Does a GLOBAL FLOOD truly seem like the BEST explanation for seashells on mountains?

OldWiseGuy · Apr 11, 2013

Loudmouth said:
So death genes are a fictitious government agency that decides when to the pull the plug on seniors?

No. 'Death genes' is a metaphor for limits of lifespan as either pronounced or observed by God.

Loudmouth · Apr 11, 2013

oldwiseguy said:
No. 'Death genes' is a metaphor for limits of lifespan as either pronounced or observed by God.

Please show that God pronounced or observed anything.

Please show that God put any genes in any species.

Or are you going to keep repeating long lists of bare assertions?

Loudmouth · Apr 11, 2013

Gradyll,

You may want to check out this paper by Horner that happened to be listed as a reference in the book you are citing.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v297/n5868/pdf/297675a0.pdf

In the paper Horner describes finding eggshell fragments still in the nests. Is this the same flood that was supposed to rend bone from flesh in that same deposit?

Even more, Horner reports 3 soil horizons, one on top of another, with dugout nests, eggshells, and even dead hatchlings. So did these dinosaurs swim to the bottom of the flood waters 2 times to dig new nests and hatch young? Even more, above these layers is a paleosol layer which requires subaerial conditions. If anything, these deposits are extremely strong evidence against a global flood and a young earth.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 11, 2013

Loudmouth said:
Please show that God pronounced or observed anything.

Please show that God put any genes in any species.

Or are you going to keep repeating long lists of bare assertions?

twinc · Apr 11, 2013

ThouShaltNotPoe said:
I'm always amazed when young earth creationists tell me that this is OBVIOUSLY a "proof" of Noah's Flood. But I would really like to know if that sounds like "common sense" to anyone.

I've also wondered this: Does it seem likely that a FLOOD would leave behind the same kind of environment as an ancient ocean or lake?

Also, if these observation and evidence are "obvious", why are young earth creationists never able to use that evidence to identify THE GEOLOGIC STRATA OF THE GLOBAL FLOOD? That is, if the flood evidence is easy to see, why can't the strata location be named so that I know where I can find the flood evidence wherever I happen to be in the world?

there were no mountains pre flood - the now mountain tops were in many cases part of the sea bed - look for strata with millions of dead things buried in sedimentary rock layers laid down by water all over the earth - twinc

Loudmouth · Apr 11, 2013

twinc said:
there were no mountains pre flood -

Based on what evidence?

Subduction Zone · Apr 11, 2013

twinc said:
there were no mountains pre flood - the now mountain tops were in many cases part of the sea bed - look for strata with millions of dead things buried in sedimentary rock layers laid down by water all over the earth - twinc

Wrong, we know there have been mountains as long as people have been on the face of the Earth. The Himalayans mean that you need five miles of water to cover the Earth.

twinc · Apr 11, 2013

gradyll said:
I did not understand your comment,

can you expand?

thanks

the answer is simple the info was passed on by those on the ARK and later on appeared elsewhere - but the original account in the Bible was certified by God - twinc

twinc · Apr 11, 2013

Subduction Zone said:
Wrong, we know there have been mountains as long as people have been on the face of the Earth. The Himalayans mean that you need five miles of water to cover the Earth.

not at all - it is even conjectured that the Himalayas were formed by a collison of land masses and continental drift and upheavals etc triggered by the Flood - twinc

Mikecpking · Apr 11, 2013

twinc said:
not at all - it is even conjectured that the Himalayas were formed by a collison of land masses and continental drift and upheavals etc triggered by the Flood - twinc

For someone who lives on the Wirral, you would have a hard time explaining Snowdonia and the Cambrian mountains in Wales attributed to single flood event.

The Himalayas are still rising today (measured) and India is subducting under the Asian plate (also measured).

You arretions are just empty words without evidence and to quote someone else's signature.

"Assertions without proof and can be dismissed without proof".

Lucy Stulz · Apr 11, 2013

twinc said:
not at all - it is even conjectured that the Himalayas were formed by a collison of land masses and continental drift and upheavals etc triggered by the Flood - twinc

It all comes down to a matter of scale.

You want to raise the Himalayas within the time humans have been settled in societies? Then you are talking about 10 feet increase in elevation per year for a couple thousand years.

When did it slow down? Right now it's only a few inches/year uplift.

As a person advocating this kind of scale you need to explain a couple of items:

1. Why in the last several thousand years did not one bother to mention these mountains literally rising several human heights each year year after year and the attendant non-stop earthquakes and associated disasters that would be occuring.

