Do you know why a Christian cannot willfully sin

Meowzltov · Jun 28, 2018

Alithis said:
i dont say its not authentic , but if they do that over and over they SHOW its not authentic.

Oh, I assumed we were discussing one time sins such as cheating on one's income taxes.

As to "sinning over and over," there are a number of different things we could be talking about here.

For example, someone could be struggling with addictive behaviors that are less than willful, such as alcoholic behavior or porn addiction. I hope you are not including such things in "willful" sin.

A Christian may also become confused, and no longer believe that certain actions are sin. In such cases, again, there is no willful disobedience.

Once those two are eliminated, the third most common case for Christian sin is simply what I would call partial willfulness. They know it is wrong, but they are not thinking of how it is a rebellion against God when they do it, and as time goes by their conscience become numb so that they become less aware of what they are doing.

This happened to me. As a young child, I stole food, especially candy, from the cupboards. By the time I was a teen, I was simply numb, and began to lift larger things and money. By the time I was in college, I occasionally shoplifted from stores. And I did all this while worshiping God with all my heart, with no consciousness that there was a serious conflict. Then one day, while praying, and examining my life, i reviewed the ten commandments. Bam! It hit me in the gut. I knew I couldn't continue stealing. I had to repent. I felt just horrible. But the same God that had spoken to me through his commandments forgave me and cast my sins into the sea. After that, it was a matter of breaking the habit. Even years later, I found myself walking out of a store with something I had swiped hardly being conscious of it. I was horrified. I was so scared sneaking it back in that I was sure someone would catch me just because of was so "obvious." LOL But that's what repentance is: turning back to God's ways. All those years of stealing when I was young were like water wearing a groove in a rock -- my mind just works a certain way. Even now at my age, I'm tempted from time to time. I'll always be a thief. But God be praised, I'm a "clean and sober" thief by his grace.

1stcenturylady · Jun 28, 2018

Open Heart said:
Even now at my age, I'm tempted from time to time. I'll always be a thief. But God be praised, I'm a "clean and sober" thief by his grace.

What I discovered recently by the Spirit is in Romans 6, Paul says we are dead to sin. But then further he tells us to reckon ourselves dead to sin. It is not enough that it is a fact. (you were horrified to discover you had done it again unconsciously and wanted to take it back). But you are hindering yourself by calling yourself "a thief." No! You are a SAINT!. Once you believe that with all your heart, the actions will follow. Your biggest "habit" is telling yourself a lie about yourself.

From your testimony I can tell you do have the Holy Spirit in you or you would still steal with no horrification. So just start to tell yourself the truth.

The Times · Jun 28, 2018

Tree of Life said:
I willfully sin. Does this mean I'm not a Christian?

Jesus declares believers/Christians as servants. However servants of Christ, who are Christians can fall into two categories, the faithful servants and the wicked servants.

Jesus judges wicked servants/ Christians who wilfully sin as follows.....

45But suppose the servant (wicked) (Matthew 24:48) says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk.46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. (Luke 12:45-46)

Jesus assigns that wicked servant/Christian a place with the unbelievers.

Can that person after the fact be declared as a Christian?

Are unbelievers Christians?

Alithis · Jun 28, 2018

Open Heart said:
Oh, I assumed we were discussing one time sins such as cheating on one's income taxes.

As to "sinning over and over," there are a number of different things we could be talking about here.

For example, someone could be struggling with addictive behaviors that are less than willful, such as alcoholic behavior or porn addiction. I hope you are not including such things in "willful" sin.

A Christian may also become confused, and no longer believe that certain actions are sin. In such cases, again, there is no willful disobedience.

Once those two are eliminated, the third most common case for Christian sin is simply what I would call partial willfulness. They know it is wrong, but they are not thinking of how it is a rebellion against God when they do it, and as time goes by their conscience become numb so that they become less aware of what they are doing.

