Do you worry if you are saved or not?

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

No it doesn't

Talking in tounges is no proof of being saved or that you have the holy Spirit. It's been very much misused.

I didn't post this because of being unsure about my salvation, but because many Christians seem to be unsure.

First of all the bible says these are the signs of them that believe.... and it says cast out demons... lay hands on sick and see them recover and it says speak in tounques all in this same verse.

Next based off acts 2 it easily does prove this, I mean to suggest it was just a coincidence they spoke in tounques is ludicrous, the bible is the mind of God not just a history book. Additionally i've experienced this myself multiple times and a refilling today at church, it's real man. The spirit of God is real.



And honestly you're not making any sense. So you're saying the bible (it does though) doesn't prove that you shouldn't doubt being saved yet you don't doubt that you are saved through your method of salvation?

This is part of the reason the church is so weak right now... people doubting their own salvation (assuming they even have it).

 

[zoidar]

I was saved 7 years ago and I didn't speak in tongues... The holy Spirit can make you speak in tounges, yes, but you can also speak in tounges without the holy Spirit.

What I'm saying is that the bible doesn't say that you can't be saved just because you have doubts about your salvation.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I was saved 7 years ago and I didn't speak in tounges... The holy Spirit can make you speak in tounges, yes, but you can also speak in tounges without the holy Spirit.

What I'm saying is that bibel doesn't say that you can't be saved just because you have doubts about your salvation.

There are cases in the bible (like with Paul) where someone didn't speak. But just typically teh sign is speaking is what I mean.

And no i'm not saying you can't be saved doubting it. But what i'm saying is if you have been doubting you're saved for a considerable period of time then maybe you're not is all i'm saying.

This was the case with my brother.



I might have read the post wrong but I believe the person was saying she/he doubts their salvation. Like they doubt they are saved right now. Which is why i responded the way I did. I was just saying if you are saved you are bold about it and believe it and God.

 

[zoidar]

Thanks! I understand why you answered like you did. I know you wanted to be helpful. I should have posted it somewhere else, not in "advice". I didn't know where to post it.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Thanks! I understand why you answered like you did. I know you wanted to be helpful. I should have posted it somewhere else, not in "advice". I didn't know where to post it.

it's alright man was my bad also should have understood where you were coming from.

 

[Kenny'sID]

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Of course I worry, but try to keep myself in a place where I don't have to. I'm always looking at what I do, always trying to make sure I at least do enough, and have done so ever since I understood what the gospel was all about.

And I've heard all the arguments to that, yet I read the bible too, and find there are, no doubt, stipulations and I try to stay concerned that I have those right, if I don't ...I worry.

What's the point to the scripture on the narrow and wide path, if I don't need to worry about them?

What's the point of Watch therefore, for ye know not what hour the Lord may come? Why watch, why worry, if there is nothing to worry about.

Why the fear and trembling to the verse I opened this post with? That's worry.

So, two choices, "you're saved, don't worry about it" and continue going to a church that teaches that because that's what we want to here, or, stick to the *Biblical* narrow path, along with accepting Christ, and if we aren't doing that...then worry till we feel we are.

 

[aiki]

Now if you are saved and simply want more faith then you follow acts 4

It says they prayed for BOLDNESS and the place was shaken, where they were assembled together, and they were filled with the holy ghost and spoke the word with boldness. They already received it in acts 2 but they needed confidence and boldness so what they did was get another filling. You're not supposed to doubt your salvation.

I agree that a saved person should not doubt their salvation. But, it happens. The answer to such doubt is to obey the "first and great commandment" which is to love God with all of your being. (Matt. 22: 36 - 38).

I would point out, too, that the "companions" of the apostles in Acts 4:23-33 were not asking for more faith, but for increased boldness in the face of growing persecution and the manifestation of God's miraculous power as they went out to share the Gospel. The aim of the request of these believers was not for supernatural events to confirm their faith, but for God to empower their preaching.

But if you are unsure you're saved (your not) then follow acts 2:38 Now in some cases someone just gets the holy ghost and they spoke in tounques or osmething but the devil is trying to make them believe they don't have it. He tried to do that with my friend. His response was like you know what I know what I got and no one can tell me I don't have Jesus inside. And he's been increasing ever since and moving in the holy ghost since.

Speaking in various tongues (languages) was important to the preaching of the Gospel. It was not the way the disciples knew they had been filled with God's Spirit. They knew the Comforter had come because they were compelled to go out and preach the Gospel with great boldness! And their speaking in tongues was not the gobbledy-gook of modern charismatics but discernible languages that those listening could clearly distinguish as their own mother tongue! The point of this manifestation of God's power was not to prove the apostles's spiritual regeneration but to aid their preaching of the Gospel!

Selah.

