Do you consider yourself saved?

[morse86]

Bible also says that the saved cannot go on sinning, for they are born of God (1 John 3 and 5)

Bible states once you believe, the spirit is reborn..the spirit cannot sin. The spirit and the flesh are in constant battle. In Jesus's second comming, the flesh will be changed in a twinkling of an eye and we will be made incorruptible.

Do you want me to really show you the 100's of verses on this? Are you going to actually read your bible or keep listening to your "tv televagelist"?

 

[Bluelion]

Where does it say that love is salvation?

We got verses over and over that state salvation is by faith......not one of them say salvation is by love.

What does the scripture say? Abraham's love is counted on for his righteousness??!?!? Or does it say Abraham's faith is counted on for his righteousness?


The scripture also says God will punish those who loves. Does that mean he will sent the saved to hell? Of course not, it means he will punish the saved in this life if they keep sinning...but he will never send them to hell.

1john 4 NLT

Loving One Another
7 Dear friends, let us continue to love one another, for love comes from God. Anyone who loves is a child of God and knows God. 8 But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

9 God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. 10 This is real love—not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.

11 Dear friends, since God loved us that much, we surely ought to love each other. 12 No one has ever seen God. But if we love each other, God lives in us, and his love is brought to full expression in us.

13 And God has given us his Spirit as proof that we live in him and he in us. 14 Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes and now testify that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 All who declare that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God. 16 We know how much God loves us, and we have put our trust in his love.

God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them. 17 And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we live like Jesus here in this world.

18 Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love. 19 We love each other because he loved us first.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” but hates a fellow believer,[c] that person is a liar; for if we don’t love people we can see, how can we love God, whom we cannot see? 21 And he has given us this command: Those who love God must also love their fellow believers.[d]


Salvation is all about Love.

 

[Bluelion]

Salvation is by faith....not by love. If David loved god so much, why did he go out and commit adultry (among so many other sins)? It was by faith david was saved.

Abraham, if he loved god so much, why did he lie about his wife...why did he disobey god by settling down in a different land with his father, why did did he commit adultry?

What does the scripture say? Abraham was saved by not his love for god, not by his work.....IT WAS BY FAITH.

John doubted that Jesus was the messiah while John was in prison, Peter denied Christ 3 times......was it by love they were saved? NO, IT WAS BY FAITH.


Even Judas Ischariot can love Jesus....hey Jesus gave him the financial matters of his ministry and he stole the money. But we know Judas Ischariot was not saved cause he DID NOT believe.

There is no faith with out Love and no Love with out faith.

 

[morse86]

No one is disputing the fact that God loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.

What we're saying is that you add requirements to salvation...you say salvation is of faith + love. That is works salvation...not grace by faith salvation.

 

[98cwitr]

Bible states once you believe, the spirit is reborn..the spirit cannot sin. The spirit and the flesh are in constant battle. In Jesus's second comming, the flesh will be changed in a twinkling of an eye and we will be made incorruptible.

Do you want me to really show you the 100's of verses on this? Are you going to actually read your bible or keep listening to your "tv televagelist"?

Well I dont listen to Televangelists so that's out...

I do want to see where you think it says that the spirit is reborn and not the person as a whole...and how this means you think you can go on sinning and still be saved. I will also add Hebrews 10:26 to my scripture references for this point.

 

[Bluelion]

No one is disputing the fact that God loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.

What we're saying is that you add requirements to salvation...you say salvation is of faith + love. That is works salvation...not grace by faith salvation.

No what I am saying Is if a person loves God then they have Jesus in there heart because a person can not hate God and be saved.

Demons believe Jesus is the son of God yet can never be saved, so it takes more than believing, It takes loving God. It takes a persons surrendering to God and repenting of sin. Ask a Baptist preacher he will tell you the same. There is a Chaplin on here you can speak with.

 

[98cwitr]

Demons believe Jesus is the son of God yet can never be saved, so it takes more than believing, It takes loving God.

I concur sir. That is the GREATEST commandment of the NT

 

[morse86]

Well I dont listen to Televangelists so that's out...

I do want to see where you think it says that the spirit is reborn and not the person as a whole...and how this means you think you can go on sinning and still be saved. I will also add Hebrews 10:26 to my scripture references for this point.

You're taking hebrews 10:26 WAAYYY out of context. Did you even read the whole chapter?

Hebrews 10:12:
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:14:
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hebrews 10:17:
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:18:
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Hebrews 10:26:
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


Do you not understand what that means? In the old testament, the people could offer up animal sacrifices to forgive the sin (not from hell however). After Jesus Christ died, there is no more animal sacrifices.....if you sin, God will punish you in THIS LIFE....HOWEVER..he will never send you to hell.

 

[Bluelion]

I concur sir. That is the GREATEST commandment of the NT

Finally sanity

 

[Bluelion]

You're taking hebrews 10:26 WAAYYY out of context. Did you even read the whole chapter?

