Do your best to explain Romans 5

[zoidar]

He did die for all mankind but not all enter into his salvation, that is by faith and not all receive him by faith.

Agreed! But isn't that against the Calvinist teaching?

 

[GodsGrace101]

There are too many theories. Only one truth.

What is it?
Different ideas are presented in the bible.

 

[sdowney717]

Agreed! But isn't that against the Calvinist teaching?

Christ died for all mankind, not just the jews otherwise none of the gentiles could be saved.
But if you get down to personal atonement, then Christ died for 'our sins' according to the scriptures, is just for believers. And consider Christ says His own death is so that those who believe can have eternal life, none of that is for unbelievers.. That is why Christ died, not for some unknown purpose to generally save every person, Christ saves His people from their sin and only them. Christ's death is only for the people of God that then have the atonement of their sins.

The angel (likely Gabriel) says it right here
Matthew 1:20-22 New King James Version (NKJV)

20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is [a]conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

 

[zoidar]

Christ died for all mankind, not just the jews otherwise none of the gentiles could be saved.
But if you get down to personal atonement, then Christ died for 'our sins' according to the scriptures, is just for believers. And consider Christ says His own death is so that those who believe can have eternal life, none of that is for unbelievers.. That is why Christ died, not for some unknown purpose to generally save every person, Christ saves His people from their sin and only them. Christ's death is only for the people of God that then have the atonement of their sins.

The angel Gabriel says it right here
Matthew 1:20-22 New King James Version (NKJV)
20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is [a]conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Isn't mankind all inclusive? Or are some people not part of mankind?

Is there any verse you can quote from the Bible where it says that Christ didn't die for a person?

 

[ladodgers6]

Yes, by Adam the many were made sinners, and by Christ the many will be made righteous. Doesn't that only say that those who believe in Christ will be righteous? Does it say anything about whom Jesus died for?

Christ died for those whom the Father gave to Him to save (John 6:39). Calvin refer to it as the invisible church. Meaning we do not know who the Elect are. Sorry you are asking for, what the Scripture do not reveal.

 

[sdowney717]

Isn't mankind all inclusive? Or are some people not part of mankind?

Is there any verse you can quote from the Bible where it says that Christ didn't die for a person?

Christ's death was not wasted on unbelievers, His death accomplished the salvation only for the people of God. If Christ died for unbelievers, then that means His purpose was not accomplished which was to give eternal life to all those the Father has given to Him.
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

You have to get in there and think why exactly did God send Christ? And we have the answer also in John 6, and John 17. Christ does NOT pray for the unbelieving world where His death would be wasted, Christ only prays for those the Father has given to Him. It is for them that He intercedes on their behalf to the Father.

Love and the world is an extension of the grace of God to gentile nations, not just the jews, The early church was very jewish centric, these scriptures point out to the jews and gentiles that God is extending grace to all the nations all over the earth. Remember it is by Grace that your are saved. So if your a believing gentile or jew, then this is because of God's favoring love on you.

 

[ladodgers6]

Yes, by Adam the many were made sinners, and by Christ the many will be made righteous. Doesn't that only say that those who believe in Christ will be righteous? Does it say anything about whom Jesus died for?

But if you are wondering if you are one of the Elect? Your election is found in Christ! If you believe who Jesus said He is, and what He accomplish for YOU (pronoun)! Then you are one of the elect.

 

[zoidar]

Christ died for those whom the Father gave to Him to save (John 6:39). Calvin refer to it as the invisible church. Meaning we do not know who the Elect are. Sorry you are asking for, what the Scripture do not reveal.

In John 6:39, whom is Jesus talking about? John 6:40 "everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life". I believe that means everyone.

 

[zoidar]

Christ's death was not wasted on unbelievers, His death accomplished the salvation only for the people of God. If Christ died for unbelievers, then that means His purpose was not accomplished which was to give eternal life to all those the Father has given to Him.
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

You have to get in there and think why exactly did God send Christ? And we have the answer also in John 6, and John 17. Christ does NOT pray for the unbelieving world where His death would be wasted, Christ only prays for those the Father has given to Him. It is for them that He intercedes on their behalf to the Father.

