Do you love your guns?

[Isis-Astoroth]

What do you think about the legalisation of guns, even with permits. The UK bans the use of guns for all except the armed forces and special groups of the police force. Some people say we should have the right to defend our lives and our own property with guns, yet there is so many deaths from shootings in the UK with guns being illegal. If they were legalised how many deaths would occur then?

Thoughts?

 

[Redneck]

So, there's still gun homicides despite the fact that private gun ownership is illegal? That's a really effective gun control there.

I believe that possession of automatic weapons has been either heavily regulated or illegal in the United States for about the past 70 years. That didn't prevent some crooks from getting their hand on a couple of AK-47's a few years back and shooting up a bunch of police cars in California.

 

[Isis-Astoroth]

But the same is with drugs. Every country has an drug problem...you could argue ineffective control there. Guns are a problem, but you can't stop them because there is no world wide ban.

 

[Redneck]

Guns are a problem, but you can't stop them because there is no world wide ban.

Even if there was a world wide ban, it would be extremely hard to control guns, because people could make their own.

 

[Ailanthus]

You mean there's no hunting in the UK?

 

[MediocrityInAction]

You mean there's no hunting in the UK?

There is some. There is not a total ban on firearms, but instead a total ban on pistols. Rifles and shotguns can still be owned, but the system of licensing is rather draconian. Unfortunately, there is rather a lot of anti-hunting sentiment in the United Kingdom at the moment, although it is currently directed against the use of dogs.

 

[Redneck]

How many billions of guns are in the world? Even if all firearms and ammunition manufacture was suspended as of this moment, people would still be killing each other with guns for years to come.

It's not just the Russians that make AK's either. I'm pretty sure that the Chinese do as well.

 

[Glaz]

How many billions of guns are in the world? Even if all firearms and ammunition manufacture was suspended as of this moment, people would still be killing each other with guns for years to come.

It's not just the Russians that make AK's either. I'm pretty sure that the Chinese do as well.

Yeah, I think the Chinese have been making and selling knock offs of the AK since the 60's. They can ban guns all they want, it'll just be like illegal drugs: if you really want it, you'll be able to get it without alot of problems.

 

[Kal'thzar]

does anyone have statistics for deaths or related crimes with a firearm for different countries, to compare?

 

[Redneck]

does anyone have statistics for deaths or related crimes with a firearm for different countries, to compare?

Well, in the United States, one should do it by state. There are dozens of different gun laws depending on where you are in the country.

 

[jgarden]

I find it "strange" that while America has introduced Homeland security and invaded Afghanistan and Iraq as a result of 9/11, it sees no need to licence the approximately 250 million firearms within its own borders. Deaths from firearms far surpass the 3000 killed as a result of 9/11. Historically, American governments choose to ignore any connection between access to firearms and deaths caused by firearms. The NRA makes it in their best interests to look the other way.

America shares a 4000 mile border with Canada, a nation without the second Ammendment and a prevailing gun culture, and a much lower crime rate. The 2004 Republican Party Platform not only reasserts the "right-to-bear-arms" but characterizes any attempts to hold firearms manufacturers accountable for the sale/usage of their product as "frivolous." Presumably, firearms manufacturers are doing their "patriotic" duty by providing a never ending flow of guns so that citizens can exercise their constitutional rights under the 2nd Ammendment.

The government may not have the foresight to ensure American citizens enough flu shots as a priority, but it will never compromise in its resolve to permit universal access to unregistered guns.

 

[Kal'thzar]

heh one of my school teachers says that the USA has the gun laws in case king george invades again (which george was it by the way? that the revolted from?)

 

[Redneck]

America shares a 4000 mile border with Canada, a nation without the second Ammendment and a prevailing gun culture, and a much lower crime rate.

Handguns are banned in Washington D.C. I'd recommend some research on their crime rate.

Historically, American governments choose to ignore any connection between access to firearms and deaths caused by firearms.

Tell the people that were killed at Columbine that gun control works.

