Does anyone else have mixed thoughts about the apostle Paul?

[Followers4christ]

Fair enough, and I can see where you're coming from. I've had issue with him on numerous occasions, but he's indeed a human, so I feel no guilt for that disagreement.

Yes Paul is just human.but his words in the bible is not from himself but from God.Paul was just as a pen and God was the writer.You cannot pick and choose what you want to follow, but take all of it or none of it.God Bless


1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

Did you ever think that maybe Paul was celibate because, with attitudes like that he couldn't get a woman to marry him?

 

[Followers4christ]

That said, Paul was apparently a fanatic before his conversion. When fanatics change their beliefs, they tend to maintain the general theme of fanaticism because that is an ingrained part of their personality that goes deeper than their conscious beliefs. I think Paul reflects this pattern to some extent.

When someone comes to Christ they no longer have the same mind set for now Jesus lives in them.As we know Jesus lived in paul as he wrote those books that are now in the bible.The bible was written by God through his disciples they were the pen and God was the writer and the author of our salvation.God Bless

Romans 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

 

[Followers4christ]

Did you ever think that maybe Paul was celibate because, with attitudes like that he couldn't get a woman to marry him?

By making fun of Paul who was a vessel that God used to write those books that are now found in the bible.You are really making fun of Christ not Paul.God Bless

 

[progressivegal]

Did you ever think that maybe Paul was celibate because, with attitudes like that he couldn't get a woman to marry him?

lol!

 

[Evangelina]

Yes Paul is just human.but his words in the bible is not from himself but from God.Paul was just as a pen and God was the writer.

What is your biblical backing for this statement? Especially the part bolded by me?

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I'm curious about that too, Evangelina. Especially so since Paul often notes that a particular piece of advice is not from God, but is just his own opinion. It's my understanding that God used good men, holy men who trusted God and whom God trusted to write the Bible, but that He didn't dictate it. He wanted it in their own words. And Paul has a highly distinctive personal style. It obviously is in his own words (except for certain books that are attributed to him, but that contemporary scholars think he didn't write, especially 1 & 2 Timothy).

And btw, Paul probably was married in his younger life. It would've been highly unusual as a young Pharisee if he hadn't been.

 

[Abbadon]

I remember hearing from one guy that one reason Paul was celebate was because he and a gentile woman fell in love when he was younger. Her being a gentile, they couldn't get together, but they still had a kid. Since he couldn't get married to the mother of his own child, he wasn't going to get married at all.

However, I'd have to meet up with the guy to find out where he was getting the info from (usually a pretty reliable guy, but I still only keep this idea in the "somewhat possible but far from confirmed" file in my head since I haven't looked into it myself).

 

[Gukkor]

You cannot pick and choose what you want to follow

Of course I can. God has given us a spirit of discernment, which we are to use to determine as best we can what is of God and what is not. Christ was the only infallible man, and God's chosen prophets have taught, done, and spoken things which were not Godly many, many times in the past. What leads you to believe that Paul would be any different? Know that by that, I am not saying that Paul is an evil man, or even that God didn't speak through him (I think he did). However, even when using a person to speak His Will, God does not take away their own free will to do, believe, or say what is wrong. We see this in Moses, we see it in Jonah, and we certainly see it in each other.

 

[Followers4christ]

What is your biblical backing for this statement? Especially the part bolded by me?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Hebrews 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

2 Peter 1:20-21 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

 

[progressivegal]

I remember hearing from one guy that one reason Paul was celebate was because he and a gentile woman fell in love when he was younger. Her being a gentile, they couldn't get together, but they still had a kid. Since he couldn't get married to the mother of his own child, he wasn't going to get married at all.

However, I'd have to meet up with the guy to find out where he was getting the info from (usually a pretty reliable guy, but I still only keep this idea in the "somewhat possible but far from confirmed" file in my head since I haven't looked into it myself).

Wow, I've never heard that, but it's very interesting, especially if it's true. Let me know what info you find, I'm intrigued!

