Do you really think He wants this?

[Isilwen]

Ask any child how they took it when they found out Santa wasn't real.

I am not so old at 46 years old that I don't remember when I found out Santa wasn't real. I didn't feel lied to at all. To me, it was just a part of Christmas and a way that my mom and grandparents made it fun during the season. My kids as they have outgrown Santa have felt the same way.

 

[tampasteve]

The basis of the holiday is rooted in reality, several historical events.

1. The birth of Christ
2. St. Nicholas

As to the first, it is true that some pagan elements have crept in. But that can be levied against every Christian and Jewish holiday, so it does not hold much water on closer inspection. The fact is that people had cultural experiences and traditions that they kept doing after they converted or adapted a holiday to the new religion that their rulers imposed upon them.

The fact is that Christ was born, and we celebrate that on Christmas. If we want to adamantly say it was not on Christmas, well, it was not. It was far more likely closer to Sukkot, in the fall. But we don't know the exact date anyways, so celebrating it at the end of December should not really be an issue. Did the date subsume a previous pagan holiday? Maybe, but that holiday means nothing at this point and all that really matters is the true King that we celebrate on that date.

As to the second, Santa Clause is based on the historical St. Nicholas of Asia Minor. The change into "Santa Clause" can be either ignored by Christians or a minor part of the Christmas story. The story can be used to teach good, as outlined above by other members. As to the name being similar to "Satan", that is silly - although I have heard that before. It does not work that way in other languages, that is a oddity of English.

As Christians we can all make our own choices, and should not judge other's for theirs. Saying "I am not judging, but He will" is the same thing. We as a society do over commercialize and focus too much on "Santa" and the commercial aspects, but they are not inherently evil. As Christians we would do well to focus on the actual reason for the holiday, celebrate that, and minimize Santa. But to demonize other people for those choices also betrays the love of Christ.

 

[Jaxxi]

The Nativity of Our Lord is not a "secular" holiday. The secular world has adopted it and made its own modifications that we aren't obliged to follow, but it's our holy day or holiday.

That is the problem entirely. No it is not! It is the Lord's holiday! It is a celebration of His birth! Nothing is ours when it is holy because we are not worthy of it. Not one person on here has answered the question. Why is it so hard to answer?

 

[tampasteve]

Ask any child how they took it when they found out Santa wasn't real. They will tell you they were lied to. Period. But that is a nice back peddle.

Not really. I have spoken to quite a few and by the point the figure it out they are not traumatized. As the adults it is up to how we decide to tell them. But I have not really talked to anyone that was traumatized into believing that God was a lie too.

As a friend posted today (this is not new):
ATTENTION TO ALL PARENTS WHO NEED TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT SANTA

Son: "Dad, I think I'm old enough now. Is there a Santa Claus?."
Dad: "Ok, I agree that your old enough. But before I tell you, I have a question for you. You see, the “truth” is a dangerous gift. Once you know something, you can't unknow it. Once you know the truth about Santa Claus, you will never again understand and relate to him as you do now. So my question is: Are you sure you want to know?"
Brief pause...
Son: "Yes, I want to know"
Dad: "Ok, I'll tell you: Yes there is a Santa Claus"
Son: "Really?"
Dad: Yes, really, but he's not an old man with a beard in a red suit. That's just what we tell kids. You see, kids are too young to understand the true nature of Santa Claus, so we explain it to them in a way that they can understand. The truth about Santa Claus is that he's not a person at all; he's an idea. Think of all those presents Santa gave you over the years. I actually bought those myself. I watched you open them. And did it bother me that you didn't thank me? Of course not! In fact it gave me great pleasure. You see, Santa Claus is THE IDEA OF GIVING FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING, without thought of thanks or acknowledgement.
When I saw that woman collapse on the subway last week and called for help, I knew that she'd never know that it was me that summoned the ambulance. I was being Santa Claus when I did that."
Son: "Oh."
Dad: "So now that you know, you're part of it. You have to be Santa Claus too now. That means you can never tell a young kid the secret, and you have to help us select Santa presents for them, and most important, you have to look for opportunities to help people. Got it?"


