Doctrine that Adds to Scripture

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Major1

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I never said Jesus needed baptism for salvation. So the rest of your post is meaningless.

You said................
"As by the immersion of His body He dedicated the laver of baptism, He has shewn that to us also, after baptism received, the entrance to heaven is open and the Holy Spirit is given, as it follows, "and the heavens were opened."

"This is a great passage proving the necessity of Baptism for Salvation.,"

If you did not mean that then you were very ambiguous in your comment as it certainly appears that is what you said.
 
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concretecamper

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You said................
"As by the immersion of His body He dedicated the laver of baptism, He has shewn that to us also, after baptism received, the entrance to heaven is open and the Holy Spirit is given, as it follows, "and the heavens were opened."

"This is a great passage proving the necessity of Baptism for Salvation.,"

If you did not mean that then you were very ambiguous in your comment as it certainly appears that is what you said.

Haha. I don't know if you are obtuse on purpose or not. Either way it is too tiresome to try to converse with someone who always see what is not there. Feel free to have the last word.
 
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DeaconDean

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I would say the the only reason was to set an example of obedience.

So what was Jesus being obedient to?

It wasn't John's baptism as it was a baptism of repentance.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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This is a great passage proving the necessity of Baptism for Salvation.,

Opposed to this is the fact that the thief on the cross wasn't baptized.

And if there is indeed a necessity of Baptism for salvation, then why is it Paul did not perform but two (2) baptisms as recorded in scripture?

That is purely Catholic dogma speaking.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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concretecamper

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Opposed to this is the fact that the thief on the cross wasn't baptized.

The thief died prior to Christ's resurrection. I would say the thief was save under the Old Covenant.

The necessity of Baptism is the Bible speaking. It is only recent protestant innovations that says it is not needed.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The thief died prior to Christ's resurrection. I would say the thief was save under the Old Covenant.

The necessity of Baptism is the Bible speaking. It is only recent protestant innovations that says it is not needed.

Under what provisions of the Old Covenant was the thief saved? He had directly disobeyed one of the Ten Commandments and had failed to offer the required sin offering at the Temple. Therefore, under the Old Covenant, as he himself testified, he was being put to death justly. Was his faith placed in the Old Covenant and its provisions? I think not.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Really, the Romans were crucifying this fellow because he broke the OT Law? are you serious?

He broke both the law of Rome as well as God's law. Both violations were capital offenses. If I, as an American, commit a crime in another country which is a capital offense in both countries, justice will be served.

Now, are you at all serious in believing that the thief actually did not place his faith in Jesus Christ, but was justified in his obedience to the Old Testament Law?
 
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DeaconDean

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The thief died prior to Christ's resurrection. I would say the thief was save under the Old Covenant.

The necessity of Baptism is the Bible speaking. It is only recent protestant innovations that says it is not needed.

Ok, then how do you account for what Paul said, and the fact that he only baptized 2 people, IF, baptism is necessary for salvation?

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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concretecamper

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He broke both the law of Rome as well as God's law. Both violations were capital offenses. If I, as an American, commit a crime in another country which is a capital offense in both countries, justice will be served

I see your now scrambling to drag in other facts to make your original statement somehow make a little bit of sense.

You said
"He had directly disobeyed one of the Ten Commandments and had failed to offer the required sin offering at the Temple. Therefore, under the Old Covenant, as he himself testified, he was being put to death justly"

The fact is he was not being put to death because he broke the 10 Commandments. I can see the Jews at that time sitting around thinking "uh oh, I forgot to offer 2 turtle doves today, the Romans are going to kill me"^_^
 
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concretecamper

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concretecamper

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Ok, then how do you account for what Paul said, and the fact that he only baptized 2 people, IF, baptism is necessary for salvation?

God Bless

Till all are one.

For it hath been signified unto me, my brethren, of you, by them that are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. [12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith: I indeed am of Paul; and I am of Apollo; and I am of Cephas; and I of Christ. [13] Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul? [14] I give God thanks, that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Caius; [15] Lest any should say that you were baptized in my name.

it seems like baptism was common.
 
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Major1

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So what was Jesus being obedient to?

It wasn't John's baptism as it was a baptism of repentance.

God Bless

Till all are one.

He was being obedient to the Father.

It does not matter who's baptism it was, Jesus had NO sin and NO sin nature so the act of baptism had nothing to do with salvation or the remission of sin concerning Him.
 
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Erose

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Opposed to this is the fact that the thief on the cross wasn't baptized.

The thief died prior to Christ's resurrection. I would say the thief was save under the Old Covenant.

The necessity of Baptism is the Bible speaking. It is only recent protestant innovations that says it is not needed.
The best answer is that the thief experienced the baptism of desire. Obviously he was unable to be baptized stuck up on the cross about to die. It also points out that although the Sacraments are the normal means by which Christ dispenses His grace to man, and in the case of Baptism His salvific grace; Jesus is not limited to those said Sacraments. The thief repented and Jesus took care of the rest.
 
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Major1

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The best answer is that the thief experienced the baptism of desire. Obviously he was unable to be baptized stuck up on the cross about to die. It also points out that although the Sacraments are the normal means by which Christ dispenses His grace to man, and in the case of Baptism His salvific grace; Jesus is not limited to those said Sacraments. The thief repented and Jesus took care of the rest.[/QUOTE

The best answer my friend is that Baptism by water has nothing to do with salvation whatsoever.

Let me ask you this question, what did the water of the Jordan have to do with Naaman’s cleansing?

Did dipping him in the Jordan cure his leprosy?
 
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Major1

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The best answer is that the thief experienced the baptism of desire. Obviously he was unable to be baptized stuck up on the cross about to die. It also points out that although the Sacraments are the normal means by which Christ dispenses His grace to man, and in the case of Baptism His salvific grace; Jesus is not limited to those said Sacraments. The thief repented and Jesus took care of the rest.

The best answer is that water baptism has nothing to do with salvation!

It has nothing to do with what Jesus could or could not have done, grace withstanding. He was promised heaven because of his confessing of Jesus Christ and it proves that baptism has nothing to do with being saved.
 
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