This happened to me. As a young child, I stole food, especially candy, from the cupboards. By the time I was a teen, I was simply numb, and began to lift larger things and money. By the time I was in college, I occasionally shoplifted from stores. And I did all this while worshiping God with all my heart, with no consciousness that there was a serious conflict. Then one day, while praying, and examining my life, i reviewed the ten commandments. Bam! It hit me in the gut. I knew I couldn't continue stealing. I had to repent. I felt just horrible. But the same God that had spoken to me through his commandments forgave me and cast my sins into the sea. After that, it was a matter of breaking the habit. Even years later, I found myself walking out of a store with something I had swiped hardly being conscious of it. I was horrified. I was so scared sneaking it back in that I was sure someone would catch me just because of was so "obvious." LOL But that's what repentance is: turning back to God's ways. All those years of stealing when I was young were like water wearing a groove in a rock -- my mind just works a certain way. Even now at my age, I'm tempted from time to time. I'll always be a thief. But God be praised, I'm a "clean and sober" thief by his grace.

porn is adultary .
it is not a substance.
it is not an addiction it is a sin against God And ones own body.

alcohol is not a breaking of the law but it can become a bondage untoour destruction or lead us into sin. anything that xausesa bondage destroying us it is of the evil one.therefore upon repentance it should be cast out of the person that they may be freed

sunlover1 · Jun 29, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
@sunlover1 You never responded to my post to you. Have you at least met the challenge and read what Paul meant in context. (Romans 7:7-25 all the way through chapter 8:1-10) Or did you, but it is still foolishness to you? You just keep studying to show yourself approved. Don't trust your pastor to teach you, as what you now know is blatantly unscriptural. He could be responsible for sending a whole lot of apathetic people to hell. And if you are not going to study for yourself out of boredom for the truth, remember '“The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.'

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

I do study, have for very many years. I love God's Word.
I believe that a couple of you have misunderstood "sin".
Because I have no time for ad hom, bullying, accusations etc .

"Don't trust your pastor to teach you, as what you now know..."

"..if you're not going to study for yourself, out of boredom
for the truth.."

" have you AT LEAST met the challenge and read what Paul
meant in context".
etc.

Not very conducive to rapport or draw someone into
"discussion".
You go ahead and teach your sin free message. There
are plenty of others who can banter with you.

1stcenturylady · Jun 29, 2018

sunlover1 said:
I do study, have for very many years. I love God's Word.
I believe that a couple of you have misunderstood "sin".
Because I have no time for ad hom, bullying, accusations etc .

"Don't trust your pastor to teach you, as what you now know..."

"..if you're not going to study for yourself, out of boredom
for the truth.."

" have you AT LEAST met the challenge and read what Paul
meant in context".
etc.

Not very conducive to rapport or draw someone into
"discussion".
You go ahead and teach your sin free message. There
are plenty of others who can banter with you.

I don't care if you never converse with me again. Just read the passage in CONTEXT. What you believe is the opposite of what is written. Romans 7:7 through 8:9 Do it for yourself.

If I seem angry, it is just righteous indignation. I am so tired and afraid for the Church, and its members, who pick and choose for themselves pet verses, and liberal teachers.

SkyWriting · Jun 29, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Even though the Word emptied Himself to become man, the baby Jesus, the seed of the Father was in Him from the beginning of conception. Therefore, during His life even before He was baptized by the Spirit for ministry and miracles, He didn’t sin, though He was tempted by Satan, just as we are. And for us, God always makes a way of escape.

That same seed is in Christ’s followers who have been baptized with the Spirit. 1 John 3:says, 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

This is also why we must have that seed in us. Romans 8:9 "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."

If you still willfully sin (and don't be spiritually ignorant and say all sin is willful. There are also unknown (to us) sins that are not sins unto death in 1 John 5. Willful sins are rebellious against God - and without repentance will produce death.), do as Jesus said, "Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works." So what are the first works? Acts 2:38, I believe are those in a nutshell.

His continuing sins are no longer counted against him, thanks
to the seed of rebirth.

Alithis · Jun 29, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
What I discovered recently by the Spirit is in Romans 6, Paul says we are dead to sin. But then further he tells us to reckon ourselves dead to sin. It is not enough that it is a fact. (you were horrified to discover you had done it again unconsciously and wanted to take it back). But you are hindering yourself by calling yourself "a thief." No! You are a SAINT!. Once you believe that with all your heart, the actions will follow. Your biggest "habit" is telling yourself a lie about yourself.

