Do you know why a Christian cannot willfully sin

[RaymondG]

20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So does this mean that it is, in fact, the sin that sins and not the person? making it an incorrect statement to say that one has sinned....after they have reached the level of Paul and have received their new name, of course.

 

[Tree of Life]

Today.

And I'm saying that we all need to consider what that means instead of living on a cloud of "I'm saved" even though we deny scripture when doing so.

Saved people are new. The old sinful self dies and a new one is made of Christ. This is what scripture tells us.

I think it’s highly unbiblical and unhelpful to say that saved people never sin.

 

[brinny]

I dont believe anyone would say this.....so not to be identified with the verse you mentioned...for starters.

But I believe this is an internal feeling one gets when they feel they are saved....and there are others living in error.

not wise to try and determine the salvation of anyone, including oneself until they are in heaven and hell has passed.....

an internal feeling one gets when they feel they are saved.

Raymond, NOBODY who is 'right with God" would even think that, because they're tooo toooo busy being thankful, with a grateful heart, that God has forgiven THEM.

You described "self righteousness", and it's abhorrent to God.

What should be most pronounced in a believers heart is a tender and loving heart, and a lifter-up of others downcast heads.

We are to be encouragers and minister and pray for our fellow weary travelers.

 

[brinny]

So does this mean that it is, in fact, the sin that sins and not the person? making it an incorrect statement to say that one has sinned....after they have reached the level of Paul and have received their new name, of course.

What does "level of Paul" mean?

 

[RaymondG]

Raymond, NOBODY who is 'right with God" would even think that, because they're tooo toooo busy being thankful, with a grateful heart, that God has forgiven THEM.

You described "self righteousness", and it's abhorrent to God.

What should be most pronounced in a believers heart is a tender and loving heart, and a lifter-up of others downcast heads.

We are to be encouragers and minister and pray for our fellow weary travelers.

Do you feel that your line of questioning on this thread was helpful and encouraging?

 

[RaymondG]

What does "level of Paul" mean?

One who has traversed the strait way and receive their new name... tasted on the heavenly kingdom etc....

 

[Inkfingers]

I think it’s highly unbiblical and unhelpful to say that saved people never sin.

Then you are reading a different Bible...

“We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them” (1 John 5:18)

 

[brinny]

Do you feel that your line of questioning on this thread was helpful and encouraging?

As a matter of fact i do.

In addition, i believe the questions were a good thing in that that they sought clarity.

And clarity is always a good thing.

God is not the Author of confusion.

 

[brinny]

One who has traversed the strait way and receive their new name... tasted on the heavenly kingdom etc....

That is a "level"?

Paul was re-named, just as Jacob was.

It does not denote a "level", however.

We might want to be very careful. "Levels" can sometimes feed into the "pride" that we all struggle with. Even Paul did. That's why he was given a "thorn in the side".

 

[Tree of Life]

Then you are reading a different Bible...

“We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them” (1 John 5:18)

I disagree. I think I’m reading the Bible carefully. Your use of Scripture is indelicate and you’re not rightly handling the word of truth.

 

[Phil 1:21]

So does this mean that it is, in fact, the sin that sins and not the person? making it an incorrect statement to say that one has sinned....after they have reached the level of Paul and have received their new name, of course.

Ah, most people skip right over that verse (which is why I included it.) Interesting statement of Paul's, isn't it?

 

[Inkfingers]

I disagree. I think I’m reading the Bible carefully. Your use of Scripture is indelicate and you’re not rightly handling the word of truth.

Oh really.

That's a rather convenient accusation but the text says that one born of God does not sin. It's there in Receptus and its there in the Morphological Text too.

