Doctorate in Apologetics?

[emmzee]

Hi all,

Hope someone here can give me some advice.

I'm currently almost finished doing my Masters of Theological Studies (2yr masters degree) at Tyndale Seminary in Toronto ( www.tyndale.ca ). I'm debating whether or not I should switch into the MDiv program (3yr degree) so that I could go on to get my doctorate eventually.

My main area of interest is in apologetics, and related disciplines, like philosophy of religion, and world/contemporary religions. I was looking at various schools online, but most do not offer doctorate programs focused in this area. Many offer "DPhil" degrees but most of those aren't related to apologetics. The reason I'd want to get my doctorate is to be able to teach in my area(s) of interest.

Another consideration is that since I have been on the MTS track, I haven't taken any ancient language courses (neither Greek nor Hebrew) and don't know any modern language other than English. (Well, I know a little French from my grade-school days, but I'm certainly not fluent!) Many schools expect you to know English, Greek, Hebrew, German and French fluently ... which isn't gunna happen in my case

So, anyone have any recommendations as per which schools offer a program that would be a good fit, and whose language requirements aren't outrageous? (I don't mind learning Greek and/or Hebrew for example.) I was looking at SES ( www.ses.edu ) but my prof suggested that isn't a school that's held in particularly high esteem. (Translation: It won't be easy to get a job teaching at respected/ATS-accredited schools with a SES degree.)

I have a feeling that there is no good fit available; a doctorate may just not be where God wants me. Anywho, let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks!

 

[OldStudent]

Acts 16 starting at verse 6, Paul finds himself in the doldrums. He had just completed a task and couldn't seem to get a handle on what to do next. In due time the opportunity came to him and he was off and running.

Early '91 the position I was working was closed. It was 3 1/2 yrs before another position came to me. In the mean time we started to retool. I folded in some previous college work and began BA studies in Theology at the local Nazarene college. It was late July when we (wife and I) applied. Classes were just over a month away and we figured if we got in we were likely to miss the first few days. We sat in class on day one! I got in two of the needed three years. Come time to get into year three nothing worked. I began setting up in late March but the paper work got lost, messed up, and I missed out. Close that door. I became aware of a college in my own denomination (SDA) that had an Adult Degree Program. It was about 800 miles away. The hang up was that they had on campus time requirements of about a week to start and end a sequence of study. The rest of the work was done at home. Like that was going to work as I was now employed. Right! But it did! and I got As and except in technical studies I rarely got As. It was a fabulous time and much was learned.

Keep searching for a place to serve. I, obviously, know next to nothing about you. I did notice you are in your late 20s. I have a daughter who just turned 30, has completed two master degrees and would like to continue for a doctorate. School she likes. It's interesting, comfortable, sheltered. But economic forces are pulling her out into service - though she is in a chaplaincy residency program - still in training. She weans slowly.

Could it be that God has a place of service just about to come over the horizon? I told my story because what was just across town couldn't be made to work but something 800 miles away was wonderful. All that travel was in an old Chevette that gave up shortly after. You too will have a story. Just check out the leads He places in your reach. Even your quiet time can be part of the preparation.

 

[fuzzyh]

I'm currrently in the MA in philosophy program as SES. I've talked with a few Christian philosophers about the program. They've said that it's probably not the strongest program in the country, but neither is it a terrible flop. At this moment in my life, my biggest struggle was that I would like to go on to work on a doctorate, but my BBS just wasn't enough.

I was trying to figure out what ATS meant, and I'm guessing that the Association of Theological Schools. SES happens to be accredited by TRACS.

As it stands, I'm not certain how far you are in your MTS degree and what it would add to switch to the MDiv. I considered the MDiv from SES or a few other schools. However, I had little interested in the counseling/pastoral theology type classes. My interests lay in theology/philosophy/apologetics. With a MTS degree you aren't automatically disqualified for doctoral work. Certainly you don't get the languages, but you still get a decent education.