From your testimony I can tell you do have the Holy Spirit in you or you would still steal with no horrification. So just start to tell yourself the truth.

I like to put a small (respectful)humor to that text from romans.
as i go through the day praying in the spirit and my flesh tries to rise and voice desire ,i say to my flesh...Oi ,I Reckon Your Dead ,the dead dont speak so shut up! lol.

Alithis · Jun 29, 2018

SkyWriting said:
His continuing sins are no longer counted against him, thanks
to the seed of rebirth.

oh no no no , where did you get told that twisting demonic lie? without repentance a turning from ne and unto god to follow and obey jesus there is no forgivness of sin .jesus said "repentance for the forgivness of sin will be preached" .no sorry you dont get to knowibgly continure to serve satan in doing sin you know to be sin and waring aga
inst gid to do so as his enemy and get to enter the kingdom of God.

now if you speak of ambiguus unintentional error ,thats not even knowing you sin ,there is no intent nd the holy spurit will convict and when he does you will repent and not return to doing it.but Sin is Never ever ever acceptable once you know it is sin.we CEASE doing it.

SkyWriting · Jun 29, 2018

Alithis said:
oh no no no , where did you get told that twisting demonic lie?

I was speaking about believers. Got it here:
16None of the sins he has committed will be held against him. He has done what is just and right; he will surely live.

Alithis said:
without repentance a turning from ne and unto god to follow and obey jesus there is no forgivness of sin .jesus said "repentance for the forgivness of sin will be preached" .no sorry you dont get to knowibgly continure to serve satan in doing sin you know to be sin and waring aga
inst gid to do so as his enemy and get to enter the kingdom of God.

now if you speak of ambiguus unintentional error ,thats not even knowing you sin ,there is no intent nd the holy spurit will convict and when he does you will repent and not return to doing it.but Sin is Never ever ever acceptable once you know it is sin.we CEASE doing it.

I didn't say it was acceptable. I claim it is unavoidable. Well...Paul claimed that.
I don't agree with everything he said, but some of it, yes.

18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20 And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

sunlover1 · Jun 29, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
I don't care if you never converse with me again. Just read the passage in CONTEXT. What you believe is the opposite of what is written. Romans 7:7 through 8:9 Do it for yourself.

If I seem angry, it is just righteous indignation. I am so tired and afraid for the Church, and its members, who pick and choose for themselves pet verses, and liberal teachers.

we need to read all of the passages in context of the 'entire' counsel of God.
Btw, "feeling" that you're righteously indignant is no proof that you have a right to be.
i have felt that way too and in fact was pushing law on a loved one, THINKING I was teaching (by example) to be perfect/sin free (in one area)
Anyhow, ijs.

1stcenturylady · Jun 29, 2018

SkyWriting said:
His continuing sins are no longer counted against him, thanks
to the seed of rebirth.

Well, that is one of the doctrines almost stated word for word that you cannot prove by Scripture in context. So lets have it. What is your Scripture and lets discuss it. I know where it is, but lets see if you do.

1stcenturylady · Jun 29, 2018

sunlover1 said:
we need to read all of the passages in context of the 'entire' counsel of God.
Btw, "feeling" that you're righteously indignant is no proof that you have a right to be.
i have felt that way too and in fact was pushing law on a loved one, THINKING I was teaching (by example) to be perfect/sin free (in one area)
Anyhow, ijs.

Enough with the fruitless bantering. Have you read the text in context now or not?

SkyWriting · Jun 29, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Well, that is one of the doctrines almost stated word for word that you cannot prove by Scripture in context. So lets have it. What is your Scripture and lets discuss it. I know where it is, but lets see if you do.

Rom 4
7“Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.”

Psalm 32:1
Of David. A Maskil. Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered!

Psalm 32:2
Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him, in whose spirit there is no deceit!

Psalm 85:2
You forgave the iniquity of Your people; You covered all their sin. Selah

Psalm 103:3
He who forgives all your iniquities, and heals all your diseases,

Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.

Proverbs 28:13
Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.

1stcenturylady · Jun 30, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Rom 4
7“Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.”

Psalm 32:1
Of David. A Maskil. Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered!

Psalm 32:2
Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him, in whose spirit there is no deceit!