Now, that is a purely secular point of view, but I think it gets the point across. There is a way that we, as adults, can manage the situation in a good way.

 

[Elliewaves]

That is a fair answer. You don't see the danger in sinning to children on a holy day dedicated to the Lord? It won't affect me in any way if others do this. Could it convict them? Shouldn't we think about this a little more rather than follow traditions blindly?

Eh I think the "Santa is satan and there is no imbetween" people are nutters, but if it floats your boat whatever. It it convicts you, don't do it. If it grieves you that others do it, then pray for them or bring up tactful conversation with them. Accusing them of being liars and in league with the devil right out of the gate probably won't win any over to your viewpoint. I don't have kids so I don't care what people do with their own kids. They must do what they feel is best and that's part of the responsibility of being a parent. they can answer to God as we all must do. You can't convict them; only the HS can. So if you are convinced they are wrong and are leading their children's immortal souls astray, then pray for them and discuss it with other parents in a tactful way.

 

[Isilwen]

Not one person on here has answered the question. Why is it so hard to answer?

You mean it hasn't been answered to your satisfaction. That doesn't mean it hasn't been answered or been answered correctly.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Do you really think Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior wants us celebrating a day in His honor by giving worldly goods and lying through our teeth to our children? They think Santa is real, and they hear its Jesus Birthday- then they find out Santa is NOT real and subconsciously assume Jesus isn't real either. Satan and Santa look a lot a like on paper- Don't you think Jesus would much rather have your personal gift of holiness? A lie is a lie- isn't this wrong? When do we stop this dangerous tradition of lying on Christmas?

In my household growing up we celebrated Christmas and my folks never played up the santa thing, in fact our presents were always accurately labelled to who they were going to and to who they were from so I always new they came from my parents etc. So no I do not see the Santa tradition as being a reason to scrap Christmas. Instead we should celebrate the real saint Nicholas bishop of Myra for the fine ministry he did to orphans and the poor.

But this Holiday has a lot of good Christian themes about it. I wrote this piece a few years back.


Contemplating the Coming of the Magi

Sometimes we Christians like to divide the World into neat little categories. We like to have “believer" and "unbeliever", "Christian" and "non-Christian" and so forth Sometimes however real life doesn’t conform to such simplistic thinking. Because in the Gospels for example "Those outside Israel" sometimes could be "Close to the Kingdom of God", while those that were of natural Israel and devoutly practiced the old religion had "hearts that are far from God".

A good example of that is the coming of the Magi in the gospels. Those folks were mostly likely Zoroastrians from the region of Nineveh, (if we take the testimony of later Church historians seriously). These people had a close connection to the Jews during the first time of Exile. Some people think of Zoroastrians as "pagans" but they really have more in common with Monotheists in their beliefs than the other people of the pagan world. When we think about them we should realize that in the early Scriptures not all the people of God came directly from Abraham's line. Every so often we encounter someone like Melchizedek or Job. Even Balam the prophet, before he became corrupt was seen as being a "prophet of God".

When we contemplate the Magi, we should not forget that Abraham himself came from their region a few millennia previously. In fact, the name Hebrew is said to derive from this culture. It comes from an ancient Akkadian or Proto-Aramaic word meaning “They that dwell beyond the River” (Euphrates).

We therefore should not be surprised why the events recorded in the Book of Jonah take place. We have sayings “what comes around goes around”. And that certainly is true with the Kingdom of God itself. Or as scripture says, in Ecclesiastes 11: 11 “Cast your bread upon the waters, for you will find it after many days.”

God who stands beyond Time itself knows all things. Besides being the place where the ancient Hebrews came from, he also knew it as a place that held great future promise for Christianity.

