do you want obama to succeed?

[JustOneWay]

i agree that the banks have some fault, but what ever happened to personal responsibility? nobody twisted their arm to make them buy a house they knew they couldn't afford. if you can't afford it today, what really makes you think you can afford it tomorrow?

Interesting.

I am intrigued by most people's belief that "government" or "banks" (in this instance) are a collective of people which constitutes an entity for which responsibility is diminished, instead of seeing these organizations as a collection of individuals who also have have individual responsibility.

You criticize the individual homeowner for buying a house they knew they couldn't afford. How do you know this? If you look at the other side of this equation, you find a "bank" individual telling these potential homeowners that they can afford that home because they will tweak the figures to make it appear as if they can afford the house....and we are not worried about the collateral you dont have....

Potential homeowners were told that they could afford their houses. Their arms were not twisted, they were given the loans by individual loan officers.

Why don't we hold individual loan officers personally responsible for giving loans to people they knew could not afford the loan?

 

[ScottBot]

Why don't we hold individual loan officers personally responsible for giving loans to people they knew could not afford the loan?

Actually, that's not a bad idea.

 

[chaz345]

To (re)answer the original question, I want the country to succeed and I think that much of Obama's agenda is exactly 180 degrees the wrong direction.

 

[chaz345]

To think that (boogey man) "Socialism" is going to express itself and have the same effect on US society is presumptuous to say the least.

Which is exactly why I think that patterning our healthcare system like theirs is a bad idea. But to me it seems that most of the cheerleaders for that idea are pretty quick to say "look at how well it works in Europe(or Canada, or wherever).

 

[XTE]

Which is exactly why I think that patterning our healthcare system like theirs is a bad idea. But to me it seems that most of the cheerleaders for that idea are pretty quick to say "look at how well it works in Europe(or Canada, or wherever).

Because it's presumptuous, it's a bad idea? That isn't a reason bro.

 

[KarateCowboy]

The Soviet Union, with all its regulations and commands, gulags and reeducation, could not stimulate its economy enough to make it grow. What brand of idiocy makes us think that a so-called 'stimulus bill' could do what complete control of the economy could not? The stimulus bill will fail to do what they claim, and it can only stand to hurt. Crafting a strong economy out of government invention has all the Hope and Change of expecting a ROI from giving $30 million to swamp mice. At this point in time the best thing the Federal Government can do to help is ease up on taxes, leave us alone, and focus on balancing its own pocket book.

 

[XTE]

The Soviet Union, with all its regulations and commands, gulags and reeducation, could not stimulate its economy enough to make it grow. What brand of idiocy makes us think that a so-called 'stimulus bill' could do what complete control of the economy could not? The stimulus bill will fail to do what they claim, and it can only stand to hurt. Crafting a strong economy out of government invention has all the Hope and Change of expecting a ROI from giving $30 million to swamp mice. At this point in time the best thing the Federal Government can do to help is ease up on taxes, leave us alone, and focus on balancing its own pocket book.

Anything that Karate doesn't agree with is directly called a "brand of idiocy" right here. Don't even argue with this guy. He's gonna yell taxes cuts until he realizes WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE GOVERNMENT....

 

[KarateCowboy]

Anything that Karate doesn't agree with is directly called a "brand of idiocy" right here. Don't even argue with this guy. He's gonna yell taxes cuts until he realizes WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE GOVERNMENT....

First it is not true that I call anything I disagree with idiocy because I disagree that Coke is tastier than Pepsi, but I do not think that is idiocy.

Second it is false to say that we are the government. You do not have the facts straight. In a democracy the majority's will is law, but this is a republic, not a democracy, and so we have elected officials to govern for us.

 

[XTE]

First it is not true that I call anything I disagree with idiocy because I disagree that Coke is tastier than Pepsi, but I do not think that is idiocy.

Second it is false to say that we are the government. You do not have the facts straight. In a democracy the majority's will is law, but this is a republic, not a democracy, and so we have elected officials to govern for us.

