i think its good. Sry bout the mistake, and thanks!