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Featured Does All Radically Mean All?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    All = pa’ß =

    Radically means “all.”

    Used without the article it means “every,” every kind or variety. So the RV marg. in Eph. 2:21, “every building,” and the text in Eph. 3:15, “every family,” and the RV marg. of Acts 2:36, “every house;”

    or, it may signify “the highest degree,” the maximum of what is referred to, as, “with all boldness” Acts 4:29.

    Before proper names of countries, cities and nations, and before collective terms, like “Israel,” it signifies either “all” or “the whole,” e.g., Matt. 2:3; Acts 2:36.

    Used with the article, it means the whole of one object.

    In the plural it signifies “the totality of the persons or things referred to.”

    Used without a noun it virtually becomes a pronoun, meaning “everyone” or “anyone.”

    In the plural with a noun it means “all.”

    One form of the neuter plural (panta) signifies “wholly, together, in all ways, in all things,” Acts 20:35; 1 Cor. 9:25.

    The neuter plural without the article signifies “all things severally,” e.g., John 1:3; 1 Cor. 2:10; preceded by the article it denotes “all things,” as constituting a whole, e.g., Rom. 11:36; 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 3:9.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  2. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think literally every person in Judea went out to be baptized in the Jordan by John the Baptist.

    Discretion is called for about pas

    I know that HyperCalvinists can use this to say God doesn't wan t ALL to be saved

    But in ALL fairness, sometimes all doesn't literally mean all, but sometimes it does.

    Different Christians are guided by different principles, Sola Scriptura, magisterium of the Church, in my case, Wesleyan Quadrilateral...

    We all must choose
     
  3. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Certainly not these guys:

    Matthew 3:7
    But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them,
    “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath<ὀργῆς<3709>?
    Luke 3:7
    Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him,
    Brood of vipers! Who warned ye to flee from the being about wrath<ὀργῆς<3709>?
    Mat 12:34
    Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
    Mat 23:33
    Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of the Gehenna?

    Luke 21:23

    “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
    For there will be Great Distress in the land and wrath<ὀργὴ <3709> upon this people.

    Revelation 6:
    16 - and they said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
    17 - “For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
    =====================
    However, didn't Jesus forgive them at the Cross?

    Luk 23:34
    Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”[fn] And they divided His garments and cast lots.
    =====================
    But they refused to repent/reform...........

    Romans 2:
    23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
    24 'For because of ye the name of the God is being blasphemed in the nations' according as it has been written.'
    [Psalm 74:10]

    Revelation still shows the wrath coming upon the 1st century Jews that refused to repent up to 70ad:

    Reve 16:11
    And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them,
    and not they reform/repent out of the works of them
     
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  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Arminian Commando: Yup, on a few occasions you are correct, very few.

    Those wascally "hyper" guys are a rabid group of we are the people and wisdom will die with us.

    It is exciting speaking to a Wesleyan Quadrilateral.

    Stay tuned!
     
  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dr.Robert Young

    Author of…

    1. A New Translation Of The Bible

    2. New Concordance To The Greek New Testament

    3. Dictionary & Concordance Of Bible Words & Synonyms.

    4. Concise Concordance To Eight Thousand Changes Of The Revised Testament

    5. Numerous Other Words In Biblical & Oriental Literature.
    Dr. Robert Young Analytical Concordance

    pa’ß =

    All points, all men, all things. All, whole, completely. (1075 verses)

    All = lk=

    All, the whole, any, each, every, everything, totality. (24 passages)

    All =lylk=

    Entire, all. Complete, wholly. (15 verses)

    All = br =

    Multitudes/ abundance (149 verses)

    All= o&loß =

    All. Whole. Completely. (99 verses)

    This is your mission for today, should you be willing to accept it… List the “many” Koine Greek scholars who maintain all does not mean all.

    Koine Greek Scholars: All does not mean all =

    1 _____________________________________________.

    2.______________________________________________

    3.______________________________________________

    4.______________________________________________

    Why not start with the Greek-English Lexicon Of The New Testament by William F. Arndt & Wilbur Gingrich

    PAS, pa’sa, pa’n gen. pantov", pavsh", pantov" (dat. pl. pa’si and pa’sin vary considerably in the mss.; s. W-S. §5, 28; cf. Rob. 219-21) (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, En., Ep. Arist., Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.).
     
  6. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake"

    But the YE was not hated by other Followers of Jesus, hence, they were not literally hated by ALL men.

    ( I don't know five Koine Greek scholars, much less who of them says all really means all)
     
  7. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Commando: You have now provided another exception to the radical all. Well done. Would you be happier with>>>

    You shall be hated of [some men] for My Names sake.

    Regarding providing 5 additional koine scholars: only 4 were asked for.

    How does this appeal to your skill as a commando?>>>

    “There is but one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of [some], who rules over [some], acts through [some], and dwells in [some]. Yet to each of us individually grace was given, measured out with the munificence of Christ. For this reason Scripture says: ‘He re-ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, and gave gifts to men.’ (Now this ‘re-ascended’ --what does it mean but that He had first descended into the lower regions of the earth? He who descended is the same as He who ascended again far above [some of] the Heavens in order to fill the universe.”

    Come unto Me [some] of you that are weary.... and I will give you rest.

     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  8. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    When I come up against that type of question I go to the Concordance, not for the answer but to gain an insight into the word and how it was used.

    I first get how the word in question was Defined.

    In this case the word (ALL) is Defined as.

    ALL:
    GREEK
    G3956
    πᾶς
    pas
    pas
    Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

    This then is the starting point in order to determine whether or not, this should be the Definition for this word in this verse.