Isaiah 19: 23In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrians will come into Egypt and the Egyptians into Assyria, and the Egyptians will worship with the Assyrians.

This is one of those prophesies that already has been at least partially fulfilled. For the Coptic Christians and Syriac Orthodox Christians have been worshiping Christ and been in Communion with each other for nearly two millennia.

It was the place that saint Thaddeus (aka Jude the apostle) later missionized and turned into an Apostolic See that stretched forth all the way to India and China, which lasted until the late middle ages and continues today (although greatly diminished). Besides that, this region has been the home of great saints like Isaac of Nineveh (Saint Isaac the Syrian).

It is of course this same region and the Christians that dwell therein that very much need our prayers. For they struggle everyday against persecution and genocide by Islamic Fundamentalist groups like ISIS.

 

[Jaxxi]

In my household growing up we celebrated Christmas and my folks never played up the santa thing, in fact our presents were always accurately labelled to who they were going to and to who they were from so I always new they came from my parents etc. So no I do not see the Santa Holiday as being a reason to scrap Christmas. Instead we should celebrate the real saint Nicholas bishop of Myra for the fine ministry he did to orphans and the poor.

But this Holiday has a lot of good Christian themes about it. I wrote this piece a few years back.


Contemplating the Coming of the Magi

Sometimes we Christians like to divide the World into neat little categories. We like to have “believer" and "unbeliever", "Christian" and "non-Christian" and so forth Sometimes however real life doesn’t conform to such simplistic thinking. Because in the Gospels for example "Those outside Israel" sometimes could be "Close to the Kingdom of God", while those that were of natural Israel and devoutly practiced the old religion had "hearts that are far from God".

A good example of that is the coming of the Magi in the gospels. Those folks were mostly likely Zoroastrians from the region of Nineveh, (if we take the testimony of later Church historians seriously). These people had a close connection to the Jews during the first time of Exile. Some people think of Zoroastrians as "pagans" but they really have more in common with Monotheists in their beliefs than the other people of the pagan world. When we think about them we should realize that in the early Scriptures not all the people of God came directly from Abraham's line. Every so often we encounter someone like Melchizedek or Job. Even Balam the prophet, before he became corrupt was seen as being a "prophet of God".

When we contemplate the Magi, we should not forget that Abraham himself came from their region a few millennia previously. In fact, the name Hebrew is said to derive from this culture. It comes from an ancient Akkadian or Proto-Aramaic word meaning “They that dwell beyond the River” (Euphrates).

We therefore should not be surprised why the events recorded in the Book of Jonah take place. We have sayings “what comes around goes around”. And that certainly is true with the Kingdom of God itself. Or as scripture says, in Ecclesiastes 11: 11 “Cast your bread upon the waters, for you will find it after many days.”

God who stands beyond Time itself knows all things. Besides being the place where the ancient Hebrews came from, he also knew it as a place that held great future promise for Christianity.

Isaiah 19: 23In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrians will come into Egypt and the Egyptians into Assyria, and the Egyptians will worship with the Assyrians. This is one of those prophesies that already has been at least partially fulfilled. For the Coptic Christians and Syriac Orthodox Christians have been worshiping Christ and been in Communion with each other for nearly two millennia.

It was the place that saint Thaddeus (aka Jude the apostle) later missionized and turned into an Apostolic See that stretched forth all the way to India and China, which lasted until the late middle ages and continues today (although greatly diminished). Besides that, this region has been the home of great saints like Isaac of Nineveh (Saint Isaac the Syrian).

It is of course this same region and the Christians that dwell therein that very much need our prayers. For they struggle everyday against persecution and genocide by Islamic Fundamentalist groups like ISIS.


View attachment 289840

Who said anything about "scrapping" Christmas? I was just asking if people thought He might like the gift of Holiness instead?

 

[tulc]

There is no judgement in this question.

Well...you may have not meant it to sound judging but in all honesty it did pretty much come across as judging.

