Do you know why a Christian cannot willfully sin

[1stcenturylady]

When did you make this move away from denominationalism and believing in the gifts of the Spirit? Was that around the same time you stopped sinning altogether?

No. A few years apart. I trust you are being serious and not mocking. I see someone took your question as a joke.

SDA from 1947 to 1970 - Law, law, law.
CoC from 1970 to 1971 - grace, but there were errors.
Open to the Spirit - 1971 to 1977. Being drawn by the Spirit
Feburary 9, 1977 Filled with the Spirit and received power. It was then I was born again. I really don't think I was even saved before then. I've thought about that a lot, and find no way to see that I could have been. That is my greatest fear for the Church at large. Many go to church as I did for 30 years powerless! Are they saved? Or will God say to them, "I never knew you."

 

[sunlover1]

Do I miss the mark - straight on bullseye - yes I do.
Do I commit lawlessness - no I don't.

But before I was filled with the Spirit I couldn't stop. I was in love with a married man, and couldn't stay out of his bed! I tried and tried in my own strength and was a complete failure. It was like asking me to not breathe.

But on February 9, 1977 I was filled with the Holy Spirit (His seed) and had supernatural strength overnight. It had to do with my desires. I just didn't want to anymore. He did it all. Romans 6:2 is real. We are dead to sin.

I was also living in sin before I had the baptism of the Spirit.
Once I had the baptism, I told my boyfriend he had to go.
No way was I going to go there.
And missing the mark is what they call "sin".. and the Bible says
that if you say you're without sin, you're a liar and the truth is
not in you.
(And yes, it was me who thought it was humorous when he asked
if that was about the time you began to be sin free smh)
May be the spirit of error. shrug.
Definitely not sin free.
But not dissing you, none of us is.
Fasting is always helpful

 

[Neogaia777]

I willfully sin. Does this mean I'm not a Christian?

Actually, you don't willfully sin, she (the OP) is right, but she is also wrong...

Paul explained this in Romans 7 how even he, still does sin sometimes, but it is against his will, that it is the sin in him doing it and not him or his will personally, not what he wants or wills to do IOW's...

I used to think that I willfully sinned as well, till I pondered Paul's words here... I used to think a willful sin was a sin you committed full well knowing beforehand and before you did it that it was a sin and was going to be a sin and you did it anyway... But, that's not what a willful sin is or means... It simply means that it is sin that you do and commit, "knowingly or not doesn't matter), but is not "what you want (or will) to do", but was and is something you fight every time, and whether you give in or not, if you do want to do it (in your heart), it is not "willful sin"...

Something we fight all the time and occasionally lose fighting and sin, is not a willful sin... A willful sin is a sin that you simply do not fight at all, and do not even care about doing when you know it is a sin, or may think might be a sin, but just don't care at all... That is a willful sin... All else is not willful sin...

She is wrong in thinking you will not or do not ever sin... She is wrong in thinking that if you commit a sin beforehand full well knowing it is a sin, is necessarily a "willful sin" as well... If you do not want to do, and afterward wish you didn't, tried to fight it initially, and feel regret and sorrow over it, are repentant about it, ect... That is not a willful sin, but an un-willful sin...

People who think you do not ever commit any sin at all after you are saved, knowingly or not, or whatever, are delusional... and are, in my mind committing sin in thinking and teaching others that, and I also think they are lying as well...

Also, think about what is "willful" for a moment... If you will to do a thing, you are intentionally trying to do it with your will and by exerting your will to purposefully do that thing correct...? and not against your will correct...? This is why a lot of sin, especially the sins Christians commit is not really "willful" sin, but is most of the time, if not all of the time, sin "against their will" and is the sin (flesh, carnality, whatever) in them doing it, cause it is not their will to do so...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Actually, you don't willfully sin, she (the OP) is right, but she is also wrong...

Paul explained this in Romans 7 how even he, still does sin sometimes, but it is against his will, that it is the sin in him doing it and not him or his will personally, not what he wants or wills to do IOW's...