Hebrews 10:12:
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:14:
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hebrews 10:17:
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:18:
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Hebrews 10:26:
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


Do you not understand what that means? In the old testament, the people could offer up animal sacrifices to forgive the sin (not from hell however). After Jesus Christ died, there is no more animal sacrifices.....if you sin, God will punish you in THIS LIFE....HOWEVER..he will never send you to hell.

He is speaking of not temptation to sin but willing seeking sin out and doing it. I don't believe any child of God can do this, but I most say interesting verse to which I do not completely understand nor do I pretend to.

 

[twin1954]

Well I dont listen to Televangelists so that's out...

I do want to see where you think it says that the spirit is reborn and not the person as a whole...and how this means you think you can go on sinning and still be saved. I will also add Hebrews 10:26 to my scripture references for this point.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
(Gal 2:20)

Paul says that he is, rather than was or shall be, crucified with Christ and considers himself dead but alive in Christ. Later in the book he speaks of the spirit and the flesh as separate and at war. Gal. 5:17

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(1Jn 3:9)

Whose seed is it that remains in those who are born of God? Is it not the seed of God the Son? What John is saying is that those who are born of God are spiritually the children of God and cannot sin in the spirit. He speaks to the same issue in Rom. 7.

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
(Eph 4:22-24)

Here Paul speaks of the new man that is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
(2Co 5:17)

Paul speaks of the believer being a new creature rather than an improved or renewed old one. What that means is that we are a whole new creation of God when we are born of God. The old man isn't taken to the hospital to be healed he must be taken to the cross to be crucified.



For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:26)

What the writer to the Hebrews is saying is that if we continue in a sinful lifestyle unchanged from what we are by nature there remaineth no sacrifice for sin. Otherwise both the Scriptures, such as I have already given, and our experience would condemn us all for we all do still sin willfully.

 

[Bluelion]

The key to the verse is at the end of the passage.
Heb 10
39 But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.


He is speaking of those like judas who saw God and the truth and saw salvation however turned away from it, these are the people in Heb 6. Not Children of God turning from faith. They were never saved. Also they are those who Jesus said a pig returns to the mud.

 

[ALoveDivine]

A born-again person can sin, and we do, but we do not practice sin, that's the key word, practice. Unfortunately some modern translations don't include that word, even the king james doesn't, but its there, and the NAS correctly renders it at least.

If I say I'm a practicing doctor, what comes to mind? That I regularly see patients, prescribe medicine, even perform operations right? If I'm a practicing sinner, I sin on the regular, in fact it defines my life and is my practice. Christians are sinners, but we are not practicing sinners. This is the correct understanding of 1 John and what it says about sin in the believers life.

The life of a Christian is not ever characterized by a continual, unrepentant practice of sin. We can fall into sins, and can fall into sinful lifestyles for a season, but we can't stay there. God disciplines those he loves, and he always will restore us.

As far as the love thing goes; we love God because he saved us, we don't love God to get saved. When we get saved, which is through repentance and faith in Christ, we have the love of God shed abroad in our hearts and we love him because of his amazing grace and mercy which he has shown us.

Our fruits also stem from this love which we have for God, both the fruit of the Holy Spirit as described in Galatians 5, and the works that flow from these fruits. Faith alone saves us, but if we truly believe the gospel, then we cannot help but love God for his great and tender mercy!

He is speaking of those like judas who saw God and the truth and saw salvation however turned away from it, these are the people in Heb 6. Not Children of God turning from faith. They were never saved. Also they are those who Jesus said a pig returns to the mud.

On this point we absolutely agree.

The moment you are truly saved, you have eternal life, you are absolutely guaranteed heaven and you shall never perish. From that glorious moment onward you are forever free in Christ, and yes, regardless of your performance. Though you will certainly be a new person.

 

[morse86]

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:26)

What the writer to the Hebrews is saying is that if we continue in a sinful lifestyle unchanged from what we are by nature there remaineth no sacrifice for sin. Otherwise both the Scriptures, such as I have already given, and our experience would condemn us all for we all do still sin willfully.

This is more correct explanation than what I gave and very scriptural. Good job.

 

[98cwitr]

What the writer to the Hebrews is saying is that if we continue in a sinful lifestyle unchanged from what we are by nature there remaineth no sacrifice for sin. Otherwise both the Scriptures, such as I have already given, and our experience would condemn us all for we all do still sin willfully.

And there you have it...the way is narrow and few find it. Let us not try to make excuses. And why I am so surprised as to why so many people think they are saved and are in complete and utter opposition to what the Bible clearly says in both Hebrews and John's 1st letter. You are really having to put a huge spin on it in order to meet your desired understanding.

I do wish (no sarcasm) I could believe it like that, but every time I read those verses it is clear that a truly saved person cannot sin in any form. Hence, I voted 'no.'

 

[98cwitr]

You're taking hebrews 10:26 WAAYYY out of context. Did you even read the whole chapter?