 

[toLiJC]

Do you worry, or are you sure you are saved?

i don't find any reason to boast about anything of myself, but i can praise the true Saints for being often tormented by the thought that there is still not salvation for everyone - there is no seared conscience in Them

Blessings

 

[Leevo]

Do you worry, or are you sure you are saved?

I voted never. I don't want to say I haven't before because I have as recently as last week. However, something I learned from going through all that was that it isn't about how I feel on the inside. It is about knowing that I am saved through the blood of Jesus and trusting in that no matter how I feel or the circumstances I find myself in.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I agree that a saved person should not doubt their salvation. But, it happens. The answer to such doubt is to obey the "first and great commandment" which is to love God with all of your being. (Matt. 22: 36 - 38).

I would point out, too, that the "companions" of the apostles in Acts 4:23-33 were not asking for more faith, but for increased boldness in the face of growing persecution and the manifestation of God's miraculous power as they went out to share the Gospel. The aim of the request of these believers was not for supernatural events to confirm their faith, but for God to empower their preaching.



Speaking in various tongues (languages) was important to the preaching of the Gospel. It was not the way the disciples knew they had been filled with God's Spirit. They knew the Comforter had come because they were compelled to go out and preach the Gospel with great boldness! And their speaking in tongues was not the gobbledy-gook of modern charismatics but discernible languages that those listening could clearly distinguish as their own mother tongue! The point of this manifestation of God's power was not to prove the apostles's spiritual regeneration but to aid their preaching of the Gospel!

Selah.

I agree with your first observation. But being bold requires faith I would argue. Sure they believed in god greatly but preaching with boldness usually requires some faith. The 2nd one I disagree with though, no where does it say that peter preached in tounques. Additionally tounques was the sign of the Holy Ghost for them so I disagree there as well. They have already preached and cast out demons and stuff even before getting the Holy Ghost, in fact Jesus told them they mainly needed it because thy needed his spirit to be bold and face persecution. People preach fine without the Holy Ghost, sure they aren't led by god but they still sound good. And I agree they were speaking in another language then what they normally speak

 

[aiki]

So, two choices, "you're saved, don't worry about it" and continue going to a church that teaches that because that's what we want to here, or, stick to the *Biblical* narrow path, along with accepting Christ, and if we aren't doing that...then worry till we feel we are.

But this is a false dichotomy. There are more than the two options you describe here. I don't worry about my salvation but that by no means implies I am careless about what Scripture teaches or that I live the life of one on the "broad way." You can be confident of your salvation because you know it was a work of God's grace, mercy and power accomplished in you without need of your own contribution of good deeds. This knowledge in a true believer does not lead to sinful living but to the fulfillment of the first and great commandment (Matt. 22:36-38) out of which all other obedience is supposed to follow. It engenders the joyful obedience of loving children rather than the craven obedience of fearful slaves.

Selah.

 

[aiki]

I agree with your first observation. But being bold requires faith I would argue. Sure they believed in god greatly but preaching with boldness usually requires some faith.

Of course. One does not preach the Gospel if one does not believe it.

The 2nd one I disagree with though, no where does it say that peter preached in tounques.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I didn't say anything about Peter speaking in tongues...

Additionally tounques was the sign of the Holy Ghost for them so I disagree there as well.

Well, you're quite free to disagree. But why, exactly, do you disagree? Can you show me from the text of Acts 2 where the idea that tongues are to be sought as a sign of the Holy Spirit within is taught? A description is not necessarily a prescription. Not recognizing this leads one to the Is-Ought Fallacy. The coming of the Spirit at Pentecost was marked by a rushing mighty wind that was so loud it attracted the attention of all those in the vicinity, and cloven tongues of flame resting on those who were gathered together, so why are these not to be expected as signs of the filling of the Spirit as well? Why is it only tongues that are a sign and not these other things, too? Could it be that of all these signs, tongues is the sign easiest to counterfeit, the one easiest to manufacture with or without the Spirit? Seems so to me...

They have already preached and cast out demons and stuff even before getting the Holy Ghost, in fact Jesus told them they mainly needed it because thy needed his spirit to be bold and face persecution.

Well, no, Jesus told them they needed the Spirit because he was to be their Teacher (Jn. 14:26; 16:13), and Comforter/Helper (Jn. 14:16), and Convicter (Jn. 16:8). Paul wrote that the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit gives spiritual life to the believer and the power to mortify the flesh. (Ro. 8:9-13) This isn't to say that the Holy Spirit doesn't impart boldness in the face of persecution; He does. But this isn't, I think, His primary role.

Selah.

 

[Winken]

The thinking you express here is not Godly: satan is the father of OSAS and other false doctrines.

That is so misleading, so deceptive, so sad, cannot be supported by the interpretation and application of scripture as revealed by the Holy Spirit. How long must Christians wash ashore, lifeless, having been deceived by the floodwaters of those who simply do not comprehend what the Holy Spirit shares with each Spiritually-rebirthed Christian.