I used to think that I willfully sinned as well, till I pondered Paul's words here... I used to think a willful sin was a sin you committed full well knowing beforehand and before you did it that it was a sin and was going to be a sin and you did it anyway... But, that's not what a willful sin is or means... It simply means that it is sin that you do and commit, "knowingly or not doesn't matter), but is not "what you want (or will) to do", but was and is something you fight every time, and whether you give in or not, if you do want to do it (in your heart), it is not "willful sin"...

Something we fight all the time and occasionally lose fighting and sin, is not a willful sin... A willful sin is a sin that you simply do not fight at all, and do not even care about doing when you know it is a sin, or may think might be a sin, but just don't care at all... That is a willful sin... All else is not willful sin...

She is wrong in thinking you will not or do not ever sin... She is wrong in thinking that if you commit a sin beforehand full well knowing it is a sin, is necessarily a "willful sin" as well... If you do not want to do, and afterward wish you didn't, tried to fight it initially, and feel regret and sorrow over it, are repentant about it, ect... That is not a willful sin, but an un-willful sin...

People who think you do not ever commit any sin at all after you are saved, knowingly or not, or whatever, are delusional... and are, in my mind committing sin in thinking and teaching others that, and I also think they are lying as well...

Also, think about what is "willful" for a moment... If you will to do a thing, you are intentionally trying to do it with your will and by exerting your will to purposefully do that thing correct...? and not against your will correct...? This is why a lot of sin, especially the sins Christians commit is not really "willful" sin, but is most of the time, if not all of the time, sin "against their will" and is the sin (flesh, carnality, whatever) in them doing it, cause it is not their will to do so...

God Bless!

A willful sin is a sin that you full well intentionally did and exerted your will to do not caring about the consequences, reprecussions, "whatever" or "anything at all", ever... And feel, or felt absolutely no remorse or guilt or whatever about at all, ever... Knowing it is a sin, and doing it and not caring at all, and feel nothing negative about it all ever... (IOW's not ever feeling repentant about ever)... That you full well know is sin and a sin and just do not care, and am even happy with and about... If there are negative feelings associated with it whatsoever, it is probably not willful sin...

That's willful sin...

All else is not...

God Bless!

 

[sandpiper22]

Even though the Word emptied Himself to become man, the baby Jesus, the seed of the Father was in Him from the beginning of conception. Therefore, during His life even before He was baptized by the Spirit for ministry and miracles, He didn’t sin, though He was tempted by Satan, just as we are. And for us, God always makes a way of escape.

That same seed is in Christ’s followers who have been baptized with the Spirit. 1 John 3:says, 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

This is also why we must have that seed in us. Romans 8:9 "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."

If you still willfully sin (and don't be spiritually ignorant and say all sin is willful. There are also unknown (to us) sins that are not sins unto death in 1 John 5. Willful sins are rebellious against God - and without repentance will produce death.), do as Jesus said, "Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works." So what are the first works? Acts 2:38, I believe are those in a nutshell.

 

[sandpiper22]

Paul, one of the faith's greatest theologians, and definitely, undeniably in heaven with his Lord, stated the following:
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. (Romans 7:15) Sounds very much like he is saying he willfully sinned (what I hate, that do I.).....You are right about 1 John 3:9, but what you missed is John emphatically saying..."cannot sin"...which basically means that at the new birth when one is regenerated, and the seed of Christ is in him, and he has that New Man residing in him, that New Man, which is of the seed of Christ, CANNOT SIN...cannot be tainted with sin, no matter what the Old Man (the flesh, dead IN sin and trespasses) does by way of the flesh. Is that a license to go ahead and sin ? No way. That is an assurance of rest, a quieting of the conscience, a dulling of the pain caused by sin, whether willfully done or not.
The Old Man, in David's words, conceived in sin, has ALREADY received the death sentence of sin (the wages of sin is death) from his natural birth and by descent from his first parents, and continues to reap the death sentence of sin in this time world (aging, disease, conscience, natural death), and will rot and return to dust in the grave, WHILE THE NEW MAN SOARS BACK TO HIS HEAVENLY ORIGIN, and into his new body, his mansion, in heaven, immediately.
That New Man, being of the seed of Christ, is DEAD TO SIN, that is unaffected by sin and its fruit, which is death, hell, hades, the grave.
Listen to Paul's conclusion on his struggle with sin, both willful and not:

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. (the flesh: the old man....sandpiper22)

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. (the flesh, which will die, and return to dust...sandpiper22)

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: (the inward man, the New Man...sandpiper22)

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin (the law of sin, to which the old man is wed, see opening verses....sandpiper22) which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:18-22)

 

[Arthur B Via]

Well, if you take this verse in isolation from the rest of Scripture, your idea of the total sinless of the Christian or, at least, their total and perfect refraining from willful sin, might be assumed. But Scripture has more to say to us about the believer and his/her struggle with sin than you've offered here. And when we consider the whole counsel of Scripture, the idea that the real Christian believer will never sin purposefully quickly dissolves. Here are some other verses that give us reason to reject the conclusion you've come to from the verse you offered from 1 John 3:

Romans 7:21-23
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?

1 Corinthians 3:14-15
14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Galatians 5:17
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

"Does not sin" in 1 John 3:9 carries the sense of a lifestyle that is turned from sin; it does not mean "one never sins." And this reading is confirmed by the verses/passages above that speak of the believer's struggle with sin.



Why did Paul write what he did in Romans 8? Why did he write to believers to be spiritually-minded? Was it because they were already spiritually-minded? Why, then, write to the Roman Christians about it? Obviously, the Roman believers were not living in a spiritually-minded way and this is why Paul was urging them to be spiritually-minded. But this would mean that the Roman Christians - not the Roman apostates or the Roman once-saved-and-now-lost - were living in a carnally-minded way. But this would mean they weren't living totally free of willful sin yet Paul still considered them born-again believers.



I think Jesus told us what the First Work is:

Matthew 22:36-37
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'

Grace! Grace! Grace! Though the simplicity of FAITH. 124 times we are told, BY GOD to BELIEVE!. Faith IN Christ's FINISHED Work at the Cross IS our salvation. STOP promoting fear, God is not about fear... He's consistently about LOVE... God Bless you all..

 

[D. A. Taylor]

Wilful or not, it seems as long as we are human, we will never stop sinning:

"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us" (I John 1:8).

 

[1stcenturylady]

I was also living in sin before I had the baptism of the Spirit.
Once I had the baptism, I told my boyfriend he had to go.
No way was I going to go there.
And missing the mark is what they call "sin".. and the Bible says
that if you say you're without sin, you're a liar and the truth is
not in you.
(And yes, it was me who thought it was humorous when he asked
if that was about the time you began to be sin free smh)
May be the spirit of error. shrug.
Definitely not sin free.
But not dissing you, none of us is.
Fasting is always helpful

Seeing as you are born again of the Spirit and have experienced the dramatic change in your desires, not only against sin, but the hunger and desire to stay faithful to God, I want to show you something about "sin."

1 John 3:4 Sin is Lawlessness. But what that is telling you is it is the type of transgression that is absolutely willful. You can't murder without knowing that's what you are doing. You can't steal without knowing that's what you are doing. And I couldn't commit adultery without knowing that is exactly what I was doing. And what's more I liked it. Thieves like to steal. Murderers like to murder. They get a thrill out of it, especially getting away with it. It makes them feel powerful, just like their father the devil.

This is the type of sin that 1 John 3:5-9 is talking about. We can't do it. We hate it. Conning someone out of the life savings is now something we couldn't bear doing. The thought of incest of a father with his daughter makes him want to throw up! He can't do it.

So is anyone on this forum sinning this type of sin? No? Then why hold me in contempt for claiming I don't do willful sin? What's funny is how many people brag about willful sinning everyday. It makes them feel humble, when in reality it is a perverted sense of self-righteousness - which is an evil religious spirit.

