Do you believe Jesus is God?

Do you believe Jesus is God?

  • Yes! This is undeniably true!

  • Yes. This seems to be true.

  • Maybe.

  • No. There is some indication this is false.

  • No! This is undeniably false!


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

cubinity

jesus is; the rest is commentary.
Jun 11, 2010
3,171
403
✟20,090.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
What makes you think Judas believed he was God? Surely none of his disciples believed that they had been following the Almighty God around all that time. That they believed he was the Son of God and the promised Messiah is evident, but that he was Almighty God himself? uh uh. Not so!

How do you know?

Mine was only a take, a speculation. I'm not saying anything that you said was wrong, because I wasn't there so I don't know what they were thinking and I don't pretend to. However, saying that it wasn't so, do you have some kind of special revelation beyond what is in the text? No? Then disagree, but don't say it wasn't so, because you know only as much as we do. ;)
 
Upvote 0

Evergreen48

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2006
2,300
150
✟17,819.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
How do you know?

Mine was only a take, a speculation. I'm not saying anything that you said was wrong, because I wasn't there so I don't know what they were thinking and I don't pretend to. However, saying that it wasn't so, do you have some kind of special revelation beyond what is in the text? No? Then disagree, but don't say it wasn't so, because you know only as much as we do. ;)

Well, excuse the daylights out of me! How dare I be so presumptive?

But you never said in your post that it was speculation. You also said it as if it were a matter of fact and not speculation.
 
Upvote 0

Jpark

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2008
5,019
181
✟13,882.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If Jesus was God or is God

he would know the hour of the coming of the Lord.:thumbsup:
I have a refutation prepared just for that Scripture:

Only the Holy Spirit knows the thoughts of the Father (1 Cor. 2:11). Jesus is identified as the Holy Spirit in 2 Cor. 3:17.
 
Upvote 0

Samuel Coleridge

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2010
495
11
✟720.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
I have a refutation prepared just for that Scripture:

Only the Holy Spirit knows the thoughts of the Father (1 Cor. 2:11). Jesus is identified as the Holy Spirit in 2 Cor. 3:17.

Jesus had the Holy Ghost with out measure.

So much for your theory.:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

Jpark

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2008
5,019
181
✟13,882.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
So what you're saying is that god can change into something else and at the same time not change into something else because he is a spirit being and not a material being. Whereas to me saying God can change into something else and at the same time he doesn't change into something else is just a contradiction. If one says god changed to something else, that means he is what he changed to not what he use to be. an irreconsilable point, one that you share with most who believe Jesus is god, and one which us who believe Jesus is not god find to be a contradiction.
:scratch:

and what the text plainly says isn't determined by the meaning of the words use? It doesn't matter what the words people use mean? You aren't concerned with the meaning of the words you used? Either I'm not following you or you haven't thought this one through. If I say "I ran deftly to the store" then it doesn't matter what I consider the word deftly to mean? If you think deftly means fast, it doesn't matter that it doesnt' mean fast? it doesn't matter what deftly means as far as the meaning of my sentence? I can't believe you or anyone believes that. deftly means deterously, or nibbly something like that it doesn't mean fast. so if I meant that i ran deftly and you think it means i ran fast, you have a wrong understanding of my sentence ":I ran deftly to the store". Themeaning of deftly affects the meaning greatly of what I said. .
Yeah, you're right. And as a matter of fact, I do consider the meaning of the words.

For instance, Scripture reveals there is more than one punishment. Matt. 18:34-35 clearly indicates eternal torture. 2 Thess. 1:9, eternal destruction, refers to those who oppose Jesus in His coming. Rev. 14:10 is for those who receive the mark.

And also, in 2 Thess. 1:9, presence literally means face.

On the other hand, there are 2 ways of translating a sentence into any language. One way is to translate it in a more literal mannar, and another way is to read a senetence in one language, decide what the person means, and regurgitate the idea in the way we would say it in our language, but the second way, although it might be more accurate than a literal translation, requires some great degree of intepretation. Safer, in my opinion, to stick with the more literal translation, and decide for oneself if the literal translation is accurate, or more interpretative translations are the accurate one. it's a judgement call. Perhaps you meant something along these lines?
Yeah, that's what I meant I guess.