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Hebrews 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

2 Peter 1:20-21 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

I agree with all that, but those verses indicate to me that scripture is inspired by God and is authoritative, not that it is necessarily the exact words of God. I would say Paul's epistles are largely God's thoughts, as God inspired Paul through the Holy Spirit, but expressed in Paul's own words. But parts of those epistles are, as Paul himself says in them, Paul's own thoughts, not God's.

 

[artybloke]

It's interesting that of the Pauline epistles quoted above, none of them are thought to be by Paul apart from 1 Corinthians; 2 Peter's authorship is also highly doubtful. It seems to me to be a lot more to do with writers trying to justify themselves to the church than it has to do with inspiration.

Never trust anyone who says they speak for God. They generally only speak for themselves.

 

[Catherineanne]

1 Corinthians 14:34-35"women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

So, if I go to church on Sunday, and while I am there I say 'Good morning, Father' to the vicar, do you seriously think this is disgraceful?

Or even that Paul would think so?

 

[Evangelina]

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Mmm, I know that one - I don't consider that adequate backup for your statement. Especially considering that Paul was clearly talking about the Scriptures they knew at that time, as is shown in the preceding verse:

and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

So what comprises 'the gospel' in your eyes?

Hebrews 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

How does this verse contribute anything toward proving that the concept of Paul merely being the pen in writing his letters?

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

Same question as above?

2 Peter 1:20-21

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Hmmm... and yet Paul clearly states in parts of his letters that he speaks for himself, not God. Claiming all of Paul's letters as prophecy, as opposed to wise teaching, seems a little overboard.

 

[Catherineanne]

Yes Paul is just human.but his words in the bible is not from himself but from God.Paul was just as a pen and God was the writer.You cannot pick and choose what you want to follow, but take all of it or none of it.God Bless

Please provide the Bible verse that says that God actually wrote the Bible.

Also the verse that says that when quoting or using Scripture you have to quote or use either all of it or none of it (which precept you have broken more than once already on this thread, btw).

Also the bit that says that you cannot pick and choose what you want to follow (which precept ditto as above).

You may be interested to consider that Christ himself chose from Scripture and quoted bits of it, and therefore picked and chose those bits relevant to his situation to illustrate his beliefs and way of life. Therefore, if what you are saying is true, Christ himself falls short, because on the Cross he said only; 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?' rather than quoting the whole Bible.

Fortunately, what you are saying is not true, not of you, nor me, nor Christ, nor any other Christian on earth. We all choose, and we all interpret according to our own spiritual experience. And there is no Scripture to say this is wrong.

 

[Catherineanne]

By making fun of Paul who was a vessel that God used to write those books that are now found in the bible.You are really making fun of Christ not Paul.God Bless

Do you think Christ would object to light hearted banter about the blessed Paul, and take it personally in this way?

Do you think he would even take light hearted banter about himself personally?

Does this not suggest a rather petty minded kind of Christ, quick to take offence, and with no sense of humour whatsoever? What makes you think he was actually like this? Where in the gospels is he portrayed as lacking humour, and as being rather small minded?

Have you ever encountered the suggestion that we each create God in our own image? Just wondering ...

 

[Catherineanne]

Never trust anyone who says they speak for God. They generally only speak for themselves.

God says to tell you that he agrees with this.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

By making fun of Paul who was a vessel that God used to write those books that are now found in the bible.You are really making fun of Christ not Paul.God Bless

When you read the Bible, F4X, do you get the jokes?

 

[plmarquette]

Just to clarify, do you mean to imply that the latter activities are evil, or just addiction to them?

some of what is written is cultural, some tradition, some history ... to glean from the bible, we have to try to look at them via their culture, their time, and their eyes...

perhaps to look at what was done now in the light of society now....we may think of the patriarchs as chauvenists... historically women have fared far better under Christianity than any other religious ethic ...

bondage of any kind is a form of evil
...the people in the middle east are still living in the feudal system ... those in India are in bondage of a caste system....

to destroy what is different , perhaps is an evil also

would not a person who wrote 60% of the bible, was whipped 3 times like Jesus, caned twice, shipwrecked twice, imprisoned , and martyred be a bit "single minded"
is that all bad ?