 

[Kenny'sID]

But this is a false dichotomy. There are more than the two options you describe here. I don't worry about my salvation but that by no means implies I am careless about what Scripture teaches or that I live the life of one on the "broad way." You can be confident of your salvation because you know it was a work of God's grace, mercy and power accomplished in you without need of your own contribution of good deeds. This knowledge in a true believer does not lead to sinful living but to the fulfillment of the first and great commandment (Matt. 22:36-38) out of which all other obedience is supposed to follow. It engenders the joyful obedience of loving children rather than the craven obedience of fearful slaves.

Selah.

No good deeds needed, as in the Sheep and the Goats? Faith without works is dead.

One can be a true believer and fall from being a true believer...simple. and of course that knowledge doesn't lead to a sinful life, if anything, it's what keeps us from the sinful life, goes without saying, but that hardly means we can't fall into a sinful life, and if we do so, we should worry...that's all I'm saying.

Some say once saved always saved, regardless, and I'm saying, that simply is not true.

Or are you actually telling me there are some that cannot/will not fall into a sinful life, once saved? And please, PLEASE don't tell me if that happens, they were never saved to begin with.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You're not supposed to doubt your salvation.

And those that aren't saved? Or the ones who think they are, but are working on it but haven't quite gotten it right yet?

Seems to me, *doubt* is extremely healthy in this area. We doubt, so we can take care of business and do away with the doubt.

At any rate, can you please show us the scripture that says we shouldn't doubt our salvation? We should keep ourselves in a place where we need not doubt, but doubting is what we do to make sure we are in, and stay in that place.

For instance, there are lists of things we should not do throughout the Bible, or we won't see the Kingdom of God, so if we are doing one or more of those things, you are saying we still should not doubt our salvation? Or should we doubt it, then fix it, and do away with that particular doubt, and keep doing that for the rest of our life to keep ourselves on that straight and narrow we read so much about?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

nope,

while I understand that perfection is required, my perfection, thankfully, is Christ and not my own performance.

the fact that I desire to follow all of God's law and genuinely grieve my shortcomings is a sign of true conversion.

 

[aiki]

No good deeds needed, as in the Sheep and the Goats? Faith without works is dead.

No good deeds are required in order to be saved. Good deeds, however, result from being saved. That was the apostle James' point. Our good deeds give evidence of our salvation but they do not obtain nor sustain it.

One can be a true believer and fall from being a true believer...simple.

I don't believe that because I don't find good ground for such a belief in Scripture. As the apostle John wrote:

1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

and of course that knowledge doesn't lead to a sinful life, if anything, it's what keeps us from the sinful life, goes without saying, but that hardly means we can't fall into a sinful life, and if we do so, we should worry...that's all I'm saying.

What keeps us from a sinful life isn't fear but LOVE. Obedience to God's commands begins with loving God with all your being (Matt. 22:36-38). And as the apostle John makes clear, loving God leaves no room for fear:

1 John 4:18-19
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.

Certainly we saved disciples of Christ should be gravely concerned about falling into a sinful life - but because we want nothing to hinder our loving, joyful fellowship with our Maker, not because we fear His wrath. Fear cannot motivate obedience like love can. God knows this and so He urges us to obedience that originates from love, not fear.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

As Paul makes very clear here, God does not accept obedience from us that is motivated by fear. Fearful obedience is totally unprofitable to the child of God and anathema to the relationship He desires to have with us.

Some say once saved always saved, regardless, and I'm saying, that simply is not true.

Well, of course you're free to hold this view. You haven't offered any good reason for it, however.

Or are you actually telling me there are some that cannot/will not fall into a sinful life, once saved? And please, PLEASE don't tell me if that happens, they were never saved to begin with.

Brother, however advanced in our faith we think ourselves to be, however wonderfully righteous we may think we are, compared to the holy perfection of God we remain wicked, sinful creatures. From beginning to end, the Christian life is a process of God revealing to us those areas of sin to which we have been entirely blind that we might by His grace overcome them. Every believer always lives a sinful life, no matter who it is. Consequently, the only way any of us is ever acceptable to God is if the perfect righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. It is on the basis of his perfect purity, holiness, and righteousness in which we are clothed at the moment of our conversion that we gain acceptance with our holy Maker. And this is the only basis upon which that acceptance can be maintained. No matter how righteous we work to make ourselves, no matter how many good deeds we do, there is always undiscovered sin in us, sin to which we are utterly blind, fouling our efforts. Thus, we cannot make the character of our lives the ground from which we maintain our salvation. It was impossible for us to be saved on such grounds and it is impossible for us to keep saved on such grounds. No, good works simply won't do. The only basis for our salvation past and present is Christ himself.

Selah.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Of course. One does not preach the Gospel if one does not believe it.