All of us are biased. whether or not any of us let our bias affect our judgement is a judgement call. my opinion is that sometimes the majority opinion is wrong because their trinitarian bias has affected their judgement adversly. sometimes the minority opiion is wrong because of a bias, sometimes the majority is right in spite of their bias, sometimes the minority is right in spite of thier bias. sometimes both the majority and minority opinion is wrong because of their bias. Depends on the verse under consideration. There is no bible, and no commentary that is totally 100 percent free of any adverse affect due to bias, in my opinion. some just more so than others. I think Rotherhams translation is the lest biased and the best, but he is biased at times and wrong at times when generally less accurate bibles are correct. even extremely liberal bibles are sometimes right when generally more literally accurate translations are wrong. At least that's what I have concluded from my experience with them.

here is the ubs home.

United Bible Societies: About UBS


It's the findings of the United bible Society regarding thier decisions as to what they as a body have decided is the correct reading for verses with variant readings in the Greek Manuscripts. Bruce Metzger, the author of the book, and a member of the committee, just reports the findings of the comittee and sometimes puts in his divirgent opinon where he differs with the majority opinon on any verse. they voted and that's how they decided which was the correct reading. the majority rules. Also they rate the probability of thier choice by rating their choices either A, B, C, or D. A means certain, B means almost certain, C meets considrable doubt, and D means something like just a guess.
I wouldn't say I have Trinitarian bias. I only believe in it because of one Scripture and confirmation from God. I have a Jesus divinity bias, a compulsive desire to prove that Jesus is a Spirit.

Tell me more about this Rotherhams translation. Is it a Alexandrian type text? Is it like the Codex Sinaiticus?

Intresting. I'll take a look at ubs.

I use Strongs as well, but I have found that it isn't always right. haven't you ever read a definition of a word and thought to yourself, " that don't seem right?" I have. and sometimes further investigation of other sources either confirms my suspicions or denys them.
Yeah sometimes. I rarely use Strongs though. I only rely it when I'm arguing about Mary and the Holy Spirit, that overshadowing meant the giving of authority over sin so that Mary was enabled to be sinless in that instance.

ok so no need to look up the meaning of words in whatever source to determine if it has been translated correctly. I disagree.
I might have said what I said earlier because I'm lazy.
 
Upvote 0

cubinity

jesus is; the rest is commentary.
Jun 11, 2010
3,171
403
✟20,090.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Well, excuse the daylights out of me! How dare I be so presumptive?

But you never said in your post that it was speculation. You also said it as if it were a matter of fact and not speculation.

Calm...

I did not say what I said to you to sound mean or anything. We are all entitled to our opinions here. I have no problem with yours. Hence the wink.

I said it was so in a matter of fact way, and you said it wasn't as a matter of fact. Likely, we're both wrong.

By the way, I find it redundant to say this is just my take on things every time I speak. Of course it's my take, I'm the one saying it.

Chillax, we're all on the same team here.
 
Upvote 0

Jpark

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2008
5,019
181
✟13,882.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I answered "maybe" because how in the world could I ever know?

There is some indication that he wasn't God. For instance his question from the cross: God, why have you foresaken me?
I also have a refutation for this one.

Jesus repeatedly stated that He was abiding in the Father (i.e. John 15:10, John 17:21). According to Scripture, those who continually abide in the Father have His presence with them all the time (John 14:17, 1 John 3:24). Furthermore, Scripture attests that He was obedient to the point of death (Phil. 2:8). Jesus Himself said that He was obeying His Father in laying down His life on His own initiative (John 10:18). In Matt. 26:42, Jesus declares His desire to obey Him. So He knew He was not forsaken (or was John lying when he said that the one who abides in the Father has His presence?).

John 14:17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

1 John 3:24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

So why the cry of dereliction? Because Jesus was human.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Samuel Coleridge

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2010
495
11
✟720.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
I also have a refutation for this one.

Jesus repeatedly stated that He was abiding in the Father. According to Scripture, those who continually abide in the Father have His presence with them all the time. Furthermore, Scripture attests that He was obedient to the point of death (Phil. 2:8). Jesus Himself said that He was obeying His Father in laying down His life on His own initiative. In Matt. 26:42, Jesus declares His desire to obey Him. So He knew He was not forsaken (or was John lying when he said that the one who abides in the Father has His presence?). So why the cry of dereliction? Because Jesus was human.

What exactly are you refuting?:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

xpatriot

Newbie
Jan 23, 2011
52
1
✟7,678.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
I have a refutation prepared just for that Scripture:

Only the Holy Spirit knows the thoughts of the Father (1 Cor. 2:11). Jesus is identified as the Holy Spirit in 2 Cor. 3:17.