Tell yourself the truth. Read Romans 6. We are not only literally DEAD TO SIN (willful sin) due to the seed of the Holy Spirit planted in us (those who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit - unfortunately, that doesn't automatically include everyone going to church that knows about Jesus). Paul tells us that we who are dead to sin, to also consider ourselves dead to sin. This is not just imputed righteousness - we ARE righteous. (1 John 3:7) But if you keep telling yourself you are still a sinner, pretty soon you will quench the Spirit guiding you and sin. But, if you keep reminding yourself that you are dead to sin, you will resist the devil and he will flee. When we tell a lie long enough, we believe our own lies. Let's not do that to ourselves.

Now, there is another thing I probably should have mentioned first, because you have probably been saying while reading this, but "if we say we are without sin we lie and the truth is not in us." Right? Well, dear, that is NOT about you! It was the day before you got born of the Spirit, but not afterwards. There are many unbelievers who think if there is a God and a heaven, then because they consider themselves good enough, when they die, God would be foolish not to let them in. But there is no other way, but through Christ. Since Adam sinned in the garden, everyone born after that is a sinner, and sins. Paul said the same thing - "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." That includes those who were given the Law - the Jews. But that was our life BEFORE Christ. 1 John 1:8 MUST be read in context with the next verse which is the prerequisite to the born of the Spirit experience. Only then are we cleansed from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. 9 But if we confess our sins to God, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.

So then if you are purified, are you still a sinner? NO! Are surgical instruments full of every kind of germ, once sterilized, are they still filthy? No! And with us, the seed of the Holy Spirit keeps us.

And as you know and bear witness, you don't desire to willfully sin again! It is not the weak grace of some denominations, a vicious circle of sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent. That is NOT the gospel. "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. THAT is the gospel - freedom from willful sin AND our carnal nature. We are now new creatures in Christ.

But we can still miss the mark. That is an entirely different type of sin. They are not sins unto death. Willful sins are sins unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. I've already written about those in one of the posts. They are called "unintentional" or "unknown" sins. They don't even require confession as you don't even know about them, but they don't meet the absolute holiness of God. If you've read that fine. If you want me to find it I will.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Wilful or not, it seems as long as we are human, we will never stop sinning:

"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us" (I John 1:8).

Please read #291. 1 John 1:8 is about an unbeliever. You must read verse 8 in context with verse 9 to become a believer.

Then you are no longer a willful sinner.

Your first sentence I have also answered in the post referred to #291 in the section about telling yourself the truth.

 

[thesunisout]

Even though the Word emptied Himself to become man, the baby Jesus, the seed of the Father was in Him from the beginning of conception. Therefore, during His life even before He was baptized by the Spirit for ministry and miracles, He didn’t sin, though He was tempted by Satan, just as we are. And for us, God always makes a way of escape.

That same seed is in Christ’s followers who have been baptized with the Spirit. 1 John 3:says, 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

This is also why we must have that seed in us. Romans 8:9 "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."

If you still willfully sin (and don't be spiritually ignorant and say all sin is willful. There are also unknown (to us) sins that are not sins unto death in 1 John 5. Willful sins are rebellious against God - and without repentance will produce death.), do as Jesus said, "Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works." So what are the first works? Acts 2:38, I believe are those in a nutshell.

Peter willfully sinned when he wouldn't eat with the gentiles when the Jews were around, because he was afraid of them. Paul talks about that in Galatians 2. He was an apostle so I am not sure what point you are making here. The blood of Christ covered him and it covers us today. God obviously won't allow someone to continually do that forever, but the Lord does give us a lot of grace. It's a growing process and it isn't something where an ax is continually hanging over your neck if you screw up.

 

[D. A. Taylor]

If you look at I John 1:8 in it's entire context, you will see that John is writing to Christians in general. Notice how he always includes himself in every statement:

These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete. This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us (1 John 1:4-10).