Not from me, but the One who is being celebrated will judge.

and I have no fear of that judging. He's never judged wrong in the past and He knows what's in out hearts and He loves us any way. On the other hand I'm pretty sure no one here on earth can judge as fairly or rightly as He does. So, I'm not really too concerned about how others judge what I do either. On the third hand, I consider Christmas as falling under the "meat issue"

1 Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with—even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.

2-4 For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume he should only be a vegetarian and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ’s table, wouldn’t it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn’t eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God’s welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.

5 Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.

6-9 What’s important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God’s sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you’re a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It’s God we are answerable to—all the way from life to death and everything in between—not each other. That’s why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.

10-12 So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I’d say it leaves you looking pretty silly—or worse. Eventually, we’re all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren’t going to improve your position there one bit. Read it for yourself in Scripture:

“As I live and breathe,” God says,
“every knee will bow before me;
Every tongue will tell the honest truth
that I and only I am God.”

So tend to your knitting. You’ve got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.

13-14 Forget about deciding what’s right for each other. Here’s what you need to be concerned about: that you don’t get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. I’m convinced—Jesus convinced me!—that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.

15-16 If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don’t eat, you’re no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? Don’t you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!

17-18 God’s kingdom isn’t a matter of what you put in your stomach, for goodness’ sake. It’s what God does with your life as he sets it right, puts it together, and completes it with joy. Your task is to single-mindedly serve Christ. Do that and you’ll kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the God above you and proving your worth to the people around you.

19-21 So let’s agree to use all our energy in getting along with each other. Help others with encouraging words; don’t drag them down by finding fault. You’re certainly not going to permit an argument over what is served or not served at supper to wreck God’s work among you, are you? I said it before and I’ll say it again: All food is good, but it can turn bad if you use it badly, if you use it to trip others up and send them sprawling. When you sit down to a meal, your primary concern should not be to feed your own face but to share the life of Jesus. So be sensitive and courteous to the others who are eating. Don’t eat or say or do things that might interfere with the free exchange of love.

22-23 Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don’t impose it on others. You’re fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you’re not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what you believe—some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them—then you know that you’re out of line. If the way you live isn’t consistent with what you believe, then it’s wrong.

So again, you want to celebrate? Do so. Don't want to? Don't. But you should let others decide for themselves what they want to do.

Are you going to tell Him the same thing?

Oh yeah...it wouldn't be the first time I've talked back to Him and I'm pretty sure it wont be the last. He already knows what I'm thinking so why not be honest with Him? I've found when I do that it tends to help me come around a lot faster to what He wants because than we cut through all the "religious chaff" we tend to throw up to try and make ourselves look more spiritual. And believe me, He's never once been fooled by any of my excuses or "But I only want to do what You want!" protests in the past. He always knows and the sooner I'm honest with myself and Him the sooner I get to where I'm supposed to be.
tulc(just a thought)

 

[Rajni]

As an aside, the term "Santa" simply means "Saint" in some languages. Therefore, to connect the term "Satan" would be to imply that saints are satanic.

 

[Ophiolite]

Ask any child how they took it when they found out Santa wasn't real. They will tell you they were lied to. Period. But that is a nice back peddle.

It may come as a surprise to you to learn I used to be a child.
I can remember learning the truth about Santa and it didn't trouble me and I didn't see it as a lie. I saw it as a neat story. My two children seem to share that view as they have enthusiastically introduced Santa to their own children, two for each.

Point of Order: I haven't back-peddled. In order to back-peddle I would have needed to first express a view from which I had retreated. That didn't happen. I simply pedalled forward with a personal and, I think, reasonable view of the role of Santa today.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Ask any child how they took it when they found out Santa wasn't real. They will tell you they were lied to. Period. But that is a nice back peddle.

I just asked myself as a child when I was told Santa was not real and I told myself. "No big deal. Never thought he actually was."