Love and the world is an extension of the grace of God to gentile nations, not just the jews, The early church was very jewish centric, these scriptures point out to the jews and gentiles that God is extending grace to all the nations all over the earth. Remember it is by Grace that your are saved. So if your a believing gentile or jew, then this is because of God's favoring love on you.

Actually John 3:16 says "Whoever". And Jesus prayes for "all those who that will believe in him". Who are the "whoever" and "all those"? Everyone can be part of the "all those", and all men are the "whoever".

But now we are drifting away from Romans 5...

 

[sdowney717]

Actually John 3:16 says "Whoever". And Jesus prayes for "all those who that will believe in him". Who are the "whoever" and "all those"? Everyone can be part of the "all those", and all men are the "whoever".

But now we are drifting away from Romans 5...

The only ones who are the whoevers, are those God the Father granted to come to Christ.
'Whosoever' here is more for our understanding, that God was not limiting His grace.
But is still 'by grace that you are saved'. And that means His choice, not ours. And He chose us because of His great love for us. (individually picked us out)

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[zoidar]

But if you are wondering if you are one of the Elect? Your election is found in Christ! If you believe who Jesus said He is, and what He accomplish for YOU (pronoun)! Then you are one of the elect.

I'm not at all wondering if I'm one of the elect ... never crossed my mind.

 

[zoidar]

The only ones who are the whoevers, are those God the Father granted to come to Christ.
'Whosoever' here is more for our understanding, that God was not limiting His grace.
But is still 'by grace that you are saved'. And that means His choice, not ours. And He chose us because of His great love for us. (individually picked us out)

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

There is a thread to discuss election here: Problem with Election

I would like us to focus on Romans 5, which was the reason for this thread.

 

[zoidar]

Romans 5:17
"For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ."

"those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness"

I am of opinion that "those who" are the same as the "whoever" in John 3:16.

In other words "Every man, all men, everyone"

 

[112358]

I think vs. 17 and 21 represent best the theme of the chapter, which is not original sin or election or calling. It is the contrast between sin and death, and righteousness and life through Christ, who made life and righteousness possible because of His sacrifice.

Twice the reference is made to grace reigning through righteousness. The chapter teaches us where God’s grace is to be found...through faith and through righteousness.

 

[112358]

As far as the rest of the Calvinist stuff, if God elects some but not others that means a being created in His own image was created for the purpose of eternal destruction. That is not, was not, never will be the will of the God who is Love, and it is against His very nature.
It it point blank heresy. Period end of story.

 

[redleghunter]

One chapter I've been reading maybe more than any other chapter in the Bible, that is Romans 5. Since it's a description of the atonement, it's a very central chapter of the Bible. Do your best to explain the whole, or just a part of Romans 5. Let us discuss this chapter and do our best to understand it.

Christ love,

P

Did you mean Romans 3?

 

[redleghunter]

You then believe "all men" means all mankind? I know Calvinists would disagree...

However Universalists would agree.

Quite a conundrum.

 

[redleghunter]

I applaud you for trying to talk to Calvinists, but most of them don't believe the Bible.

Quite an assertion.

 

[redleghunter]

The justification is there for them if they want it.

How do they get it?

 

[redleghunter]

No, the free gift is paid for and freely offered to all men, but not all men receive it. It doesn't deny the fact that Jesus is savior of all, even though not all receive salvation. You're limiting the sacrifice of Christ with your limited atonement garbage.

1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." Well if he's paid for everyone's sins as the Bible says, why doesn't everyone get salvation?

Because not everyone chooses life like the children of Israel were given the choice to choose life (Deuteronomy 30:19), and receives Christ to become born of God (John 1:12, Romans 5:2, 1 John 5:1).

Well how is that possible, you ask? Because we have free will.

So God is waiting for us to decide to accept Him? How does that work?