does anyone else feel this? that your mind wants to think this and then when you think something bad you feel so bad and so scared? why does my mind want to think theese thoughts?
god4ever
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does anyone else feel this
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Ariel
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god4ever, I think everyone has wandering thoughts. I know I do. But that doesn't necessarily mean you sin.
Scripture is so helpful here. In Hebrews 4:15 as it talks about Jesus it says, "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin."
This means that Jesus was tempted, just like we are, but He didn't sin.
So then, it is possible to be tempted, but not sin.
Going back to your thoughts. Hey--the thoughts when they first come up are not sin. They are temptation, possibly, yes, but they are not sin. It's what you choose to do with those thoughts that make them sin or not. If you entertain the thoughts or act on them, then they can become sin, but not when you first think of them. That's just temptation. We are all tempted, just like Jesus was.
Like you, my thoughts wander into some weird areas sometimes. So I pull them back, tell myself I am not going there, and then choose to think of something else instead. Even better, I get up and do something else instead. Sometimes I read my bible, sometimes go out for a walk. Or do housework--there's always plenty of that.
Be blessed. You're okay.
Scripture is so helpful here. In Hebrews 4:15 as it talks about Jesus it says, "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin."
This means that Jesus was tempted, just like we are, but He didn't sin.
So then, it is possible to be tempted, but not sin.
Going back to your thoughts. Hey--the thoughts when they first come up are not sin. They are temptation, possibly, yes, but they are not sin. It's what you choose to do with those thoughts that make them sin or not. If you entertain the thoughts or act on them, then they can become sin, but not when you first think of them. That's just temptation. We are all tempted, just like Jesus was.
Like you, my thoughts wander into some weird areas sometimes. So I pull them back, tell myself I am not going there, and then choose to think of something else instead. Even better, I get up and do something else instead. Sometimes I read my bible, sometimes go out for a walk. Or do housework--there's always plenty of that.
Be blessed. You're okay.
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Ariel
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Yes, a lot of us do this--it's part of our human nature.
But that doesn't mean we have to be ruled by our thoughts. We are more than conquerors through Christ Jesus who loves us, Romans 8:37. We can overcome.
I know this because I was once overwhelmed by intrusive thoughts, but I am no longer. God is so good. He helped me get well.
But that doesn't mean we have to be ruled by our thoughts. We are more than conquerors through Christ Jesus who loves us, Romans 8:37. We can overcome.
I know this because I was once overwhelmed by intrusive thoughts, but I am no longer. God is so good. He helped me get well.
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gracealone
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Great answer Pic.!
Having these thoughts pop up are not tantamount to believing in them or acting on them. That's why the professionals label them, "intrusive/unwanted".
Mitzi
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gracealone
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Hi God4ever,
Having a disturbing/unwanted/intrusive thought pop into your head doesn't mean that you wish for it to be there or that you are wanting to think it, (because you can't get it out of your head), or that you agree with it or that you will act upon it.
It's the very fact that you desperately don't want to think these thoughts - that you expend so much energy warring against them that causes them to get stuck in your head. Then when they get stuck you begin to wonder - "Is it really me wanting them there that makes it so hard for me to stop thinking about them etc.?, which only increases the anxiety and intensifies your desire to be rid of them.
Picassoui is right -"It's the nature of the disorder that causes this."
Feeling really bad, really scared, freaked out, depressed, in despair and torture over them is how you know that they are a manifestation of OCD.
Praying for you,
Mitzi
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but it's like i want to think it and then after i do i feel so bad and so sorry for it so i am thinking it on purpose god help me
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gracealone
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The key here is that the thought is accompanied by intense fear and anxiety. That is how you can know it's OCD. Thoughts that we really want to think aren't like this. You said, "it's like I want to think it", so I can tell that deep down you really know you don't want to think it. Otherwise you would have just said. "I want to think it, I like to think it." You might have even said - "don't tell me what I can and cannot think - it's none of you're business etc."
