Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

Biblicist · Nov 20, 2015

jiminpa said:
A few years ago more people in Philadelphia "voted" for a candidate for governor than were registered in Philadelphia to vote. House pets, fictional characters and dead people are "voting." So how legal are the elections?

That's a good point, where I believe that George Bush's election result in Florida years back has also been put to question; which means that if this character had not been placed in power, then the chaos that he and his mililary generals and their billionaire friends have created in the Middle East could have been overted. But, what are the legal means to ensure that these things do not happen and how are these people to be appropriatedly punished.

jiminpa · Nov 20, 2015

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
Maybe if more of you voted for your representatives in Washington you'd have more faith in them...

Yeah, that'll help. You do realize that the entire balance of the last U.S. presidential election hinged on one state in which enough dead people voted to entirely change the whole outcome. The voting machines are programmed to do no one knows what, by no one knows who, and I am supposed to trust that process? I don't go to ammyy.com when "microsoft" calls to fix my PC either.

redleghunter · Nov 20, 2015

jiminpa said:
So in this post-modern, criminal friendly version of Christianity who stands between the killer and the innocent?

Not to mention a lot of the posters advocating only police and criminals have guns, have their freedom because the US protected them through treaties over the past 60 years.

SuperDuck · Nov 20, 2015

rubyinprogress said:
Since guns did not exist when Jesus walked the earth, we would have to extrapolate. Did Jesus condone his follows owning a lethal weapon? The answer is YES. Swords were clearly weapons. They don't serve another purpose. In Luke 22 Jesus encouraged his follows to purchase swords.
35 Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered.
36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

There are also countless examples in the Old Testament of God condoning warfare, self-defense, and defense of one's family. I think this is one of those issues that falls under Ecclesiastes 3. There is a time to kill and a time to heal. I'm not advocating senseless violence, but the context of Jesus telling the disciples to purchase swords and then reprimanding Peter for cutting off the high priest's servant's ear seems to indicate that he intended the swords to be for self defense or for a deterrent, not for a pre-preemptive attack.

This is what I was going to say. Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 says a lot. "A time for peace, a time for war", "A time to kill, a time to heal", etc.

Does anyone really believe that Jesus would have told the Jews to disarm themselves and be vulnerable to their enemies? That would be suicidal against their many enemies, so, no, Jesus wouldn't have told them that.

Defending ones self, family, friends, innocent strangers, those who are unable to defend themselves, your property, your country, etc, etc are all valid reasons to use a weapon.

I can't attest to it, because I'd need to study the verse more, but my take on "live by the sword, die by the sword" is that if you use violence as a solution to every problem you encounter, eventually it will come back to bite you. Use your best resource, God, before taking violent action. Ask the Lord for wisdom. Try to make peace with others by "pouring coals over their head" in order to melt their icy hearts. Try peaceful methods first and only use violence as a last resort.

That being said, our country is at war and we're being attacked on our own soil, so I'd be prepared, just in case, and pray that you never have to use force.

Aelred of Rievaulx · Nov 20, 2015

jiminpa said:
Yeah, that'll help. You do realize that the entire balance of the last U.S. presidential election hinged on one state in which enough dead people voted to entirely change the whole outcome. The voting machines are programmed to do no one knows what, by no one knows who, and I am supposed to trust that process? I don't go to ammyy.com when "microsoft" calls to fix my PC either.

Wow... Conspiracy theories are everywhere in the US... I guess it only makes sense that conspiracy theorists would buy into the whole "guns!" and "freedoms!" language...

Biblicist · Nov 20, 2015

camphigrades said:
. . . I assure you, we don't go around shooting or threatening people with them (lol),

From what I can tell, about the only gun users who go around shooting people for fun are the employees of the various US police forces; where these chappies are not exactly a great picture for gun ownership.

jiminpa · Nov 20, 2015

Biblicist said:
That's a good point, where I believe that George Bush's election result in Florida years back has also been put to question; which means that if this character had not been placed in power, then the chaos that he and his mililary generals and their billionaire friends have created in the Middle East could have been overted. But, what are the legal means to ensure that these things do not happen and how are these people to be appropriatedly punished.

The controversy with the 2000 presidential election was the Al Gore lost and was going to contest the election and cry and whine and hold his breath until he passed out, until Florida certified him the winner. They counted and recounted and recounted and recounted again, changing the rules to favor Gore more and more each time and he never even got close, and finally the board of elections went had to go to court to stop the nonsense and start the transition process. But that was all part of the plan anyway, because that was the excuse to get the electronic voting machines that the government promises aren't rigged, but none of us can have a single look at the workings of.

