Do you Believe Homosexuality is Inborn or Learned?

[Ohioprof]

Dear Satori,
Quote:
No I disagree entirely. Firstly, those Christians, (thousands in the world) who come out and profess their faith end up either in danger, in prison or dead. ‘Gays’ have it relatively easy, (I see you assume people are gay rather than just having a same-sex attraction) Furthermore I would dispute that having same-sex attraction is any more a challenge than anything else, especially the greed for wealth.

yes I take your point, in many parts of the world homosexuals are imprisoned and killed for coming out. However whilst I therefore agree that the sacrifice of homosexuals coming out can be as great as the sacrifice of Christians coming out, in short ones life, the sacrifice as a Christian therefore of not having same-sex sex is a good deal less than loosing ones life, which was part of my point. For the rich man who Jesus told one thing you lack, wealth was the biggest sacrifice.

If you think gays have it "relatively easy," then you should try living as a gay person for a year, and then come back and tell us that it is "relatively easy."

You should be careful, my friend, not to make pronouncements about other people's lives when you don't know what they are really like.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

If you think gays have it "relatively easy," then you should try living as a gay person for a year, and then come back and tell us that it is "relatively easy."

Well firstly the comparison was with those who go to prison or die for their faith. I think in principle I would prefer living as a gay person than dying, wouldnt you, though I wouldnt want to commit sin willfully either as thats a barrier to the Kingdom.
But you shoud try living as a Christian for a year and then come back and tell us whether its easier or not.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,
Well firstly the comparison was with those who go to prison or die for their faith. I think in principle I would prefer living as a gay person than dying, wouldnt you, though I wouldnt want to commit sin willfully either as thats a barrier to the Kingdom.
But you shoud try living as a Christian for a year and then come back and tell us whether its easier or not.

I do live as a Christian.

 

[Ohioprof]

In answer to your question, which is harder, being a Christian or being gay, that's an odd comparison to make. Being a Christian is a choice. Being gay is not a choice. I simply am gay.

I think that living as a Christian and living according to what I see as Christian values, according to the teachings of Jesus is very hard. It's very challenging. But it's a good challenge, and one I willingly take up in my life. I do my best every day to live according to my faith.

Being gay is simply part of who I am, a characteristic of me. The challenge there is to continue living as myself, openly, in the face of still widespread hostility and opposition to who I am.

In terms of simply being able to live openly as a Christian and openly as a gay person in the United States, without harassment or persecution, it's much easier to live openly as a Christian. As a Christian I do not face persecution in the United States. As a Christian, I belong to the majority, the dominant faith. I can say, "I am a Christian," and I do not risk my life. I can say, "I am a Christian," and I do not risk losing my job. I can say, "I am a Christian," and most people respond with, "So am I." That is not the case with being gay. I have had to struggle all my life with the persecution and discrimination that come with being openly gay. Things have gotten better for gay people in this country....there is no doubt of that. I face less hostility. I live less in fear than I once did.

Both roads are hard, but one, the Christian road, is hard because we choose it. The other, the gay road, is hard because we did not choose it, and because other people still treat us as pariahs and still threaten our lives and our livelihoods. In my view, being gay and being Christian are not mutually exclusive, and some of the strongest Christians are gay Christians.

Being a Christian is hard for different reasons than being gay is hard. It's hard to be a Christian and live up to the standards I set for myself through my faith. But as a Christian in the United States, I experience support, not persecution. As a gay person, most of the support I have experienced has come from other gay people. However, things have improved for gay people, and I now experience a lot of support from heterosexual allies, often from heterosexual Christian allies of gay people. I hope you will be one of those allies as well.

 

[naotmaa]

No I disagree entirely. Firstly, those Christians, (thousands in the world) who come out and profess their faith end up either in danger, in prison or dead. ‘Gays’ have it relatively easy, (I see you assume people are gay rather than just having a same-sex attraction)

I'm afraid I would have to disagree with this. Yes there are parts of the world where being a Christian is very dangerous and can certainly lead to death. However, the same goes for gays as well. In many middle eastern countries, the punishment for homosexuality is death. So I think both groups have it pretty hard. Regardless, I really don't like comparing one's suffering to another. It is still suffering and incredibly sad for the person who must experience it.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Why? I see both things as exactly the same... If it doesn't cause harm, there are no reasons why it would be wrong.

I don't think its anymore harmful than a committed monogamous heterosexual relationship either. To assume that there are no reasons why it would be wrong would mean that you are at God's level of morality.

Although the words are debated constantly, the only time that anything remotely regarding homosexuality is mentioned in the bible, it is always in a negative light.

 

[RMDY]

You know, I'm not going to call anyone out on what they do. I'm not going to get into an arguing match about what is sinful and what isn't, but, I believe some of you use poor judgement to discern things. Seriously. When I hear stuff, and I won't name names, about prostitution not being a sin as long as two people agree to do it, that is just poor judgement.

 

[Shredhead]

It's a sin , & like all sin , it's a choice .

 

[Katie7725]

I am bisexual and I can firmly say that it is NOT a choice, Ive been more attracted to females all my life. I get insulted and discriminated on a daily basis, do you think I would choose to be this way? I find it funny how people will listen to everyone but the person who is homosexual. Again it is not a choice and anyone that is homosexual will agree with me. Unless you are you really have no idea what you are talking about because you have no idea what it is like.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

I am bisexual and I can firmly say that it is NOT a choice, Ive been more attracted to females all my life. I get insulted and discriminated on a daily basis, do you think I would choose to be this way? I find it funny how people will listen to everyone but the person who is homosexual. Again it is not a choice and anyone that is homosexual will agree with me. Unless you are you really have no idea what you are talking about because you have no idea what it is like.