Receptus: Οἴδαμεν ὅτι πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει ἀλλ᾽ ὁ γεννηθεὶς ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ τηρεῖ ἐαυτὸν καὶ ὁ πονηρὸς οὐχ ἅπτεται αὐτοῦ

MT: οἴδαμεν ὅτι πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει ἀλλ’ ὁ γεννηθεὶς ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ τηρεῖ αὐτόν καὶ ὁ πονηρὸς οὐχ ἅπτεται αὐτοῦ

Nobody born of God sins. This is inline with 2 Corinthians 5:17 where those born of God are a new creation. Do not be so quick to dismiss this. You have to admit that many of us may be devastatingly wrong in thinking the saved can still sin.

 

[Tree of Life]

Oh really.

That's a rather convenient accusation but the text says that one born of God does not sin. It's there in Receptus and its there in the Morphological Text too.

Receptus: Οἴδαμεν ὅτι πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει ἀλλ᾽ ὁ γεννηθεὶς ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ τηρεῖ ἐαυτὸν καὶ ὁ πονηρὸς οὐχ ἅπτεται αὐτοῦ

MT: οἴδαμεν ὅτι πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει ἀλλ’ ὁ γεννηθεὶς ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ τηρεῖ αὐτόν καὶ ὁ πονηρὸς οὐχ ἅπτεται αὐτοῦ

Nobody born of God sins. This is inline with 2 Corinthians 5:17 where those born of God are a new creation. Do not be so quick to dismiss this.

Do you know what the significance of the present active indicative verb form is? Do you know why it is significantly different than, say, the aorist verb form? Do you know the relevance of these matters to the verse in question?

 

[Inkfingers]

Do you know what the significance of the present active indicative verb form is? Do you know why it is significantly different than, say, the aorist verb form? Do you know the relevance of these matters to the verse in question?

Enough to know that the "ει" ending of "ἁμαρτάνει" in no way challenges what I am saying. So spare me the pompous showboating over Greek (especially when every translation applies the language in the manner I am describing).

 

[Tree of Life]

Enough to know that the "ει" ending of "ἁμαρτάνει" in no way challenges what I am saying. So spare me the pompous showboating over Greek (especially when every translation applies the language in the manner I am describing).

Well the verb form is significant. The verb sin is in the present, active, indicative which indicates ongoing, continual action. The aorist form would indicate occasional action.

John is not saying that Christians never sin on occasion. If he was saying this then he would've used the aorist verb form.

He is saying that Christians do not continue in sin as a way of life. Christians repent of known sin. This is how we know that someone is a genuine believer. But this does not mean that Christians don't sin period and don't sin on occasion.

Other parts of Scripture concord very well with this. Jesus teaches his disciples to continually be praying: "Forgive us our sins."

 

[Inkfingers]

He is saying that Christians do not continue in sin as a way of life.

He's saying more than that. The passage is speaking of people living a life of sin and then this ceasing. Hence Corinthians telling us that the old self is dead.

I think we are deluding ourselves over the nature of salvation and should reconsider such matters in light of this.

 

[Tree of Life]

He's saying more than that. The passage is speaking of people living a life of sin and then this ceasing. Hence Corinthians telling us that the old self is dead.

I think we are deluding ourselves over the nature of salvation and should reconsider such matters in light of this.

Why did Jesus teach us to continually pray: "Forgive us our sins"?

 

[Tree of Life]

He's saying more than that. The passage is speaking of people living a life of sin and then this ceasing. Hence Corinthians telling us that the old self is dead.

I think we are deluding ourselves over the nature of salvation and should reconsider such matters in light of this.

Why does John say that Christians are in the process of purifying themselves (1 John 3:3)? If Christians no longer sin, they shouldn't have a further need to purify themselves, right?

 

[Inkfingers]

Why does John say that Christians are in the process of purifying themselves (1 John 3:3)? If Christians no longer sin, they shouldn't have a further need to purify themselves, right?

Unless its a process which is not completed at its beginning but takes time during which we can fall away...with us only being born anew at the end.

 

[Tree of Life]

Unless its a process which is not completed at its beginning but takes time during which we can fall away...

The Bible says that this purification is certainly a process that takes time. The Bible says that Christians are being purified. This implies that Christians still have sin in their lives, yet it is passing away.