Do you get saved through baptism?

[Zecryphon]

Baptizo does not mean, "sprinkle".

I never said it did. I said "baptizo" had other meanings besides "immerse." It can also mean to wash or to make clean among other things.

The word "baptizo" is a derivative of the word "bapto". Here is Strong's entry on "bapto".

G911
βάπτω
baptō
bap'-to
A primary verb; to whelm, that is, cover wholly with a fluid; in the New Testament only in a qualified or specific sense, that is, (literally) to moisten (a part of one’s person), or (by implication) to stain (as with dye): - dip

Now, you can see here that while it primarily means to "immerse" it also means to moisten a part of one's person, therefore, the sprinkling method that is used by the majority of Christian churches is not contrary with scripture, like you'd like everyone to believe it is.

 

[Zecryphon]

Well, the unsaved, unregenerated aren't commanded to be baptized, are they?

I have NEVER said, nor inferred that baptism by water is how we receive salvation. Baptism is for believers only. I think I said that about three, count 'em, THREE times---at least.

Yes you did. Read your own words here from your post # 131 on page 14:

Repenting of sin is what one does to receive salvation. Then baptyism follows--that's the word of God on the matter.

Repent and be baptized. There is no point in arguing with the Word of God on the matter.

You believe repentance is something the believer must do to be saved. Then they must be baptized. The way you have phrased this makes both repentance and baptism a work that the person must do. That is not what is taught in the scriptures. Baptism and repentance are God's work in us.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

As each person stands before God on his own, then each person must choose salvation and baptism for oneself. You cannot do it for anyone, least of all a baby who has no inkling of their own sinfulness.

Here you blatantly state what you now deny ever saying. You believe that a person must choose salvation. That is not taught in the scriptures anywhere. You have further stated that they must choose to be baptized. Both of the statements deny God's work in us. We have a new desire to be baptized, but not because we've made a choice to be baptized, but because God has given us this new desire.

You then go on to state that we can not choose for anyone else, which further promotes the idea that salvation and baptism are things we choose for ourselves by our own power. This is completely at odds with scripture. So you can pat yourself on the back for saying that baptism is for believers only, three times, that's great. But it's really irrelevant as I have not said anything to the contrary.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yes you did. Read your own words here from your post # 131 on page 14:

Haha.

Funny. No I didn't.



Yes, we must choose Christ. If we don't, we choose Satan. We have a will. God tells us to choose life.

 

[Zecryphon]

Haha.

Funny. No I didn't.



Yes, we must choose Christ. If we don't, we choose Satan. We have a will. God tells us to choose life.

That's the best response you've got? I've already shown that you did in fact say what you deny saying. Going back and forth with "yes you did", "no I didn't", sn't going to change what is plain for all to see.

There is no scripture that shows anyone making a "choice for Christ." If you have it, please provide it. There is no "choice" to be made. We are born separated from God because of our sinful nature. We didn't choose that. We don't choose to accept Satan. We are children of the devil and of wrath by birth. No one chooses that. Likewise, no one seeks to do good or seeks after God. We are saved because God saves us.

 

[Floatingaxe]

That's the best response you've got? I've already shown that you did in fact say what you deny saying. Going back and forth with "yes you did", "no I didn't", sn't going to change what is plain for all to see.

There is no scripture that shows anyone making a "choice for Christ." If you have it, please provide it. There is no "choice" to be made. We are born separated from God because of our sinful nature. We didn't choose that. We don't choose to accept Satan. We are children of the devil and of wrath by birth. No one chooses that. Likewise, no one seeks to do good or seeks after God. We are saved because God saves us.

Well, I didn't say what you claim because I don't believe it. So, you are misreading me. That's not my problem. It's yours.

Everyone is given a choice, and a choice to reject Jesus Christ is a choice for Satan by default.

We are saved because God saves us, because we have freely come to Christ, accepting His free gift of life. You don't throw a dead man a lifebuoy. You throw a drowning man one, because he is hollering at you, looking to be saved, and he reaches for it, hanging on while he is drawn into the boat.

Ever read John 3:16? Choice is built in there. It's "whosoever will".

 

[ReformedChapin]

Well, I didn't say what you claim because I don't believe it. So, you are misreading me. That's not my problem. It's yours.

Everyone is given a choice, and a choice to reject Jesus Christ is a choice for Satan by default.

We are saved because God saves us, because we have freely come to Christ, accepting His free gift of life. You don't throw a dead man a lifebuoy. You throw a drowning man one, because he is hollering at you, looking to be saved, and he reaches for it, hanging on while he is drawn into the boat.

Ever read John 3:16? Choice is built in there. It's "whosoever will".

It says however belives in Christ, that doesn't imply they have the ability to believe. That's you reading into the text.

 

[Floatingaxe]

It says however belives in Christ, that doesn't imply they have the ability to believe. That's you reading into the text.

Whosoever believes means whosoever believes, has the ability to believe!---NOT ALL. It is written so that an 8-year-old can grasp that.

In fact, this one's a no-brainer---no reading into the text is required....

 

[Zecryphon]

Well, I didn't say what you claim because I don't believe it. So, you are misreading me. That's not my problem. It's yours.

I've already proven that you said we need to choose salvation and we need to choose baptism. You can deny it all you want and you can claim that I'm "misreading" you, but the fact that you said both of these things is pretty easy to see.

Everyone is given a choice, and a choice to reject Jesus Christ is a choice for Satan by default.

I'm sorry but that is not correct. The "choice" you think you make for God is only available after you have been given the gift of faith in Christ for salvation. You are born with a sinful nature. Your actions are dictated by that nature until you are given a new nature by God.