I understand what you are saying, I don't think anyone consciously chooses what gender they are attracted to. The issue is more on whether someone is born with that attraction or if it is learned. Many homosexuals on here claim that they were always gay, although I myself can't recall anything at all during my time as an infant. On the other side of the argument is that the natural reproductive instinct of a person is misguided, or changed, due to some other factor after birth.

Honestly I don' t think there is any solid evidence either way.

 

[Shredhead]

I am bisexual and I can firmly say that it is NOT a choice, Ive been more attracted to females all my life. I get insulted and discriminated on a daily basis, do you think I would choose to be this way? I find it funny how people will listen to everyone but the person who is homosexual. Again it is not a choice and anyone that is homosexual will agree with me. Unless you are you really have no idea what you are talking about because you have no idea what it is like.

My post was not meant to offend anyone , although I can see how it might , so please accept my sincere apology .
While I have never been homosexual , I have , & do , experience sin , which does qualify me to comment . If you're not happy with the way you are , join the club . But like all proactive Christians that take responsibility for their sin , we've been given a way to change , a choice , through Christ , if we want it .

 

[MrPirate]

If it's inborn, why hasn't anyone found the genes for it?

Why has no one found the gene for dark skin?
Why has no one found the gene for left-handedness?
Why has no one found the gene for blue eyes?


BTW…inborn and genetic are not the same things

They've been desperately searching...

no they havn't

There's just as much evidence for it being environment. No one has PROOF either way really.

There is actually no evidence that homosexuality is environmental in origin.

If you know of a legitimately published study providing such evidence I would be very happy to learn of it.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I do not know, but I'd like to think it's a mixture of both.

 

[MrPirate]

#1... I would think it remarkable that no studies exist to show that sexual preferences bear no relationship to learned behavior. More could be said. However, that's just outside the range of logic. Homosexuality would be universally accepted by all as "normal"... were it truly scientifically proven beyond any reasonable doubt for it impossible to be learned.

Yet the fact remains there exists no evidence to support the idea that homosexuality is “learned” or environmental in nature.


None

I did a quick online search. Please see "Family Research Institute" and others. A quick online search reveals it's absolutely false to say no studies exist on "the other side".

Just so you are aware. The Family Research institute was founded by Paul Cameron after he was expelled from the American Psychiatric Association for ethics violation. He fabricated research data on homosexuals and misrepresented the legitimate research of others. Since his expulsion Cameron has continued to make update and misrepresent legitimate scientists to further his agenda.

But that doesn't make all behavior equal.

Since when is sexual orientation a “behavior”?

What are the consequences of telling someone their behavior is inborn... there is nothing wrong with it... if indeed it is born of insecurity and low-self-esteem?

It seems that it is prejudice and hatred against homosexuals that is born of personal insecurity

Are we truly really helping people if we encourage them to explore tendencies driven by woundedness... if that is the case?

What is truly "whole"??

And what is truly the most loving course???

What you are expressing is the antithesis of love

And how do we express love and support to those who may want to "outgrow" homosexual tendencies??

Outgrow?

Hmmm….maybe in the same way we express love and support to those who may want to "outgrow" being black.

What is the truth...and how do we speak it in love??

The truth remains. There exists extensive evidence that sexual orientation is inborn. AND there exists no evidence that sexual oriention is learned or the result of any social, psychological or familial factor.

I am sorry you do not like the truth…but that does not change it

 

[MrPirate]

Dear *Starlight*
Ah but does it? As there is no scientific agreement, the evidence is that people feel it, and I am not disputing that is genuine.

No, the evidence is that it is inborn

Ah now that is evidently false according to different testimonies.

Testimony is hardly proof of anything.

If it were then the testimony of the hundreds if not thousands of individuals who have been abducted by UFO’s and subjected to sexually based experiments would be proof positive of the existence of extraterrestrials. Especially in the light of the superior testimony of UFO abductees as compared to the waffling of “ex-gay” testimonies

On the contrary, not if they choose to be homosexual or heterosexual, which we have established is possible.

When did “we” establish that?

 

[MrPirate]

To assert that it supposedly doesn't cause any harm is one thing, but then to say its not wrong in any way is another.

Take your statement here and apply it to racial equality rather than sexual oriention.

 

[MrPirate]

It's a sin , & like all sin , it's a choice .

Not a sin. But discrimination against people because they are different is a sin.


And the only choice homosexuals have is to choose to live honestly and openly in the face of those who choose hate

 

[HaloHope]

Been thinking about this a lot over the last few days and while I believe that sexuality is inborn with the potential to be slightly influenced by growing up, Ive come to the conclusion that I dont actually care either way. I love my girlfreind, she loves me, we are very happy together... thats about all there is too, and as Im very happy I have no reason to particularly care about why I love her so much.

 

[Katie7725]

I had some stuff happen to me when i was a child that reinforced my orientation. I guess I think it is mostly inborn but your environment can play a role too.

 

[tulc]

To be honest we are all influenced by both, don't you think? we have no control over somethings, and our environment influences what we find attractive. Does that make sense? I have certain things hardwired into my brain that I couldn't change if I wanted to. But there are somethings I like that are learned from being raised how/where I was. Sexuality is never as simple as some people make it out to be. (IMHO)
tulc(finds coffee helps)