2. What mechanism is driving this while preserving the isostatic "roots" you see on many mountain chains.

3. Why is this more reasonable than standard geology like we see happening every day?

and

4. When did all this disastrousness stop happening so we could settle into regular every-day life?

AV1611VET · Apr 11, 2013

Lucy Stulz said:
It all comes down to a matter of scale.

You want to raise the Himalayas within the time humans have been settled in societies? Then you are talking about 10 feet increase in elevation per year for a couple thousand years.

When did it slow down? Right now it's only a few inches/year uplift.

As a person advocating this kind of scale you need to explain a couple of items:

1. Why in the last several thousand years did not one bother to mention these mountains literally rising several human heights each year year after year and the attendant non-stop earthquakes and associated disasters that would be occuring.

2. What mechanism is driving this while preserving the isostatic "roots" you see on many mountain chains.

3. Why is this more reasonable than standard geology like we see happening every day?

and

4. When did all this disastrousness stop happening so we could settle into regular every-day life?

Habakkuk 3:6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

This passage tells me that "standard geology" can take a hike.

Subduction Zone · Apr 11, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Habakkuk 3:6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

This passage tells me that "standard geology" can take a hike.

Yes, AVET has decided that even with all of its countless self contradictions, failed prophecies, and bad science that he has decided to believe the Bible regardless what it says.

Real life evidence means nothing to him.

AV1611VET · Apr 11, 2013

Subduction Zone said:
Real life evidence means nothing to him.

I see what "real life evidence" did for the crew of the Challenger.

Just out of curiosity, does "real life evidence" say Israel doesn't have a divine right to the Promised Land?

How many moons should we have, according to "real life evidence"?*

* Please answer this one.

Loudmouth · Apr 11, 2013

AV1611VET said:
I see what "real life evidence" did for the crew of the Challenger.

Yes, it allowed us to figure out what caused the accident and make improvements to save the lives of future astronauts. Darn that real life evidence.

Subduction Zone · Apr 11, 2013

AV1611VET said:
I see what "real life evidence" did for the crew of the Challenger.

No, you don't. You don't even know why that happened. Your investigation into that has been as shallow as any of your attempt to understand science.

Just out of curiosity, does "real life evidence" say Israel doesn't have a divine right to the Promised Land?

Did I ever claim any such nonsense either way? If anything the redevelopment of Israel can be attributed to the Jews who did not "kick Palestinians" off their land as far as I can tell. They bought land at inflated prices from absentee landlords and literally made the desert bloom. I have no beef with Israel.

How many moons should we have, according to "real life evidence"?*

Since the Moon may have had an influence on evolution one does rather nicely.

Why do you ask nonsense questions like this? You are not making any sort of valid point in doing so.

* Please answer this one.

Which one? Is this supposed to be a complete sentence?

twinc · Apr 11, 2013

twinc said:
there were no mountains pre flood - the now mountain tops were in many cases part of the sea bed - look for strata with millions of dead things buried in sedimentary rock layers laid down by water all over the earth - twinc

btw whar ancient ocean or lake are you talking about - twinc

Subduction Zone · Apr 11, 2013

twinc, since the Earth is billions of years old and even the youngest of mountain ranges are millions of years old what do you mean by "ancient ocean or lake"?

Anything in the last hundred million years is usually not considered to be "ancient" in geological terms.

Lucy Stulz · Apr 11, 2013

AV1611VET said:
I see what "real life evidence" did for the crew of the Challenger.

Clearly Challenger was a divine punishment.

If only there was a natural physical explanation...but such was not the case and so it remains a complete mystery to this very day. And we have now stopped using shuttles because the only thing we could conclude was that they were an affront to God.

Just out of curiosity, does "real life evidence" say Israel doesn't have a divine right to the Promised Land?

Divine right? Well, pretty much by definition, eh?

How many moons should we have, according to "real life evidence"?*

"Should we have"? I'm going to guess a zillion? Or none. Why should we have a moon at all?

Here's some deeper questions:

"According to faith-based evidence, how many fingers am I holding up right now?"

"According to the Book of Job, how many cookies should I put in a ziplock bag?"

Lucy Stulz · Apr 11, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Habakkuk 3:6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

This passage tells me that "standard geology" can take a hike.

Thankfuly Habakkuk didn't have to fill his car up with petroleum. Or power his computer with coal-generated electricity.

Times were simpler then. Everyone took a hike. All the time.

Does a GLOBAL FLOOD truly seem like the BEST explanation for seashells on mountains?

Wake me when it's soup.

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SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

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