Hebrews 10:12:
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:14:
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hebrews 10:17:
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:18:
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Hebrews 10:26:
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


Do you not understand what that means? In the old testament, the people could offer up animal sacrifices to forgive the sin (not from hell however). After Jesus Christ died, there is no more animal sacrifices.....if you sin, God will punish you in THIS LIFE....HOWEVER..he will never send you to hell.

Yes, I have read the book and chapter multiple times.

Are you promoting universalism?

 

[Bluelion]

And there you have it...the way is narrow and few find it. Let us not try to make excuses. And why I am so surprised as to why so many people think they are saved and are in complete and utter opposition to what the Bible clearly says in both Hebrews and John's 1st letter. You are really having to put a huge spin on it in order to meet your desired understanding.

I do wish (no sarcasm) I could believe it like that, but every time I read those verses it is clear that a truly saved person cannot sin in any form. Hence, I voted 'no.'

That is sad, you know that is not true, we were not removed from the plenty of the Law just to be put back under a Law we could not follow in the first place.


You struggling these days friend?

 

[98cwitr]

That is sad, you know that is not true, we were not removed from the plenty of the Law just to be put back under a Law we could not follow in the first place.


You struggling these days friend?

Oh it's true and you know it! Im talking about the Law of the Spirit...which we ARE UNDER.

These days? I struggle each day. Sadly because my sins, however minor society and peers try and deem them to be, are quite apparent. The loudest sin in my heart is the commandment of "love thy neighbor as thy self" which I read very literally. And while I afford myself and my wife to have a nice home, multiple cars, and prosperity surrounds me, I do nothing but buy the homeless man an occasional sandwich. All my close peers who see this pat me on the back and say "You're a good man." or "That was so nice of you to help him out." NO! Screw that. I could pay for this man to have an apartment! I could buy him a car and a new suit so he could find a job! And yet, they would call me an "enabler." The saddest part...I'd agree with them..."He should earn his own living!" We all say....and I agree, and yet I am convicted. Yall can sit around thinking you're eternally secure. Not me, Bible says Christians cannot sin...and yet every Christian I talk to says they can continue in sin. I hate this religion because it's people make me feel like I am being lied to each day. I love absolution, I love justice, and mercy. I see my hypocrisy for what it is because it defines me, and yet I know Christ hates a hypocrite. And thus my damnation is apparent.

The other big one for me is lust. I am recently married, and yet I long for the faith of those who became eunuchs for the Kingdom of God. What great faith! Bible teaches that it is better to never marry and serve God than to marry, risk adultery of the heart (because just looking upon another woman in lust is adultery), and to have your mind set on your wife and not God. This comes from both the Gospel and Paul's writings. I know without my wife though, I'd be more self-serving than I was prior to her. At least now I have another to serve besides just myself.

 

[Bluelion]

Oh it's true and you know it!

These days? I struggle each day. Sadly because my sins, however minor society and peers try and deem them to be, are quite apparent. The loudest sin in my heart is the commandment of "love thy neighbor as thy self" which I read very literally. And while I afford myself and my wife to have a nice home, multiple cars, and prosperity surrounds me, I do nothing but buy the homeless man an occasional sandwich. All my close peers who see this pat me on the back and say "You're a good man." or "That was so nice of you to help him out." NO! Screw that. I could pay for this man to have an apartment! I could buy him a car and a new suit so he could find a job! And yet, they would call me an "enabler." The saddest part...I'd agree with them..."He should earn his own living!" We all say....and I agree, and yet I am convicted. Yall can sit around thinking you're eternally secure. Not me, Bible says Christians cannot sin...and yet every Christian I talk to says they can continue in sin. I hate this religion because it's people make me feel like I am being lied to each day. I love absolution, I love justice, and mercy. I see my hypocrisy for what it is because it defines me, and yet I know Christ hates a hypocrite. And thus my damnation is apparent.

The enemy is really doing a number on you friend. You had a call by God to do more. That does not mean put a guy in an apartment there are other ways. Help Him get into a shelter, get Him Help. God does not expect you to do it alone, just more. Get the man help don't try to do it all yourself. Buy him a meal Good, contact churches or shelters see if you can't help this guy.

You are having a hard time loving your self so how can you love everyone else as your self?

God loved us in our wicked state, God new we stumble so He free us from plenty of the Law. No where does He say Now Go sin. what he says is repent ask for forgiveness and I will not condemn you.

No child of God like sin.

Your not damned, If you have Jesus in your heart your saved, Learn to truth God have faith in Him, Pray. Have you prayed for this homeless man? Pray.

come on Brother don't lose faith.

Praying for you.

 

[98cwitr]

That's not what the commandment says...it says "love your neighbor as yourself." The key part is "as yourself." Now if I love myself enough to support myself, what does it say if I am not equally willing to support a poor person?

No dude...that's the problem. I do love myself and the life I have!

John 12:25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

If I have Jesus in my heart I wouldn't sin! That's what 1 John 3:9 and 5:18 says!

I have prayed more than the words I have typed in this thread about this very thing, but God doesn't listen to sinners!

John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.