John is quite clear: Try as hard as we may, there will always be some element of sin in our lives, simply because we are flesh. Nevertheless, if a Christian "walks in the light" and does his or her best to avoid sin, Christ's sacrifice covers these occasional sins. We see this principle again in I John 3:4-8:

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

But Paul states the situation much more clearly:

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin (Romans 7:14-25).

 

[Neogaia777]

We still sin sometimes (though maybe not as much) after being saved or whatever... But we are not considered "sinners" anymore, even though we still do sometimes sin sometimes... Cause sin is not charged against us anymore...

For when we do sin, it is "against our will"... For it is not what we want to do (anymore) and we feel bad about it (fight it) (all that) all the time, every time... We just don't find our will to "not sin" strong enough to not sin sometimes... So, it is no longer willful sin... For our will is always to not sin... But we still sometimes sin, against our will though (or better judgement, or whatever) (against our true will) though...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

If you look at I John 1:8 in it's entire context, you will see that John is writing to Christians in general. Notice how he always includes himself in every statement:

These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete. This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us (1 John 1:4-10).

John is quite clear: Try as hard as we may, there will always be some element of sin in our lives, simply because we are flesh. Nevertheless, if a Christian "walks in the light" and does his or her best to avoid sin, Christ's sacrifice covers these occasional sins. We see this principle again in I John 3:4-8:

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

But Paul states the situation much more clearly:

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin (Romans 7:14-25).

What does it mean to "practice" (or make a practice of) sin...?

Doesn't it mean one who willfully or full willingly sins and does it purposely and sets out to do do it purposely without any shame, guilt or regret involved at all...?

God Bless!

 

[Chinchilla]

What does it mean to "practice" (or make a practice of) sin...?

God Bless!

Well John in 1 John 8 make clear statement if you sin you are of the devil , but in 1 John 9 he says that you do not sin because you are born of God and can't .

The one who sin is of the devil , sin started with the devil the father of lies . Adam and Eve lost thier first bodies because they were clothed with light , they got these corrupted bodies which we all have now . Before Eve sin she could not feel birth pains but the wage of sin made it that Eve now will bear children in pain for example . Same went for Adam in pain he will tile ground and sweat . It's the part of the curse that sin started . That's why Christ came to restore that relationship with us so we can have new bodies in future when we will be risen from dead by God , we get new bodies like Christ has after resurrection , he could walk in room which had closed doors , appear and disappear and that body has no blood . Earth will be restored aswell and curse will be gone .

 

[forchristianfellowship]

1stcenturylady and all who agree with her about no longer willfully sinning...we are very few...please email falling_ for_ the_ truth@ yahoo.com (with no spaces - that's my wife's email address) so we can have some semblance of fellowship. It'd be neat to hear your background story as well. It seemed to me like perhaps I was the last one left long ago, and then my future wife (now wife) converted, but the lack of others is saddening...and even around Atlanta we can't find a like-minded church. We might plant one again but are on like a peculiar missions lifestyle. I am building like a directory of like-minded people. I remember even getting married seemed near impossible before, and for fellowship as well, I think it would be good if we could connect. To those in the future who come across this, please feel free to email as well. I plan to connect the community. Hebrews 10:24-25

Thanks!

 

[Lily of Valleys]

But we can still miss the mark. That is an entirely different type of sin. They are not sins unto death. Willful sins are sins unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. I've already written about those in one of the posts. They are called "unintentional" or "unknown" sins. They don't even require confession as you don't even know about them, but they don't meet the absolute holiness of God. If you've read that fine. If you want me to find it I will.

What about those sins that one commits out of reflex, but was unintentional at the time when it happened, then they realize after the fact that they had committed a sin? Would you consider those sins as willful or non-willful, known or unknown, human weakness or missing the mark?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Observations, stipulations, conversations....
1. As to the OP, a lot of truth there 1stcenturylady. I would say the verse is talking about the reborn spirit that lives in us. It is not talking about the flesh. It specifically says the part of you that is born again. That is your spirit. It specifically says the part of you that is the seed of God. Your flesh is not the seed of God, your spirit is. I do like that you bring out we cannot sin. I have pointed this out for many years. Several of my books are built on this principle... one such is "How to Never Sin Again." Teaches that if you walk according to the inclinations of your reborn spirit, you will never sin... or as 1 John 3:9 says, you cannot sin. That is literally correct.

