What makes you think Judas believed he was God? Surely none of his disciples believed that they had been following the Almighty God around all that time. That they believed he was the Son of God and the promised Messiah is evident, but that he was Almighty God himself? uh uh. Not so!
How do you know?
Mine was only a take, a speculation. I'm not saying anything that you said was wrong, because I wasn't there so I don't know what they were thinking and I don't pretend to. However, saying that it wasn't so, do you have some kind of special revelation beyond what is in the text? No? Then disagree, but don't say it wasn't so, because you know only as much as we do.
I have a refutation prepared just for that Scripture:If Jesus was God or is God
he would know the hour of the coming of the Lord.
I have a refutation prepared just for that Scripture:
Only the Holy Spirit knows the thoughts of the Father (1 Cor. 2:11). Jesus is identified as the Holy Spirit in 2 Cor. 3:17.
So what you're saying is that god can change into something else and at the same time not change into something else because he is a spirit being and not a material being. Whereas to me saying God can change into something else and at the same time he doesn't change into something else is just a contradiction. If one says god changed to something else, that means he is what he changed to not what he use to be. an irreconsilable point, one that you share with most who believe Jesus is god, and one which us who believe Jesus is not god find to be a contradiction.
Yeah, you're right. And as a matter of fact, I do consider the meaning of the words.and what the text plainly says isn't determined by the meaning of the words use? It doesn't matter what the words people use mean? You aren't concerned with the meaning of the words you used? Either I'm not following you or you haven't thought this one through. If I say "I ran deftly to the store" then it doesn't matter what I consider the word deftly to mean? If you think deftly means fast, it doesn't matter that it doesnt' mean fast? it doesn't matter what deftly means as far as the meaning of my sentence? I can't believe you or anyone believes that. deftly means deterously, or nibbly something like that it doesn't mean fast. so if I meant that i ran deftly and you think it means i ran fast, you have a wrong understanding of my sentence ":I ran deftly to the store". Themeaning of deftly affects the meaning greatly of what I said. .
Yeah, that's what I meant I guess.On the other hand, there are 2 ways of translating a sentence into any language. One way is to translate it in a more literal mannar, and another way is to read a senetence in one language, decide what the person means, and regurgitate the idea in the way we would say it in our language, but the second way, although it might be more accurate than a literal translation, requires some great degree of intepretation. Safer, in my opinion, to stick with the more literal translation, and decide for oneself if the literal translation is accurate, or more interpretative translations are the accurate one. it's a judgement call. Perhaps you meant something along these lines?
I wouldn't say I have Trinitarian bias. I only believe in it because of one Scripture and confirmation from God. I have a Jesus divinity bias, a compulsive desire to prove that Jesus is a Spirit.All of us are biased. whether or not any of us let our bias affect our judgement is a judgement call. my opinion is that sometimes the majority opinion is wrong because their trinitarian bias has affected their judgement adversly. sometimes the minority opiion is wrong because of a bias, sometimes the majority is right in spite of their bias, sometimes the minority is right in spite of thier bias. sometimes both the majority and minority opinion is wrong because of their bias. Depends on the verse under consideration. There is no bible, and no commentary that is totally 100 percent free of any adverse affect due to bias, in my opinion. some just more so than others. I think Rotherhams translation is the lest biased and the best, but he is biased at times and wrong at times when generally less accurate bibles are correct. even extremely liberal bibles are sometimes right when generally more literally accurate translations are wrong. At least that's what I have concluded from my experience with them.
here is the ubs home.
United Bible Societies: About UBS
It's the findings of the United bible Society regarding thier decisions as to what they as a body have decided is the correct reading for verses with variant readings in the Greek Manuscripts. Bruce Metzger, the author of the book, and a member of the committee, just reports the findings of the comittee and sometimes puts in his divirgent opinon where he differs with the majority opinon on any verse. they voted and that's how they decided which was the correct reading. the majority rules. Also they rate the probability of thier choice by rating their choices either A, B, C, or D. A means certain, B means almost certain, C meets considrable doubt, and D means something like just a guess.
Yeah sometimes. I rarely use Strongs though. I only rely it when I'm arguing about Mary and the Holy Spirit, that overshadowing meant the giving of authority over sin so that Mary was enabled to be sinless in that instance.I use Strongs as well, but I have found that it isn't always right. haven't you ever read a definition of a word and thought to yourself, " that don't seem right?" I have. and sometimes further investigation of other sources either confirms my suspicions or denys them.