Oh, I would encourage everyone to read what you wrote in the quote from you above again. It's plain to see.

Secondly, we are a mixture of government types. If you truly call us any single type, you don't understand what you are really talking about. Government TYPE falls on a scale and we can be somewhere in between a Republic and a Democracy. To that, you've proven people still don't know what Democracy means:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

"Democracy is a form of government in which power is held directly or indirectly by citizens under a free electoral system."

DONE!

 

[KarateCowboy]

Oh, I would encourage everyone to read what you wrote in the quote from you above again. It's plain to see.

Secondly, we are a mixture of government types. If you truly call us any single type, you don't understand what you are really talking about. Government TYPE falls on a scale and we can be somewhere in between a Republic and a Democracy. To that, you've proven people still don't know what Democracy means:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

"Democracy is a form of government in which power is held directly or indirectly by citizens under a free electoral system."

DONE!

Well, Wikipedia is epic fail on that one.

When Franklin left the Constitutional Convention a woman asked him "What type of government have you given us, sir", and he answered "A Republic, madame --if you can keep it".

"We are now forming a Republican form of government. Real Liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy, we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of dictatorship."
--Alexander Hamilton

"Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos."
-- John Marshall, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court


And it's a moot point because while we can sit here and argue over whether it is a "republic", or a "demoracy", or a "republican democracy" etcetera etcetera, it won't change the fact that we are not the government because neither you nor I have legislative, judicial, or executive authority.

And even all that is a moot point, because when it came to the bailout last year, roughly 90% of the public was against it and it still passed; then again with the stimulus fraud.

My original point stands. The fraudulent stimulus bill will fail to do what they claim.

 

[ahiggs]

Potential homeowners were told that they could afford their houses. Their arms were not twisted, they were given the loans by individual loan officers.

Why don't we hold individual loan officers personally responsible for giving loans to people they knew could not afford the loan?

i don't disagree at all. i am just not saying that it is not exclusively the fault of the banks. i am just saying that it dosen't take much common sence to see if i make $30,000 and i am buying a home worth $600,000 that i can't afford it

 

[ke1985]

What if they don't, will you then start voting democrat. (If you already do, I apologize).

*

Not sure

 

[Wyzaard]

He will succeed in enacting socialism and destroying the country.

Vacuous hyperbole, as per usual.

 

[Wyzaard]

to you want obama to succeed and lead us down a road with government in control of health care, the bank and insurance industries as well as the auto industry...or do you want him to fail and let some of these business fail with him?

Why exactly would I want the country to slide into ruin, rather than bring needed jobs and services to the people?

<staff edit>

 

[ahiggs]

Vacuous hyperbole, as per usual.

i am not sure he can destroy the country...we are bigger than just one person even if it is the president, but he is leading us down a very strait and fast path to socialism

 

[ahiggs]

Why exactly would I want the country to slide into ruin, rather than bring needed jobs and services to the people?

Libertarians and their Mad-Max fantasies...

by the way we are heading the government will control three of the biggest industries in the country. health care, auto industry, and insurance. govt controled economy that is socialism. we are not far from it now, if not there already

 

[Wyzaard]

... but he is leading us down a very strait and fast path to socialism

No, that would be something like storming the winter palace. What we have with the Obama administration is classic liberal fixes, using the public sector to ameliorate the innate viciousness of the private sector.

 

[Wyzaard]

by the way we are heading the government will control three of the biggest industries in the country. health care,

Well, many of us aren't getting any... and those of us who are are being bled dry by private insurance rackets and big pharma.

auto industry,

The gas-powered car needs to die, and the best way to do that is for us to publicly push it into obsolescence; capitalists will not give up a STATIC profit if they can help it.

and insurance.

Just give us the universal health care we need and deserve, and this wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

 

[romanov]

Just give us the universal health care we need and deserve, and this wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

What right do I have to one second of your life?

 

[Wyzaard]

What right do I have to one second of your life?

In a good society, we would have a mutual obligation to one another to generally protect each other's health and safety; we do that by supporting public institutions that serve the public good and trust.