2. Someone asked:

"Speaking of "saved", was the thief on the cross saved?"

The question should be "Was he born again?"
Same question applies to Peter and anyone else who was "saved" before the resurrection. Nobody was born again prior to the resurrection of Jesus. Our new birth comes by the resurrection (1 Peter 1:3). We can prove that nobody was born again prior to the resurrection. Jesus had a lengthy discussion with "believers" in John 8. At the end of that discussion He called these believers(31) children of the devil(44). They were believers, but they were not yet born again. They were still the children of the devil in their spirits.
So even believers were not born again prior to the resurrection. Since they were still children of the devil, they could still sin from the spirit. They were saved by faith in what was coming... but not yet born again.

3. There is the common argument based on a poor translation of the 1 John 3:9
"No one born [begotten] of God [deliberately and knowingly] habitually practices sin..." Amplified

There is no textual or grammatical justification for the word "habitual" here. Think about the context of the verse. It says we cannot sin. Why? Because the seed of the Father is in us. We cannot sin from the spirit any more than a good tree can put forth evil fruit. So when people use the world "habitually" they are implying that we may sin, but because we have the seed of God, we do not sin habitually. This means God sins just not habitually? Not good logic at all. God does not sin at all much less habitually, and because our spirits are born again, neither do we sin (from the spirit).

4. So to correctly understand all this you have to realize John is speaking about your spirit. What part of you was "born of God" and is the "seed of God?" It is your spirit. Your mind and body were not born again. They did not become new creations. You still have the same mind and body you had before you were born again. It is your spirit that cannot sin. It is your spirit that is the good tree. Of course believers can sin from the flesh (mind-body union)... as evidenced by many scriptures in the testament. But you cannot sin from your born again spirit.

5. Again, the text of 1 John 3:9 is very specific both in the words, the grammar, and the context. Your spirit cannot sin because it is of the Father. Translators squirm in their theological boots and strain for ways to avoid this clear meaning. So they insert words like "habitually" and "practice" and "continue." Yet there is no justification for these additions. The context is clear. The meaning is that the born again believer is "incapable" of sinning. It is not a matter of will or free will. All the free will in the universe will not enable you do to something that you are incapable of doing... in this case sin (from our of your reborn spirit). You simply cannot do it at all.

6. You will never understand this passage until your acknowledge that your reborn spirit cannot sin any more than the spirit of the unregenerate can do righteousness. See the previous verse:

1 John 3
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Very clear here. No "habitual" or "practice" or "continues." If you are born again you are now capable of doing righteousness. People who are not born again cannot do righteousness. At all. Period. Even the good things they do are evil. They are evil trees and are incapable of putting forth good fruit. This is the context of this passage. Good trees have the seed of God and cannot put forth evil fruit. Evil trees are of the devil and cannot put forth good fruit. The meaning falls apart if you equivocate and start inserting words like "habitual."

7. You will not understand this teaching unless you see we have a spirit and soul and body, and that John is talking about the part of you that is born of God. That is your spirit. Your body needs to be crucified every day, and your mind has to be renewed. No, you truly CANNOT sin from your reborn spirit. This is the great change that occurred and why it is so important. Before you were born again you could not do righteousness from the spirit or soul or body (verse 7). Now that you are born again you cannot sin from the spirit part of you.. but until you get a new body and renew your mind.. you are still capable of sinning from those parts. They were not born of God. I have seen this argument a hundred times. People assuming that because they still want to and can sin in the flesh that they must not be saved. Not so. You are certainly saved and born again. You just need to crucify that flesh and renew that mind. This will go on the rest of your life. Do not be discouraged. 1 John chapter 2 says that he would that we sin not, but if we do, we have a advocate with the Father. He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. He is talking to believers here.. not unbelievers.

