Do you know verses that haven't been translated properly?

[Gottservant]

I have been agonizing over "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" for some time now -, I am never satisfied that Jesus would have said "Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?" (He would never have put the focus on Himself) - and it occurs to me that perhaps others had had similar problems with other verses. I know that one attempt at translating "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" to Russian resulted in something garish like (I paraphrase) "the tonic is strong, but the meat is old". Also, Revelation talks about stars failing but this has been translated as falling. Come to think of it, it even extends to numbers: the number of the Beast was mistranslated 666 instead 616.

The purpose of this thread is to bring it all out in the open, albeit briefly. In most cases, there is a way of explaining what the verse means and if you can offer an explanation I urge you to do so, but in those cases where it doesn't seem clear enough, perhaps you could offer your own rendition? Naturally, I only ask this as the Spirit leads; do not think you have to restate whole blocks of text, I am just curious as to what people have found.

As regards "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?", I think Jesus would have said "Father, Father, why your abandonment?" if He had said it in English, as that emphasizes His focus on the Father. You may disagree, I don't really want to argue the point so much as compare possibilities, as far as that is concerned. If you do have another possibility, please share!

 

[ToxicReboMan]

You may already know this. One of the better explanations I have heard for that verse was that Christ was just quoting OT prophecy on the cross. Jesus was a teacher and he was teaching even on the cross.

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?" Psalm 22:1 KJV

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Well, I see Chickapee beat me to it with her link.

 

[Chickapee]

Well, I see Chickapee beat me to it with her link.

lol Hi toxicReboMan ,
i apperciate your sharing this is cool ! , i love it that you said our Lord is our teacher ! and always teaching us !! God bless you and yours
peace , c

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Hey Chickapee,

You bet sister, I'm glad you liked it. Thank you for your kindness and God Bless you too!

brother in Christ,
Daniel

 

[SpiritDriven]

Hi Group,

Eonian life, not eternal life
here is a real eye opener for you....

http://martinzender.com/Zenderature/eonion_life_not_eternal_life.htm

 

[Yekcidmij]

I don't see a problem with the saying. I think it goes to show that Jesus took on sin for us; the Father acted acording to His Holiness and could not have anything to do with it. It shows Jesus' human side. He has been in communion with the Father for eternity past, and now, in taking on our sin, is forsaken by the Father. I'm not surprised that He would cry out like He did.

 

[theIdi0t]

You may already know this. One of the better explanations I have heard for that verse was that Christ was just quoting OT prophecy on the cross. Jesus was a teacher and he was teaching even on the cross.

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?" Psalm 22:1 KJV

The NAB translates Psalms 22:2 as "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?"

But what's interesting is the NAB does say that Mark and Matthew are both alluding to the verse in their passion narratives, but they translate Christ's Aramaic as "forsaken" and not "abandoned", though I guess there isn't too much room for argument when "forsaken" and "abandon" are synonyms.

On a side note, I heard a Pentecostal preaches use "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" as evidence for Christ speaking in tongues.

 

[Monergism]

Also, Revelation talks about stars failing but this has been translated as falling. Come to think of it, it even extends to numbers: the number of the Beast was mistranslated 666 instead 616.

I mentioned elsewhere of the gematria where the name Neron Kaiser is used. A fellow of the eschatological area in Christian Forums notified me that it was Domitian, not Nero, who was the emperor of the time. Nevertheless, I don't know how Domitian would fit, even though you could numerically form his name into 666. But of Nero, the reason why it is either 666 or 616 is because if you have Neron Kaiser, and if you take away the Hebrew letter, nun, it would then be Nero Kaiser, and the number would shift from 666 to 616. So, either is acceptable.

 

[TimRout]

The King James renders Titus 2:13 atrociously. Christology is severely compromised.


"...looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...." [KJV]

"...while we wait for the blessed hope --- the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ...." [NIV]

 

[SummaScriptura]

I have been agonizing over "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" for some time now -, I am never satisfied that Jesus would have said "Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?" (He would never have put the focus on Himself) - and it occurs to me that perhaps others had had similar problems with other verses. I know that one attempt at translating "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" to Russian resulted in something garish like (I paraphrase) "the tonic is strong, but the meat is old". Also, Revelation talks about stars failing but this has been translated as falling. Come to think of it, it even extends to numbers: the number of the Beast was mistranslated 666 instead 616.

The purpose of this thread is to bring it all out in the open, albeit briefly. In most cases, there is a way of explaining what the verse means and if you can offer an explanation I urge you to do so, but in those cases where it doesn't seem clear enough, perhaps you could offer your own rendition? Naturally, I only ask this as the Spirit leads; do not think you have to restate whole blocks of text, I am just curious as to what people have found.

As regards "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?", I think Jesus would have said "Father, Father, why your abandonment?" if He had said it in English, as that emphasizes His focus on the Father. You may disagree, I don't really want to argue the point so much as compare possibilities, as far as that is concerned. If you do have another possibility, please share!

Your thread asks, "Do you know verses that haven't been translated properly?" It seems to me, after reading your post you should have asked, "Do you FEEL there are verses that haven't been translated properly?", because when you look at the passage in which Jesus addresses the Father from the cross, you say, "I am never satisfied that Jesus would have said", and "I think Jesus would have said". That is not a very good methodology of biblical exegesis. Just because a passage does not match what we think or believe, that in itself does not give us the liberty to surmise, "well, it must be translated wrongly".

As it turns out, the passage you seek to re-interpret stands at the very heart of the gospel message, for Christ DID in fact experience our alienation from God and our punishment from God that we might never have to cry words similar to those from hell. By reinterpreting this verse as you feel it should be, I believe it could subvert the message of what Christ has accomplished on the cross, namely our salvation.

Also, did Jesus quote the scripture from Psalm 22, or did David prophetically quote Jesus from the cross?

~~~~~~~~~~~
While I'm here...

Let me take a moment to make sure you've heard back concerning the following you posted in your signature:

If you think I am going to read more of this thread: stop!

Explanation: It is the belief of "Christian Forums" that while it is scriptural to say "Christ became sin for sinners' sakes" (2 Cor 5:21) it is blasphemy to say "Christ became homosexual for homosexuals' sakes". I oppose this.

I contacted a total of 6 members of CF about this, over a period of about 3 months and never once heard back, so I have posted this on faith that they gave permission for their belief to be publically stated.

The word used by Paul in the Greek for "sin" in 2 Cor. 5:21 is "hamartia". The word used by Paul for homosexual in the Greek NT is "arsenokoites" (1 Cor. 6:9). To substitute "homosexual" for "sin" would be, in a word, ludicrous.