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Flippant? I think clear and direct would be more appropriate. But either way, Scripture agrees with my statements, which also have nothing to do with Babylon.
They were called to do good works and Jesus specifically says why He condemned them.
“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'”
Matthew 7:21-23 NASB
These believers practiced sin and that is why they were condemned. So you believe in faith alone. Ok, suppose I believe that Jesus paid for all my sins and I trust in Him that I am completely forgiven so I go out to churches who teach different doctrines that I believe and begin shooting everyone in those churches. Then when the police arrive I begin shooting them to and in the crossfire I get shot and killed. Am I saved? If not why?
You obviously didn’t read my post did you? If you did you would know that the Catholic Church had absolutely nothing to do with the inquisitions and never forced anybody to believe anything. Do you believe that evil prevailed over Jesus’ church for the first 1600 years of Christianity?
“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.”
Matthew 16:18 NASB
John 15 explained in the proper context with the proper translations. So many people who believe in eternal security get way off course when they hit this stumbling block. This is because John 15:1-6 refutes the doctrine of eternal security. In order to understand this passage of scripture you have to really look at the context as well as the Greek definitions of the keys words used here. First I’ll start with the context. Who is Jesus speaking to? This message takes place right after the Last Supper. Judas has already left the upper room to go and betray Jesus and Jesus and His faithful 11 apostles are walking to Gethsemane late at night. So according to the scriptures only Jesus and His faithful 11 apostles are present during this message. So let’s examine Jesus’ message. I’m going to use the NLT version which I know many people will say is inaccurate but I will show you by the definition of the Greek words used that in this particular case the NLT is actually more accurate than the KJV,ASV,and ESV with one exception. In verse 9 the NLT adds the word “true” in front of the word “disciples”. I have removed the word “true” because it is not in the original Greek text and it is not my intention to add anything to the original text in order to support my position in this discussion. So let’s continue.
““I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my disciples. This brings great glory to my Father. “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.”
John 15:1-10 NLT
First let’s examine verses 1 & 2.
““I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more.”
John 15:1-2 NLT
The Father “cuts off” every branch “of mine” that doesn’t produce fruit. Before we look at cuts off notice Jesus says “of mine”. These branches are believers. They are already grafted into the vine. We will see more evidence of this later in my explanation. So let’s look at the full definition of the Greek word used for the term “cuts off” which is aírō (G142).
Definition
1) to raise up, elevate, lift up a) to raise from the ground, take up: stones b) to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand c) to draw up: a fish
2) to take upon one's self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
3) to bear away what has been raised, carry off a) to move from its place b) to take off or away what is attached to anything c) to remove d) to carry off, carry away with one e) to appropriate what is taken f) to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force g) to take and apply to any use h) to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence i) cause to cease
Notice the bold letters in the definition. To take off or away what is attached to anything. The branch is attached to the vine. When the Greek word aírō is used in reference to something that is attached to something the correct definition is removed or detached. The term taken away is also used which still implies the same thing. If someone is taken away from the vine (Jesus) they become detached or removed from Him which cannot result in salvation. Let’s continue there’s plenty more evidence to confirm this
They were not told to do good works. They were told ''to do the will of the father''.
''21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.''
What is the will of the father?
''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.''
They were called to do good works and Jesus specifically says why He condemned them.
“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'”
Matthew 7:21-23 NASB
These believers practiced sin and that is why they were condemned. So you believe in faith alone. Ok, suppose I believe that Jesus paid for all my sins and I trust in Him that I am completely forgiven so I go out to churches who teach different doctrines that I believe and begin shooting everyone in those churches. Then when the police arrive I begin shooting them to and in the crossfire I get shot and killed. Am I saved? If not why?
Jesus is not a vine. Explanation given.
Good Day, Daniel
The will of the Father for Jesus was/is:
John 6 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day
He always does the will of the Father with out fail... checkmate, game over.
In Him,
Bill
Good Day, BNR32FAN
They were not believers... notice Jesus word "I never knew you" they were not his sheep, he never chose to enter into a relationship with them. They can say, and do all they want it is the actions or inaction of Jesus to know or not to know that it the main verb clause and sets the frame work of this passage.
In that chapter "not everyone who says to ME 'Lord, Lord' will ENTER" Matt 7. He does not find fault with their words, their doctrine... He finds fault with their actions. Their fruit.
They do great works "IN JESUS' name" according to Matt 7.
Ezek 18 explains what is going on
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.
Which is why the result is "I never knew you"
I know, hence my reply. Lots of ignorance in the world. Again, so much for Sola Scriptura.I think your Church is the harlot of Babylon and that's what we were talking about,the Catholic Church,hence me referencing Babylon. Anyway.
Do God's will. We enter communion with Him by faith, becoming His sons. Then we're expected to act like it, with the help of grace. It's a package deal, a work of His we cooperate in as we work out our salvation with He who works in us.Why don'y we simplify this and go back to the original point:
What do you think it takes to get to heaven?
Whatever God asks, with the grace He gives to accomplish it. Then He decides how well we've done-with what we've been given.
Good Day, BNR32FAN
They were not believers... notice Jesus word "I never knew you" they were not his sheep, he never chose to enter into a relationship with them. They can say, and do all they want it is the actions or inaction of Jesus to know or not to know that it the main verb clause and sets the frame work of this passage.
In Him,
Bill
Have you read the OP and the TREAD?I never said Judas was a believer.
This thread is about eternal salvation. How do you think yours is holding up?
If you died tonight, how sure are you you'd to heaven?
???They were not told to do good works.
Nor is He a wooden "Door" - John 10
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