8. There was the suggestion that to say we cannot sin (from the spirit) is self righteousness. Not so please. As Paul said, we have the righteousness of God in Christ. (Rom 3) Indeed we have been made the righteousness of God. (2 Corn 5). We need not be shy about proclaiming this. In our spirits this is a reality. In our earthly lives, it is a practical possibility. He that does righteousness is righteous... (as evidenced by the fruit).

9. There was a reference to the "kenosis" of Christ.. that is the "emptying."
He did not empty himself of divine attributes, only of divine rights. He did so for the purpose of becoming subject to death. Otherwise He could not die. This is my version:

Philippians 2: (C. Alan Expanded)
6. He was in the form of God (and therefore outside the possibility of humility, suffering, and death) but he did not estimate these “divine rights”, “power”, and “impassibility” to be of such great importance that they should never (under any circumstances or for any purpose) be relinquished.
7. To the contrary, he divested himself (of those divine rights, power, and impassibility), and took to himself the functionality of a slave. He could only do this by lowering himself to mere human form with all its vulnerability, weaknesses, and dangerous possibilities!
8. Being reduced to the functionally of a mere man, He became completely open to all the things a mere man can be subject to and endure. He allowed himself to be humbled (as only a mere man could) to the end that he could come into full obedience to what God required. Even when that obedience meant his own suffering and death - the death of the cross.
From the book "The 'God is in Control of Everything' Myth"


10. The phrase "willfully" I think is being pulled from Hebrews 10.

Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

The context is not talking about sins of the flesh... rather it is talking about the rejection of Christ and His blood. Note that this one "willful sin" of rejecting Christ re-establishes the judgement against our "sins."

See verse 29.

Heb 10:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Let's not go overboard here and start condemning everyone to hell for sins of the flesh. Nobody will be left standing! It is clear from the context of the passage, indeed the whole book, that the author is talking about the sin of rejecting Christ and falling back into the law. If you do that, then there remains no more sacrifice for sins. See also Heb 6.

10 issues is enough for now... maybe more later.

So I agree with the OP if we are referring to the ability of the reborn spirit to sin. It cannot. If we walk according to the inclinations of that reborn spirit, we will never sin because that spirit has the nature of God.
The key to this entire passage, indeed, the whole book of 1 John and the subject of Christians sinning:
Do not identity this verse with your whole being, rather only that part of you that has been born of God.. your spirit.

Peace
Dids

 

[1stcenturylady]

Peter willfully sinned when he wouldn't eat with the gentiles when the Jews were around, because he was afraid of them. Paul talks about that in Galatians 2. He was an apostle so I am not sure what point you are making here. The blood of Christ covered him and it covers us today. God obviously won't allow someone to continually do that forever, but the Lord does give us a lot of grace. It's a growing process and it isn't something where an ax is continually hanging over your neck if you screw up.

But it wasn't lawlessness was it. Do you know the difference? That is one of the things I'm discussing in this post, and why 1 John 3:9 is true, not impossible as you question.

There are sins unto death - "the wages of sin is death" - and there are sins NOT unto death.

In the Lord's prayer we are asked to pray "and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others their trespasses against us."

 

[1stcenturylady]

What about those sins that one commits out of reflex, but was unintentional at the time when it happened, then they realize after the fact that they had committed a sin? Would you consider those sins as willful or non-willful, known or unknown, human weakness or missing the mark?

You've accurately described them. They are not sins unto death. The are not LAWLESSNESS.

Jesus has given those He baptized with the Holy Spirit, the seeds of the fruit of the Spirit, "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

What you are describing is against one of these. The conviction you felt later is Jesus pruning that branch so you could be free to produce better fruit or even another fruit. Then another, and another. Always larger fruit. Jesus uses the analogy of natural fruit so we can understand that fruit in the natural needs time to grow.

John 15:
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

And if you will notice, each fruit of the Spirit cures one or more of the moral laws in the Ten Commandments, and this is in Scripture. Jesus says if you do not love your brother, that is the same as murder.

Does this help?