Psalm 85:2
You forgave the iniquity of Your people; You covered all their sin. Selah

Psalm 103:3
He who forgives all your iniquities, and heals all your diseases,

Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.

Proverbs 28:13
Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.

All great Old Covenant verses. And Romans 4 is what I knew you would quote. LOL

I'm in the New Covenant, and would like for you to join me where our sins are no longer just covered by the blood of bulls and goats, to where Jesus takes away our sin nature once and for all.

It is the blood of bulls and goats which COVERED sin. But the sin remained. That is NOT the gospel, nor was the gospel known in the Old Covenant. So read further to where Paul talks about what Jesus did to the sin nature. He crucified it. Our sin nature is dead, and we are given a new nature that loves righteousness. In the 4th chapter Paul is still giving his teaching on the LAW. Don't you know we are not under the law, so that verse doesn't apply to us.

What do you think of these verses. 1 John 3:1-9

Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, (not covered) and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Sinners who are still powerless over sin, cannot believe this truth. They think it impossible. But I bear witness it is true, and so do many others, but not as many as want to believe the liberal heresies their itching ears crave.

SkyWriting · Jun 30, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
All great Old Covenant verses. And Romans 4 is what I knew you would quote. LOL

I knew you'd find that funny. I am happy to be right.

The sin nature never changes. I am no less a jerk to others and an idiot in life than before I accepted Jesus as my savior. I have a new direction to look and don't HAVE to follow man and his ways. But I still have pride and arrogance, I eat comfort food and I drive right past beggars on the street, holding up signs, every day. My sin nature has not changed other than Jesus now counts me as a follower.
Jesus forgives my intentional and unintentional sins.

Inkfingers · Jun 30, 2018

SkyWriting said:
The sin nature never changes. I am no less a jerk to others and an idiot in life than before I accepted Jesus as my savior. I have a new direction to look and don't HAVE to follow man and his ways. But I still have pride and arrogance, I eat comfort food and I drive right past beggars on the street, holding up signs, every day. My sin nature has not changed other than Jesus now counts me as a follower.
Jesus forgives my intentional and unintentional sins.

The "sin nature" is supposed to be DEAD. Replaced by a new creation.

“if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.” (2 Corinthians 5:17)

“For we know that our old self was crucified with him” (Romans 6:6)

Repentance, metanoia, is not feeling guilty. It's an utter change so that what you were doing becomes unthinkable.

1stcenturylady · Jun 30, 2018

SkyWriting said:
The sin nature never changes. I am no less a jerk to others and an idiot in life than before I accepted Jesus as my savior. I have a new direction to look and don't HAVE to follow man and his ways. But I still have pride and arrogance, I eat comfort food and I drive right past beggars on the street, holding up signs, every day. My sin nature has not changed other than Jesus now counts me as a follower.
Jesus forgives my intentional and unintentional sins

Your beliefs are common, but a slap in the face to what Jesus actually did for us.

And Jesus didn't just give us power over sin, He freed us from it. How? By removing and changing our nature. We are not in the flesh (the old nature) if we have the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9

By the way, you need to edit your post quotes. You have yourself saying my words (which you don't believe)

SkyWriting · Jun 30, 2018

Inkfingers said:
The "sin nature" is supposed to be DEAD. Replaced by a new creation.

“if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.” (2 Corinthians 5:17)

“For we know that our old self was crucified with him” (Romans 6:6)

Repentance, metanoia, is not feeling guilty. It's an utter change so that what you were doing becomes unthinkable.

From God's point of view, the sin nature is covered by the blood of Jesus.
Nobody ever claims the sin is gone or even faded.
But the blood of Jesus covers all your sin nature, your continued rebellion, and your mistakes.

You can't tell me that Born Again Christians stop having car accidents killing carloads of people
or that the texting they do while driving is no longer a sin against God and humanity.

Inkfingers · Jun 30, 2018

SkyWriting said:
From God's point of view, the sin nature is covered by the blood of Jesus.
Nobody ever claims the sin is gone or even faded.
But the blood of Jesus covers all your sin nature, your continued rebellion, and your mistakes.

You can't tell me that Born Again Christians stop having car accidents killing carloads of people
or that the texting they do while driving is no longer a sin against God and humanity.

The Bible says what it says.

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