Biblicist · Nov 20, 2015

jiminpa said:
Yeah, that'll help. You do realize that the entire balance of the last U.S. presidential election hinged on one state in which enough dead people voted to entirely change the whole outcome. The voting machines are programmed to do no one knows what, by no one knows who, and I am supposed to trust that process? I don't go to ammyy.com when "microsoft" calls to fix my PC either.

If by "voting machines" you mean with these new electronic polling centres, where they have replaced paper with the more "reliable" electronic means, then I can fully understand why people have less and less confidence with the voting process as these things could undoubtedly be rigged.

jiminpa · Nov 20, 2015

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
Wow... Conspiracy theories are everywhere in the US... I guess it only makes sense that conspiracy theorists would buy into the whole "guns!" and "freedoms!" language...

It's only a theory if it hasn't been proven, and it's no theory.

Biblicist · Nov 20, 2015

jiminpa said:
The controversy with the 2000 presidential election was the Al Gore lost and was going to contest the election and cry and whine and hold his breath until he passed out, until Florida certified him the winner. They counted and recounted and recounted and recounted again, changing the rules to favor Gore more and more each time and he never even got close, and finally the board of elections went had to go to court to stop the nonsense and start the transition process. But that was all part of the plan anyway, because that was the excuse to get the electronic voting machines that the government promises aren't rigged, but none of us can have a single look at the workings of.

That's right, I could recall that it was a strange process and I had forgotten that it was about Gore (not Bush); what an odd process that was, where it even received a lot of mainstream media coverage over here in Australia.

redleghunter · Nov 20, 2015

Biblicist said:
In case you are not aware, medical and hospital treatment is not free in the USA, they both involve a lot of fees and charges.

Not accurate. If someone cannot afford health care they qualify for state Medicaid. It is based on the income poverty level. Before Obamacare there were people who could afford healthcare but elected not to. They get sick and have to pay out of pocket. For cancer that can bankrupt a family. You can't buy car insurance after wrecking your car. With Obamacare everyone must purchase health insurance. Much like how car insurance works other than taking public transportation

The poor still get government coverage. Always have.

I have seen the most giving folks in the world in Americans. Especially churches run fund raisers for those who cannot afford certain procedures.

jiminpa · Nov 20, 2015

Biblicist said:
If by "voting machines" you mean with these new electronic polling centres, where they have replaced paper with the more "reliable" electronic means, then I can fully understand why people have less and less confidence with the voting process as these things could undoubtedly be rigged.

Yes, I mean they are completely digital. For all any of us little people know, all we do when we make a selection is initiate a graphic. Then we eject a black box that we assume is a memory component to be tallied and take it to some local volunteer, usually who isn't computer savvy enough to type a URL into a web browser without assistance from her grandchild, (I'm not exaggerating), and trust on completely blind faith that we have actually done something.

redleghunter · Nov 20, 2015

Biblicist said:
As I mentioned earlier, it can be hard for an Australian to understand the gun question in the USA as our two societies are quite different. To put things into some sort of balance, as you are against private gun ownership (which is neither a bad or a good thing), if you noticed that a neighbour's home was being broken into while they were away, would you call '000' knowing that an armed group of police Officers would be responding where the perpetrator could be possibly shot? If the thief was shot, then this would mean that you are almost as complicit in the deed as the Officer who could possiby by forced to shoot the (armed?) thief; could it maybe be better to allow the thief to get away with a few replacable possessions than risk seeing him get shot, afterall , he could also be a dad? But then again, unbeknown to you, the thief who thought that he was entering into an unoccupied home might all of a sudden come across one of the family members where the thief might even shoot someone's wife or child.

We are not dealing with pacifism in some of these posts but anarchism.

Biblicist · Nov 20, 2015

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
Wow... Conspiracy theories are everywhere in the US... I guess it only makes sense that conspiracy theorists would buy into the whole "guns!" and "freedoms!" language...

As an Australian, along with many others who I have met over the years (both Christian and non-Christian), I used to think that Americans simply enjoyed any chance that they could to kill one another, but after our holiday in the US where I met a gun owner who cleared up a number of my misconceptions, along with a healthy dose of reading when we came back; I began to understand that the gun issue in the US is not as simple as we would like to make out.

Here in Australia, we enjoy far more freedoms than do our counterparts in the US and we have always been able to resolve our differences through discussion and by the vote. This is something that the US has never really been able to live by, where insurrection seems to have been the modus-operandi so to speak, so it is no wonder that private gun ownership in the US is a valuable tool to maintain not only peace and order but to protect their families as well.

Even though I could probably open carry a weapon in the US, I would never want to see us relax our gun laws as we have no need for private gun ownership, unless they are to be used on a farm.