I'm guilty of telling my grandchildren stories about Baba Yaga. Do you expect that Jesus will judge me harshly for that? I think He might give me some slack considering the parables He , Himself told.

 

[Jaxxi]

You mean it hasn't been answered to your satisfaction. That doesn't mean it hasn't been answered or been answered correctly.

No, that is not correct! Do you think He would want this? It is a yes or no question and no one has answered with either!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The basis of the holiday is rooted in reality, several historical events.

1. The birth of Christ
2. St. Nicholas

As to the first, it is true that some pagan elements have crept in. But that can be levied against every Christian and Jewish holiday, so it does not hold much water on closer inspection. The fact is that people had cultural experiences and traditions that they kept doing after they converted or adapted a holiday to the new religion that their rulers imposed upon them.

The fact is that Christ was born, and we celebrate that on Christmas. If we want to adamantly say it was not on Christmas, well, it was not. It was far more likely closer to Sukkot, in the fall. But we don't know the exact date anyways, so celebrating it at the end of December should not really be an issue. Did the date subsume a previous pagan holiday? Maybe, but that holiday means nothing at this point and all that really matters is the true King that we celebrate on that date.

As to the second, Santa Clause is based on the historical St. Nicholas of Asia Minor. The change into "Santa Clause" can be either ignored by Christians or a minor part of the Christmas story. The story can be used to teach good, as outlined above by other members. As to the name being similar to "Satan", that is silly - although I have heard that before. It does not work that way in other languages, that is a oddity of English.

As Christians we can all make our own choices, and should not judge other's for theirs. Saying "I am not judging, but He will" is the same thing. We as a society do over commercialize and focus too much on "Santa" and the commercial aspects, but they are not inherently evil. As Christians we would do well to focus on the actual reason for the holiday, celebrate that, and minimize Santa. But to demonize other people for those choices also betrays the love of Christ.

Proof please. Where is the scripture or historical reference that proves that Jesus was Born on December 25th? - There is none. It is all about pagan Sun worship (see post # 4)

 

[Pavel Mosko]

And while I at it will post my favorite video Blog message of the season by the late Nabeel Qureshi.

 

[tampasteve]

Proof please. Where is the scripture or historical reference that proves that Jesus was Born on December 25th? - There is none.

Please re-read my post:

The fact is that Christ was born, and we celebrate that on Christmas. If we want to adamantly say it was not on Christmas, well, it was not. It was far more likely closer to Sukkot, in the fall.

I said we celebrate it on Christmas but that he was likely born in the fall, around Sukkot.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Please re-read my post:

I said we celebrate it on Christmas but that he was likely born in the fall, around Sukkot.

Why should we celebrate the birth of JESUS on the birth of the pagan Sun god Mithras? (see post # 4) when there is no biblical direction to do so and if this is not the birthday of Jesus who's day are we celebrating?

 

[Jaxxi]

I just asked myself as a child when I was told Santa was not real and I told myself. "No big deal. Never thought he actually was."

I'm guilty of telling my grandchildren stories about Baba Yaga. Do you expect that Jesus will judge me harshly for that? I think He might give me some slack considering the parables He , Himself told.

Those were not lies! Everyone is taking this question so personal and getting so defensive! I told my first born about Santa! I am guilty of doing this also! The question is not to condemn anyone but just make them think as it made me think about it. I don't know the answer which is why Im asking!

 

[tulc]

I just asked myself as a child when I was told Santa was not real and I told myself. "No big deal. Never thought he actually was."

I'm guilty of telling my grandchildren stories about Baba Yaga. Do you expect that Jesus will judge me harshly for that? I think He might give me some slack considering the parables He , Himself told. (emph. added)

NICE! She was always one of my favorites!
tulc(now returns the thread back to where it left off)

 

[Isilwen]

No, that is not correct! Do you think He would want this? It is a yes or no question and no one has answered with either!

Yes.