We are saved because God saves us, because we have freely come to Christ, accepting His free gift of life. You don't throw a dead man a lifebuoy. You throw a drowning man one, because he is hollering at you, looking to be saved, and he reaches for it, hanging on while he is drawn into the boat.

Ever read John 3:16? Choice is built in there. It's "whosoever will".

Choice is not built into John 3:16. We believe in Christ because we have been given the gift of faith by God as per Ephesians 2:8-9. You do not freely come to Christ. You said it yourself, you don't throw a dead man a buoy. We are all dead, there is nothing we can do to save ourselves. Read Ephesians 2:1-10. Those verses make it clear that we are dead until God saves us. There is no choice involved in that. God made the decision to save you before the foundations of the world. Scripture is crystal clear on this. It is because of God that you are saved, not because of something you do or because of a choice you make.

 

[Zecryphon]

Whosoever believes means whosoever believes, has the ability to believe!---NOT ALL. It is written so that an 8-year-old can grasp that.

In fact, this one's a no-brainer---no reading into the text is required....

I agree, it's pretty simple to see from the scriptures that God saves us and that we don't make a choice for God. And since it's so simple that an 8-year old can grasp it, how come you don't get it?

 

[ReformedChapin]

Whosoever believes means whosoever believes, has the ability to believe!---NOT ALL. It is written so that an 8-year-old can grasp that.

In fact, this one's a no-brainer---no reading into the text is required....

You are putting your presuppositions into the text. No where in the text does it state that has the ability to believe. It says whoever believes and that's the elect. And there's parts of the bible that 8 year olds will not understand, have them read Revelations.

Obviously you can't understand the text how can 8 year olds?

 

[Floatingaxe]

You are putting your presuppositions into the text. No where in the text does it state that has the ability to believe. It says whoever believes and that's the elect. And there's parts of the bible that 8 year olds will not understand, have them read Revelations.

Obviously you can't understand the text how can 8 year olds?

Every person on the planet has the ability to believe. It is the elect that "elect" to believe, drawn by the Holy Spirit to that place of decision.

8-year-olds can understand salvation. They can grasp much. That is why God's message to us is so simple. It takes a grown-up to complicate it.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Every person on the planet has the ability to believe. It is the elect that "elect" to believe, drawn by the Holy Spirit to that place of decision.

8-year-olds can understand salvation. They can grasp much. That is why God's message to us is so simple. It takes a grown-up to complicate it.

When you find one verse that states that every person in the earth has the ability to believe I believe you. Key word ABILITY... fyi there isn't one verse that states that.

Yes 8 year olds can grasp salvation but not the mode of salvation and they cannot grasp hermeneutics. It's not about adults complicating that it's about maturing in ones faith. I should know, it's took me a while to realize that I have been fed a lie about me contributing to my salvation due to my faith like most contemporary Christianity.

If you want to see scripture that is more clear than anything check out Romans 9:

even before they were born or had done anything good or bad (so that God’s purpose in election 23 would stand, not by works but by 24 his calling)25 –


So then, 30 it does not depend on human desire or exertion, 31 but on God who shows mercy.


9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who has ever resisted his will?” 9:20 But who indeed are you – a mere human being 37 – to talk back to God? 38 Does what is molded say to the molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 39

 

[Floatingaxe]

What's the point in broadening this discussion? Stay on topic.

Everyone can believe, because the gospel message is for everyone. The Holy Spirit leads, but you still have to take that step of faith. That is why God built us with a will all our own.

It's simple.

 

[ReformedChapin]

What's the point in broadening this discussion? Stay on topic.

Everyone can believe, because the gospel message is for everyone. The Holy Spirit leads, but you still have to take that step of faith. That is why God built us with a will all our own.

Again your preconceived notion. But anyways you are right about one thing, this thread has gone off topic. I will stop this now.

 

[Floatingaxe]

There is no preconceived notion, I assure you. I receive what I am speaking from the Word of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

 

[ReformedChapin]

There is no preconceived notion, I assure you. I receive what I am speaking from the Word of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

key word Grace

You have been saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH (when you believed).

Grace saved you, Faith was the mode. Btw I don't know how you justify Romans 9, I will be waiting for a reply. Do it through Pm so we don't further derail this thread.

 

[Floatingaxe]

key word Grace

You have been saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH (when you believed).

Grace saved you, Faith was the mode. Btw I don't know how you justify Romans 9, I will be waiting for a reply. Do it through Pm so we don't further derail this thread.

YES! Not before, not sometime after, not in spite of unbelief, but WHEN YOU BELIEVED, and NOT some other thing we must do--only believe.

 

[ARBITER01]

YES! Not before, not sometime after, not in spite of unbelief, but WHEN YOU BELIEVED, and NOT some other thing we must do--only believe.

Axe, a word to the wise here, you're dealing with institutionalized Christianity in this thread, they do not hold to the scriptures as their only guidance as you and I do, they uplift tradition and church doctrine over them. Any honest point by you will be misconstrued into something else as it will fall upon deaf ears.

You and I may have disagreements over particulars, but we both have reached up and received from HIS sacrifice, it is a done deal for us, so there is no use trying to break a barrier that is not really in our way.

If they wish to believe wrongly about things, let them, many are called but few are chosen. GOD knows who HE can work with and who HE can't, and will make a way accordingly for those whom HE chooses to do things through.

 

[HumbleServant94]

Alright! The main question was if I needed baptism to get into heaven. This is not a debate thread. So no more debates or arguments just answer the question.

 

[Rhamiel]

Alright! The main question was if I needed baptism to get into heaven.

if you have the opertunity yes, if you were never given the opertunity then God will take that into account