    I find that in Mat. 1:17 is the first usage of this particular word and Definition.

    Mat 1:17 - - - ALL: G-3956
    So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
    I then find in Mat. 6:32

    Then in Mat 6:32 (ALL) is used two times with different Definitions, but the second Definition Bolsters and strengthens the First.
    Mat 6:32 - - - ALL: G-3956 as well as ALL: G-537 are used
    (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

    ALL:
    GREEK
    G537
    ἅπας
    hapas
    hap'-as
    From G1 (as a particle of union) and G-3956; absolutely all or (singular) every one: - all (things), every (one), whole.

    Now, here is the challenge for the word, it's usage and ultimately it's Definition, to determine whether or not the Definition is correct, for said word (ALL) in the verse in question.

    Take the Definition (ALL) G-3956 and place it in a number of verses where the Definition (ALL) G-3650 is used in the same verse.

    Then transpose the two words in that verse.

    When they are transposed, does the Definition for each word properly describe the use of that word?

    In other word, does the Verse now make sense, with the Definitions in their new places?

    Example:

    Mat 4:23
    And Jesus went about (ALL) G-3650 Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing (ALL) G-3956 manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

    Luke 7:17
    And this rumour of him went forth throughout (ALL) G-3650 Judaea, and throughout (ALL) G-3956 the region round about.

    As a final example. Change them all to (ALL) 3956

    Luke 0:27
    And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with (ALL) G-3650 thy heart, and with (ALL) G-3650 thy soul, and with (ALL) G-3650 thy strength, and with (ALL) G-3056 thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

    I believe the Definition of the word (ALL) in the ALL verses are rightfully Defined.
     
  9. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Jiminz: Much thanks for your post, it is appreciated.

    The concordance is not the first place F.L. heads, I attempt to see what Father is saying in my old spirit by His Spirit.

    With that wee line of thinking, let's pursue Vine's Dictionary>>>

    A — 1: πᾶς [​IMG]

    (Strong's #3956 — Adjective — pas — pas )

    radically means "all."

    Used without the article it means "every," every kind or variety. So the RV marg. in Ephesians 2:21 , "every building," and the text in Ephesians 3:15 , "every family," and the RV marg. of Acts 2:36 , "every house;" or it may signify "the highest degree," the maximum of what is referred to, as, "with all boldness" Acts 4:29 . Before proper names of countries, cities and nations, and before collective terms, like "Israel," it signifies either "all" or "the whole," e.g., Matthew 2:3 ; Acts 2:36 . Used with the article, it means the whole of one object. In the plural it signifies "the totality of the persons or things referred to." Used without a noun it virtually becomes a pronoun, meaning "everyone" or "anyone." In the plural with a noun it means "all." One form of the neuter plural (panta) signifies "wholly, together, in all ways, in all things," Acts 20:35 ; 1 Corinthians 9:25 . The neuter plural without the article signifies "all things severally," e.g., John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 2:10 ; preceded by the article it denotes "all things," as constituting a whole, e.g., Romans 11:36 ; 1 Corinthians 8:6 ; Ephesians 3:9 .

    See EVERY , Note (1), WHOLE.
     
  10. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus loves the little children
    Some of all types of all the children in the world
    Red and yellow, black and white
    Some are precious in His sight
    Jesus loves some of the children of the world
     
  11. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Good grief Commando! I find nothing in me that can even begin to contemplate such a dismal scenario.

    If any of us are having trouble grasping the radical pas, just wait patiently until the super radical all is presented.

    Panta with ta
     
  12. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Pretty much.
    Virtually.
     
  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Question: What do you call a Wesleyan circuit preacher's horse?

    Answer: A Wesleyan quadruped.
     
  14. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wesley did not write his own Quadrilateral. Albert Outler, a theologian in the sixties, formulated what Wesley WOULD HAVE SAID.

    It's exciting to BE a Wesleyan Quadrilateralist
     
  15. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I cannot conceive of anything more exciting, whether being a Wesleyan standing on its own, or the exotic dimension of Wesleyan Quadrilateralist. Dear Lord my head is hurting!

    Back to the theme: What was the theme?

    I remember: All does not mean the radical all?

    "As in Adam all die, so in Christ shall [some] be made alive." -Commando edition-
     
  16. grafted branch

    grafted branch Member Supporter

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    Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

    So people who think all means absolutely every person, then must also think the beast makes every single person receive the mark and there will be no saved people on earth.

    Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    This next verse seems to indicate that there are some people on earth who won’t be able to buy or sell because they haven’t received the mark; and if they die of starvation then not everyone got the mark. So I would have to conclude that the word all means some but not every single person.
     
  17. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    No, only ALL of those who are (IN) Christ, are made alive.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  18. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Jiminz: Let me get this clear. All die in Adam1, all are not made alive in Christ?

    Can you tell all of us what IN/EN means?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  19. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Can you tell ALL of us, has everyone born in the last 2,000 yrs. been made alive in Christ, or is it only those who have received Christ as Savior?

    But to answer you question.
    Adam being the Father of All physical human beings we are in the same fallen state which He became and caused us to be in.

    In other words, All of the Jews ever born were in Abraham, does that mean he personally, propagated each and ever one, and what about those who are of Faith, we are said to have been in him as well, how is he responsible for my coming to Faith?

    On the other hand I and ALL Christians who have been Baptized are IN Christ.

    There is a big difference between our being in Adam, and our being IN Christ.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  20. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I think you guys are making more out of the word "in" than you should, and not enough out of the word "all" that you should.

    1 Corinthians 15:22
    For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
     
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