Here some things that I would consider. I'm not certain how much you know in the field of apologetics, but if you have a pretty good grasp of an apologetic for God's existence, the Bible being the Word of God and Jesus Christ being God's son, I'd consider a slightly different field of work. My interest is in philosophy, not simply philosophy of religion, although I read quite a bit of that, I also enjoy philosophy of science, epistemology, etc. Once I'm done with my MA, I will apply for PhD programs in philosophy at secular schools. The reason being, I'd like the opportunity to refine my thoughts against students and professors who entirely disagree. I'd like to do apologetics and much as study apologetics. I'd recommend everyone who is thinks about apologetics, to consider studying a related field

Another option is this, go work on a second master degree, like the MA in Philosophy of Religion and Ethics from Talbot. That's one of the best MA programs in philosophy in the nation.

Good luck and God Bless.

 

[emmzee]

Thanks for your comments!

OldStudent, your comments were encouraging and thoughtful. I read over Acts 16 and understand where you're coming from.

fuzzyh, thanks for your comments, especially since you're attending SES. I wasn't intending to put down SES at all; in fact, of all the doctorate programs I've seen, the DPhil at SES is the one that (based on its content) interests me the most. The only worry I have is that a doctorate from SES may limit my future teaching possibilities, and since it'd cost a lot of $ I want to make sure its as widely applicable as possible.

I need to find out some more info from my school regarding some course substitutions and the exact req's of the necessary internship, but right now I am leaning towards doing my MDiv in Theology ...

I'll update this thread when I eventually make my decision ... thanks again (if anyone else has opinions please do post!)

BTW if you're interested in some of my thoughts on apologetics topics, check my "faith blog" at www.whyfaith.com

 

[fuzzyh]

One side thing, I have only seen a DMin program at SES, not a DPhil, which is typically a degree from a school in England.

 

[emmzee]

Oops, yes, you're correct, I meant DMin.

 

[servant4ever]

I believe you can go for a DMin with a MATS degree. I'm in seminary now and I know most people who want to go for a Doctorate degree go with the MATS program.

 

[fuzzyh]

Depends on the program. You can do a lot as long as you show competence in certain areas. Although competence typically comes from school, but not necessarily. Last I checked in some, most(?), maybe even all, states you can take the bar examine without Law School. I've also heard of guys taking the MCats and doing quite well with out undergrad work in any field related to biology. It just takes study, determination and dedication. I digress.

 

[emmzee]

After a lot of thought over the last few days, I've decided not to continue in school at the moment. I haven't ruled out taking courses in the future, or taking something online/distance (possibly a Masters in Philosophy from SES or a similar program from another school), but I'm not planning to switch to a path towards a PhD. There were several reasons for my decision, but one of them was that I realized that a large part of the reason why I was wanting to get my PhD was for prideful reasons; honor, prestige, etc. Not exactly great motives! Of course I DO also have an interest in teaching, but that lurking unhealthy & unbiblical motivation (combined with other factors) caused me to make this decision.

Thanks for all your comments!

 

[fuzzyh]

You know that's a decision you don't have to make now. Continue doing what you are doing. If God opens the door great, if don't worry. Although, the one recommendation I could give is finish your MATS degree. Once you start something, I think we need to be faithful to finish it. Especially when someone is closer.

 

[emmzee]

Yes, just to be clear, I am going to finish my MTS. I after this semester, I'll need to complete only one more course to graduate, which I'll be taking this summer.

I'm so excited because the course I've signed up for is a week long course about the historical case for the resurrection taught at Tyndale by ... Gary Habermas! Woohoo

http://www.tyndale.ca/summer/viewcourse.php?id=92

 

[fuzzyh]

Awesome. I'm also looking forward to a day when I can get a class by Habermas in at SES.

 

[HumbleUnderdog]

Since you're at Tyndale at the moment, check out McMaster Divinity in Hamilton. Don't think there's too much else here in the Ontario area except a couple bible colleges. My pastor went to Tyndale (called OBC at the time) and had some classes with Ravi Zacharias, so you might not be in the wrong school.