Ever had the urge to gossip about someone because you know some juicy little tidbit about their life? You want to tell someone about it and if you follow your old nature you might just do it and while you are doing it you will enjoy doing it. Now if you are tender to the nudging of the Holy Spirit you might after a time, feel sad and sorry that you did it and may ask for forgiveness but you won't be in a state of severe anxiety and terror that you gossiped in the first place. Real sin often feels pleasureable to us and sins like pride are very subtle. There is nothing subtle about an OCD thought/spike. It is unwanted, intrusive and very disturbing from the moment it enters our consciousness and it creates intense fear and anxiety. "God help me!!"
When the Dr. who is examining my eyes says, "hold very still and don't move", I,(because I have OCD), automatically feel a very strong urge to move. It may seem to me that I want to move because I'm thinking over and over, "I'm going to move, I just know I'm going to move, what if I move etc.", but it's really the fear that I might move that stirs up so much anxiety in me.
If you really wanted the thought in your brain you wouldn't be so freaked out about it's presence. The OCD cycle is - a. obsessive instrusive thought, b. anxiety/fear about the thought, c. compulsion to undo the thought, seek reassurance about the thought - checking, solving, debating etc. - which will bring you full circle back to a. thinking the thought. The more we engage in c. the deeper we get into the obsessive compulsive cycle. The deeper we get into it the more intense our anxiety will become.
Praying for you,
Mitzi
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but how can he forgive me for the thought that the holy spirit is of the devil that's blaspheming the the holy spirit the unpardonable sin. like today at work i tried to think the opposite and when i tried to do that the worse it got. i really feel like my heart is hardened because i'm so numb i don't know what i feel right now. i just wish that there wasn't such a sin god4ever
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Ariel
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god4ever, let me tell you what a pastor friend said to us at church one night. He said that if you are worried that you have committed the unpardonable sin, then you have not committed it.
You haven't. You have not committed the unpardonable sin.
gracealone said something which is so valuable. Look at it again:
That's what's happening, isn't it? That full circle that is being powered by anxiety and fear, thinking you've committed a sin when you haven't.
These are intrusive thoughts. They are not sin. You don't want them, you are trying to get rid of them. YOU HAVE NOT SINNED. And even if you did, that sin is covered the moment you ask God to forgive you.
god4ever, you are a precious daughter of the Most High God. He loves you. His grace is on you, and His grace is sufficient for you. Whatever struggles you are having, He sees your heart and your love for Him. That's all that matters, that you love Him and are trying to live for Him. All these intrusive thoughts don't count.
Be blessed, my dear sister in the Lord.
You haven't. You have not committed the unpardonable sin.
gracealone said something which is so valuable. Look at it again:
gracealone said:
That's what's happening, isn't it? That full circle that is being powered by anxiety and fear, thinking you've committed a sin when you haven't.
These are intrusive thoughts. They are not sin. You don't want them, you are trying to get rid of them. YOU HAVE NOT SINNED. And even if you did, that sin is covered the moment you ask God to forgive you.
god4ever, you are a precious daughter of the Most High God. He loves you. His grace is on you, and His grace is sufficient for you. Whatever struggles you are having, He sees your heart and your love for Him. That's all that matters, that you love Him and are trying to live for Him. All these intrusive thoughts don't count.
Be blessed, my dear sister in the Lord.
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forgiveable
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I went back to another forum to get this info... I hope it is helpful and I copied it from someone else's quote I hope I am doing this right. I just saw this in reply to a thought that was similar to what you are describing. I remembered it helped me just to read the words so I hope this is okay...
First, let me give you an on-line hug, and let you know that you are not alone in your ocd thoughts. I too, thought I had committed the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit. I suffered for several years with the same thoughts as you have.
Just so you know, there is hope! I no longer have trouble with this, and hardly ever think of it. Your problem is not your faith, it's ocd. I thought about religious stuff 24/7, and was sure I was going to hell. I missed my children's "little years" because I was too busy trying to counter all these horrible thoughts about God. I was hospitalized 6 times on psych floors for this.
It's possible to get better. It takes therapy and meds.
It is not too late...far from it, in fact!
First, let me give you an on-line hug
, and let you know that you are not alone in your ocd thoughts. I too, thought I had committed the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit. I suffered for several years with the same thoughts as you have. Just so you know, there is hope! I no longer have trouble with this, and hardly ever think of it. Your problem is not your faith, it's ocd. I thought about religious stuff 24/7, and was sure I was going to hell. I missed my children's "little years" because I was too busy trying to counter all these horrible thoughts about God. I was hospitalized 6 times on psych floors for this.