1 Cor. 2:11
No one can know a person's thoughts except that person's own spirit, and no one can know God's thoughts except God's own Spirit.

To me this says that no one knows my thoughts but me, and no one knows Gods thoughts but God.

Are you arguing that Jesus is or isn't God?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

xpatriot

Newbie
Jan 23, 2011
52
1
✟7,678.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Because Jesus was human.

OK, got it.
I see you added some more text while I was looking up verses.

I'm still going to stick with maybe. I can only tell you what I think is more likely, and its more likely that he was a man.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Evergreen48

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2006
2,300
150
✟17,819.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Calm...

I did not say what I said to you to sound mean or anything. We are all entitled to our opinions here. I have no problem with yours. Hence the wink.

I said it was so in a matter of fact way, and you said it wasn't as a matter of fact. Likely, we're both wrong.

By the way, I find it redundant to say this is just my take on things every time I speak. Of course it's my take, I'm the one saying it.

Chillax, we're all on the same team here.
:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

Evergreen48

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2006
2,300
150
✟17,819.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
How come , when I count those who commented along with their vote I only count about 80 comments. Not all of those comments are from people who voted "Yes! this is undeniably true", but each time I look at the actual poll numbers it keeps going up for those who believe Jesus is God? :confused:
 
Upvote 0

Jpark

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2008
5,019
181
✟13,882.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
1 Cor. 2:11
No one can know a person's thoughts except that person's own spirit, and no one can know God's thoughts except God's own Spirit.

To me this says that no one knows my thoughts but me, and no one knows Gods thoughts but God.

Are you arguing that Jesus is or isn't God?
I suppose I am.

OK, got it.
I see you added some more text while I was looking up verses.

I'm still going to stick with maybe. I can only tell you what I think is more likely, and its more likely that he was a man.
Ok.

How come , when I count those who commented along with their vote I only count about 80 comments. Not all of those comments are from people who voted "Yes! this is undeniably true", but each time I look at the actual poll numbers it keeps going up for those who believe Jesus is God? :confused:
No need for suspicion. The only way a person could cheat is if he made another account (which I certainly have not done and certainly will not do).
 
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I suppose I am.Ok. No need for suspicion. The only way a person could cheat is if he made another account (which I certainly have not done and certainly will not do).
Back to TOPIC
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he breathed out.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
W

Woldeyesus

Guest
Back to TOPIC
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he breathed out.
WHO but God can die by command,"Father! In your hands, I place my Spirit"; and, in his death, baptize in the Holy Spirit? (Matt. 27: 50-56; Mark 15: 37-41; Luke 23: 46-49; John 19: 30-37; Rom. 6: 3-5)
 
Upvote 0
W

Woldeyesus

Guest
I view the words of Jesus, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" to be very much in line with the other things he said. For example, read the words of Christ when he was praying to God in the garden of Gethsemane... "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Mt 26:39 KJV

Jesus was possibly relating to the plight of King David. I believe he very much meant the words that he was saying. For example, he asked God to let that cup pass from him. He preferred not to go to the cross if at all possible, but in the end he wanted to do the will of God. Despite the many temptations Jesus did not act on the weak nature of the body. Instead, he let the Spirit of God lead him.

Jesus was a man just like you and me albeit he was a very unique man, but he was still a man. Now Jesus the Christ is a glorified man in a glorified body. This special man is our Mediator, High Priest, King, Lord, Messiah.

Hosanna! Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord! Mk 11:9
In the context of the whole gospel in general and with reference to John 16:32 in particular, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" is nothing but a rhetorical question totally rejecting the sum of unbelief by the people, the chief priests, the teachers of the Law, the elders and one of two bandits crucified with Jesus (Matt. 27: 32-49).

As to the scene in the garden of Gethsemane, it is highly instructive (although controversial) to check out the clear conflicts in the pictures of Jesus, on the one hand, in the hearsay accounts of Matthew, Mark and Luke; and, on the other hand, in the sole eyewitness account of John. The choice is yours!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
WHO but God can die by command,"Father! In your hands, I place my Spirit"; and, in his death, baptize in the Holy Spirit? (Matt. 27: 50-56; Mark 15: 37-41; Luke 23: 46-49; John 19: 30-37; Rom. 6: 3-5)
Who? the SON of God, Jesus! No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 10:18
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.