Sorry, I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I didn't say anything about Peter speaking in tongues...



Well, you're quite free to disagree. But why, exactly, do you disagree? Can you show me from the text of Acts 2 where the idea that tongues are to be sought as a sign of the Holy Spirit within is taught? A description is not necessarily a prescription. Not recognizing this leads one to the Is-Ought Fallacy. The coming of the Spirit at Pentecost was marked by a rushing mighty wind that was so loud it attracted the attention of all those in the vicinity, and cloven tongues of flame resting on those who were gathered together, so why are these not to be expected as signs of the filling of the Spirit as well? Why is it only tongues that are a sign and not these other things, too? Could it be that of all these signs, tongues is the sign easiest to counterfeit, the one easiest to manufacture with or without the Spirit? Seems so to me...



Well, no, Jesus told them they needed the Spirit because he was to be their Teacher (Jn. 14:26; 16:13), and Comforter/Helper (Jn. 14:16), and Convicter (Jn. 16:8). Paul wrote that the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit gives spiritual life to the believer and the power to mortify the flesh. (Ro. 8:9-13) This isn't to say that the Holy Spirit doesn't impart boldness in the face of persecution; He does. But this isn't, I think, His primary role.

Selah.

Can you show me from the text of Acts 2 where the idea that tongues are to be sought as a sign of the Holy Spirit within is taught?


My response: I simply said based off acts 2 it's a sign of getting the holy ghost. Also yes tounques is the easiest thing to counterfeit just like the bible is also. I mean it was utilized to successfully justify slavery. And a quoran alternative thing exist. There is a reason Paul speaks against Earth tounques, to suggest that because it's easy to do something wrongly that it's not true is eh. The devil works like that, he is antichrist he tends to use gods methods but in a evil way. When God decided to fill people with the holy ghost, the devil decided to fill people with demons hint demon possession in the new.

Also the bible isn't presented in the powerpoint from me and you enjoy today, a lot of times there are examples/stories and since they spoke in an unknown tounque then logically that's a sign. I agree with what Luke wrote down I mean. However, the bible does say this....


Mark 16:17-18King James Version (KJV) (look at new tounques)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.



Well, no, Jesus told them they needed the Spirit because he was to be their Teacher (Jn. 14:26; 16:13), and Comforter/Helper (Jn. 14:16),


My Response: That is why we need the holy ghost and others but the main reason they received it was for a comforter when he left and to face persecution. I admit I narrowed it down to much, the holy ghost now isn't just to face trials but to help us get to heaven and be able to have joy, peace, integrity, things we can't have without it.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

And those that aren't saved? Or the ones who think they are, but are working on it but haven't quite gotten it right yet?

Seems to me, *doubt* is extremely healthy in this area. We doubt, so we can take care of business and do away with the doubt.

At any rate, can you please show us the scripture that says we shouldn't doubt our salvation? We should keep ourselves in a place where we need not doubt, but doubting is what we do to make sure we are in, and stay in that place.

For instance, there are lists of things we should not do throughout the Bible, or we won't see the Kingdom of God, so if we are doing one or more of those things, you are saying we still should not doubt our salvation? Or should we doubt it, then fix it, and do away with that particular doubt, and keep doing that for the rest of our life to keep ourselves on that straight and narrow we read so much about?

Seems to me, *doubt* is extremely healthy in this area. We doubt, so we can take care of business and do away with the doubt.

My Response: what...???

At any rate, can you please show us the scripture that says we shouldn't doubt our salvation?

My Response:
James 1:6

“But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.” KJV

Matthew 21:21
Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.


Very familiar verses the top one more so for myself I guess, one of the first I memorized after receiving the holy ghost. Now sure these aren't specifically referring to salvation but in order for you to ask for something or speak something without doubt logically you can't question if you're saved or not.

I can't cast out a demon if I am not even sure i'm not a sinner myself and the bible says thou that committeth sin is of teh devil after all. Which is why we can't doubt salvation... In order for you to do anything in the kingdom of God you have to be sure you are saved becuase only saved individuals can save others. Demons will only flee from sure/saved/confident individuals. Not people who doubt having the holy ghost and simply don't have it.





For instance, there are lists of things we should not do throughout the Bible, or we won't see the Kingdom of God, so if we are doing one or more of those things, you are saying we still should not doubt our salvation? Or should we doubt it, then fix it, and do away with that particular doubt, and keep doing that for the rest of our life to keep ourselves on that straight and narrow we read so much about?

My Response: I guess my question for you is how do you define salvation. Because based off this question you define it based off works essentially. I could be wrong but yeah.



Now look there is a differences between daily seeking to maintain salvation to ensure you don't lose the holy ghost vs. not sure if you have it. And I feel this needs clarification.

 

[TonyT316]

Yes, I think there would be something wrong if I didn't.