It's possible to get better. It takes therapy and meds.
It is not too late...far from it, in fact!
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gracealone
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Hi god4ever,
With OCD no matter how many truthfilled, logical reassurances people offer you on whatever theme your OCD has settled upon you won't feel better. Someone here, I think it was KayKay, said that even if an angelic being stood before her and assured her that she hadn't committed the unpardonable sin that she'd still have lingering doubt and fear. That's because OCD isn't a problem of unbelief or sin it's a medical problem that is afflicting the area of your brain that is responsible for the fight or flight emotions. Your brain is in a state not unlike a broken fire alarm that keeps blaring when there's no real emergency. When you know the fire alarm is broken you need to learn to stop giving it's signals so much validity. You need to learn to say I only feel afraid because my brain chemistry isn't balanced.
When the thought that "the holy spirit is the devil" comes into your mind you must instantly recognize it as what is referred to as an OCD "spike". Then when the anxiety starts to peak you must keep making every effort to resist doing the compulsive activities. When you "tried to think the opposite" that was engaging in the compulsive activity which would be termed - "undoing or cancelling thoughts/statements." When we do the compulsive activities this is what happens -"the worse it got".
Feeling numb and being in a state of confusion about what we feel is a common experience for those of us with religious OCD.
Try very hard to see your OCD in a clinical fashion.
A. obsessional spike: "the holy spirit is the devil."
B. intense anxiety/fear response
C. compulsive activity: "I tried to think the opposite"
D. Then -"it got worse".
A. Obsessional spike comes again - only more intense, more frequent
B. Even greater anxiety and terror
C. Compulsive activity. I must get reassurance I must undo this etc.
Then round and round you go and when the hampster wheel is spinning it's very hard to jump off.
Engaging in the compulsive activity of C. is what gets the original obsession so stuck in our heads and it's what gives the obsession more validity - more importance than it deserves. Not doing the activities of C. is what you must force yourself to do. This isn't easy, it takes grit, guts and perseverance and it feels extremely scary but it's the way out of this extremely distressing disorder.
I hope you are having a better day.
Praying for you,
Mitzi
With OCD no matter how many truthfilled, logical reassurances people offer you on whatever theme your OCD has settled upon you won't feel better. Someone here, I think it was KayKay, said that even if an angelic being stood before her and assured her that she hadn't committed the unpardonable sin that she'd still have lingering doubt and fear. That's because OCD isn't a problem of unbelief or sin it's a medical problem that is afflicting the area of your brain that is responsible for the fight or flight emotions. Your brain is in a state not unlike a broken fire alarm that keeps blaring when there's no real emergency. When you know the fire alarm is broken you need to learn to stop giving it's signals so much validity. You need to learn to say I only feel afraid because my brain chemistry isn't balanced.
When the thought that "the holy spirit is the devil" comes into your mind you must instantly recognize it as what is referred to as an OCD "spike". Then when the anxiety starts to peak you must keep making every effort to resist doing the compulsive activities. When you "tried to think the opposite" that was engaging in the compulsive activity which would be termed - "undoing or cancelling thoughts/statements." When we do the compulsive activities this is what happens -"the worse it got".
Feeling numb and being in a state of confusion about what we feel is a common experience for those of us with religious OCD.
Try very hard to see your OCD in a clinical fashion.
A. obsessional spike: "the holy spirit is the devil."
B. intense anxiety/fear response
C. compulsive activity: "I tried to think the opposite"
D. Then -"it got worse".
A. Obsessional spike comes again - only more intense, more frequent
B. Even greater anxiety and terror
C. Compulsive activity. I must get reassurance I must undo this etc.
Then round and round you go and when the hampster wheel is spinning it's very hard to jump off.
Engaging in the compulsive activity of C. is what gets the original obsession so stuck in our heads and it's what gives the obsession more validity - more importance than it deserves. Not doing the activities of C. is what you must force yourself to do. This isn't easy, it takes grit, guts and perseverance and it feels extremely scary but it's the way out of this extremely distressing disorder.
I hope you are having a better day.
Praying for you,
Mitzi
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