Aelred of Rievaulx · Nov 20, 2015

Biblicist said:
As an Australian, along with many others who I have met over the years (both Christian and non-Christian), I used to think that Americans simply enjoyed any chance that they could to kill one another, but after our holiday in the US where I met a gun owner who cleared up a number of my misconceptions, along with a healthy dose of reading when we came back; I began to understand that the gun issue in the US is not as simple as we would like to make out.

Here in Australia, we enjoy far more freedoms than do our counterparts in the US and we have always been able to resolve our differences through discussion and by the vote. This is something that the US has never really been able to live by, where insurrection seems to have been the modus-operandi so to speak, so it is no wonder that private gun ownership is a valuable tool to maintain not only peace and order but to protect their families as well.

I laughed when one of the reasons given to invade Iraq was giving people democracy while such a tiny fraction of American people actually voted in their own country...

Biblicist · Nov 20, 2015

redleghunter said:
We are not dealing with pacifism in some of these posts but anarchism.

Yes, there are many so-called patriots out there who proudly proclaim their loyalty to the American ideal, but given the chance these phonies are more than prepared to use the gun to silence their opponents. A good example of this is with the NARzie Rick Joyner who in 2013 called for an armed overthrow of the US government - a real nice loyal chappie he is not:

Rick Joyner link link

"I believe our only hope is a military takeover, martial law and that the crucial, most crucial element of that is who the marshal is going to be. I believe there are noble leaders in our military that love the republic and love everything we stand for, and they could seize the government. I’m not advocating this, I’m just telling you what could happen. They could seize it and help restore the foundations, restore the Constitution".

redleghunter · Nov 20, 2015

Biblicist said:
Is this a serious question or are you maybe uncertain about what the word 'fees' mean?

As I stated before....If someone has health insurance the most they will pay for a chemotherapy treatment is $12-$50 dollars. That's a copay. If someone has a job they can afford that. I know this from experience.

Also With the Affordable Healthcare Act (Obamacare) everyone MUST have insurance now. If one is below the poverty level, they are under full coverage with State Medicaid.

The stories you heard of people not being able to afford expensive medical procedures was in the past. They rolled the dice and did not buy insurance. It is like if I bought a car did not buy car insurance and crashed my car. I can't call State Farm at the scene of the accident and expect them to replace my car.

I am a conservative and am now glad everyone must purchase healthcare. That is the only part of the new law I supported. Because people who had insurance ended up paying for irresponsible people who rolled the dice and came up snake eyes.

Biblicist · Nov 20, 2015

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
I laughed when one of the reasons given to invade Iraq was giving people democracy while such a tiny fraction of American people actually voted in their own country...

Oh well . . . at least the Russian Federation has now intervened into the Syrian situation where, unlike their US counterparts who seem to be supporting and arming Islamic-State so as to remove the Assad Government, the Russians seem to be doing a good job with destroying Islamic-State forces and infrastructure.

jiminpa · Nov 20, 2015

Biblicist said:
As an Australian, along with many others who I have met over the years (both Christian and non-Christian), I used to think that Americans simply enjoyed any chance that they could to kill one another, but after our holiday in the US where I met a gun owner who cleared up a number of my misconceptions, along with a healthy dose of reading when we came back; I began to understand that the gun issue in the US is not as simple as we would like to make out.

Here in Australia, we enjoy far more freedoms than do our counterparts in the US and we have always been able to resolve our differences through discussion and by the vote. This is something that the US has never really been able to live by, where insurrection seems to have been the modus-operandi so to speak, so it is no wonder that private gun ownership in the US is a valuable tool to maintain not only peace and order but to protect their families as well.

Even though I could probably open carry a weapon in the US, I would never want to see us relax our gun laws as we have no need for private gun ownership, unless they are to be used on a farm.

No, a lot of us don't trust your government either. We look at human nature since the fall of man and see that once power is centralized abuse is inevitable and the only question is how long it will take. Many of us, (not all), see any amount of socialism as abdicating responsibility of your own life just so that when it all goes down the sewer you can at least claim that you didn't have any control over it, so it couldn't have been your fault. We consider that slothfulness and just an excuse.

jiminpa · Nov 20, 2015

jiminpa said:
No, a lot of us don't trust your government either. We look at human nature since the fall of man and see that once power is centralized abuse is inevitable and the only question is how long it will take. Many of us, (not all), see any amount of socialism as abdicating responsibility of your own life just so that when it all goes down the sewer you can at least claim that you didn't have any control over it, so it couldn't have been your fault. We consider that slothfulness and just an excuse.

But your government is your problem and none of our business if you are content to let them do everything for you in exchange for you losing your ability to actually oppose them when they decide it's time to pay up for all they have so "graciously" done for you, unless they decide to make it our business.

Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

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