I might have said what I said earlier because I'm lazy.ok so no need to look up the meaning of words in whatever source to determine if it has been translated correctly. I disagree.
Well, excuse the daylights out of me! How dare I be so presumptive?
But you never said in your post that it was speculation. You also said it as if it were a matter of fact and not speculation.
I also have a refutation for this one.I answered "maybe" because how in the world could I ever know?
There is some indication that he wasn't God. For instance his question from the cross: God, why have you foresaken me?
I also have a refutation for this one.
Jesus repeatedly stated that He was abiding in the Father. According to Scripture, those who continually abide in the Father have His presence with them all the time. Furthermore, Scripture attests that He was obedient to the point of death (Phil. 2:8). Jesus Himself said that He was obeying His Father in laying down His life on His own initiative. In Matt. 26:42, Jesus declares His desire to obey Him. So He knew He was not forsaken (or was John lying when he said that the one who abides in the Father has His presence?). So why the cry of dereliction? Because Jesus was human.
I have a refutation prepared just for that Scripture:
Only the Holy Spirit knows the thoughts of the Father (1 Cor. 2:11). Jesus is identified as the Holy Spirit in 2 Cor. 3:17.
Because Jesus was human.
Calm...
I did not say what I said to you to sound mean or anything. We are all entitled to our opinions here. I have no problem with yours. Hence the wink.
I said it was so in a matter of fact way, and you said it wasn't as a matter of fact. Likely, we're both wrong.
By the way, I find it redundant to say this is just my take on things every time I speak. Of course it's my take, I'm the one saying it.
Chillax, we're all on the same team here.
I suppose I am.1 Cor. 2:11
No one can know a person's thoughts except that person's own spirit, and no one can know God's thoughts except God's own Spirit.
To me this says that no one knows my thoughts but me, and no one knows Gods thoughts but God.
Are you arguing that Jesus is or isn't God?
Ok.OK, got it.
I see you added some more text while I was looking up verses.
I'm still going to stick with maybe. I can only tell you what I think is more likely, and its more likely that he was a man.
No need for suspicion. The only way a person could cheat is if he made another account (which I certainly have not done and certainly will not do).How come , when I count those who commented along with their vote I only count about 80 comments. Not all of those comments are from people who voted "Yes! this is undeniably true", but each time I look at the actual poll numbers it keeps going up for those who believe Jesus is God?
Back to TOPICI suppose I am.Ok. No need for suspicion. The only way a person could cheat is if he made another account (which I certainly have not done and certainly will not do).
He meant breath, indicated by breathed his last.Back to TOPIC
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he breathed out.
WHO but God can die by command,"Father! In your hands, I place my Spirit"; and, in his death, baptize in the Holy Spirit? (Matt. 27: 50-56; Mark 15: 37-41; Luke 23: 46-49; John 19: 30-37; Rom. 6: 3-5)Back to TOPIC
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he breathed out.
In the context of the whole gospel in general and with reference to John 16:32 in particular, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" is nothing but a rhetorical question totally rejecting the sum of unbelief by the people, the chief priests, the teachers of the Law, the elders and one of two bandits crucified with Jesus (Matt. 27: 32-49).I view the words of Jesus, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" to be very much in line with the other things he said. For example, read the words of Christ when he was praying to God in the garden of Gethsemane... "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Mt 26:39 KJV
Jesus was possibly relating to the plight of King David. I believe he very much meant the words that he was saying. For example, he asked God to let that cup pass from him. He preferred not to go to the cross if at all possible, but in the end he wanted to do the will of God. Despite the many temptations Jesus did not act on the weak nature of the body. Instead, he let the Spirit of God lead him.
Jesus was a man just like you and me albeit he was a very unique man, but he was still a man. Now Jesus the Christ is a glorified man in a glorified body. This special man is our Mediator, High Priest, King, Lord, Messiah.
Hosanna! Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord! Mk 11:9
Who? the SON of God, Jesus! No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 10:18WHO but God can die by command,"Father! In your hands, I place my Spirit"; and, in his death, baptize in the Holy Spirit? (Matt. 27: 50-56; Mark 15: 37-41; Luke 23: 46-49; John 19: 30-37; Rom. 6: 3-5)
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