Presumably, firearms manufacturers are doing their "patriotic" duty by providing a never ending flow of guns so that citizens can exercise their constitutional rights under the 2nd Ammendment.

One of my guns was made in the United States. I've got...more than one.

The 2004 Republican Party Platform not only reasserts the "right-to-bear-arms" but characterizes any attempts to hold firearms manufacturers accountable for the sale/usage of their product as "frivolous."

Is GMC or Ford responsible for people that use their cars to run people over, or as a tool to commit some other type of crime? Is Compaq or Apple responsible for the people that use their computer to hack government databases or stuff like that? I'd love to see how frivolous you think that right to bear arms is, when faced with a cougar, or a feral dog, or when a possum is killing your chickens...

 

[Dale]

Isis in OP:
<<

What do you think about the legalisation of guns, even with permits. The UK bans the use of guns for all except the armed forces and special groups of the police force. Some people say we should have the right to defend our lives and our own property with guns, yet there is so many deaths from shootings in the UK with guns being illegal. If they were legalised how many deaths would occur then? >>

Your question is ridiculous. The US murder rate is three times the murder rate in the UK. Guns are very obviously the reason why.

 

[R.James]

...US murder rate is three times the murder rate in the UK. Guns are very obviously the reason why.

Where do you get that reasoning? Looking at the murder capitals of the US, I'm inclined to believe that population density and poverty have more direct effects on murder rate than guns. Civilian ownership of handguns is banned in Washington DC, but is still the reigning murder champion of the US if I'm not mistaken. DC and other high crime cities like Detroit have problems that run far deeper than gun ownership.

Here's some data from 2002.

http://www.safestreetsdc.com/subpages/murdercap.html

 

[setzie]

So, there's still gun homicides despite the fact that private gun ownership is illegal? That's a really effective gun control there.

I believe that possession of automatic weapons has been either heavily regulated or illegal in the United States for about the past 70 years. That didn't prevent some crooks from getting their hand on a couple of AK-47's a few years back and shooting up a bunch of police cars in California.

Well, the fact that it is illegal to own a nuclear weapon might not prevent a crazy scientist from making his own nuke.

The gun control in the UK is actually the most effective in whole europe. The UK has also the lowest number of gun-crimes in Europe.

If you compare the US with the UK:

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]10.58 people are killed each year per 100,000 population in the USA compared with 0.69 per 100,000 in the UK. Suicides comprise 62 per cent of UK gun deaths.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,869067,00.html
[/font]

 

[setzie]

How many billions of guns are in the world? Even if all firearms and ammunition manufacture was suspended as of this moment, people would still be killing each other with guns for years to come.

It's not just the Russians that make AK's either. I'm pretty sure that the Chinese do as well.

You forget countries like the USA or Germany and other Western countries that own a great share of that multibillion-dollar-business.

"At least two thirds of all global arms transfers between 1997 and 2001 came from five members of the G8 -- the US, Russia, France, the UK and Germany."

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/ENG-IOR300032003

As long as we profit from that business it will continue. Now even if you say that we should withdraw from exporting guns to other countries, then another country would step in. The business would move to another country, it will not disappear.

 

[Avenger1600]

So, there's still gun homicides despite the fact that private gun ownership is illegal? That's a really effective gun control there.

Yes there is, but imagine how much worse it could be without a gun ban.

 

[Redneck]

Yes there is, but imagine how much worse it could be without a gun ban.

Is there a credible study that actually corroborates that with a drop in the crime rate committed with handguns?

 

[Norseman]

What do you think about the legalisation of guns, even with permits. The UK bans the use of guns for all except the armed forces and special groups of the police force. Some people say we should have the right to defend our lives and our own property with guns, yet there is so many deaths from shootings in the UK with guns being illegal. If they were legalised how many deaths would occur then?

Thoughts?

I don't know. Does defending yourself by killing someone else make sense? Saving lives through killing? I don't know about you, but that seems a little too much like going to war in the name of peace, or raping for virginity. It just doesn't make sense.