Do you agree with this statement?

[Albion]

I also seem to recall Scripture calling the Church the Body of Christ.

It only seems strange because you are confusing the literal sense with the figurative sense.
Let's be sensible.

And if we were to speak of the "body of evidence," who would its mother be, I wonder?

 

[mmksparbud]

Mary is the mother of Christ the man--not Christ the Divine --He was the Son of God looooong before Mary. The divine has no earthly mother. Christ is equal with God--Mary is not equal with Christ, and certainly not with God--it's not even remotely possible. Again, as a chosen vessel of God to have carried the human son of God and raised Him to manhood demands a position of high respect--not adoration. She raised the human, God raised the divine.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Mary is the mother of Christ the man--not Christ the Divine --He was the Son of God looooong before Mary. The divine has no earthly mother. Christ is equal with God--Mary is not equal with Christ, and certainly not with God--it's not even remotely possible. Again, as a chosen vessel of God to have carried the human son of God and raised Him to manhood demands a position of high respect--not adoration. She raised the human, God raised the divine.

There is a problem with the statement in bold text in the quote. Mary gave birth of one person, the Lord, and he is both a man and God. Mary's relative, Elizabeth, said "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord." So even before the Lord was born he was recognised by Elizabeth as being the child of Mary.

 

[Targaryen]

There is a problem with the statement in bold text in the quote. Mary gave birth of one person, the Lord, and he is both a man and God. Mary's relative, Elizabeth, said "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord." So even before the Lord was born he was recognised by Elizabeth as being the child of Mary.

Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Why does this make me feel like saying a Hail Mary?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Why does this make me feel like saying a Hail Mary?

I reckon it is because it is in the hail Mary

Most of the hail Mary is from the first chapter of saint Luke's gospel.

"Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women." said the angel in verse 28.

"and blessed is the fruit of your womb." said Elizabeth as the Holy Spirit filled her.

And finally the authors of the Marian prayer added the word "Jesus"

And the short petition "Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death".

 

[Targaryen]

I reckon it is because it is in the hail Mary

Most of the hail Mary is from the first chapter of saint Luke's gospel.

"Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women." said the angel in verse 28.

"and blessed is the fruit of your womb." said Elizabeth as the Holy Spirit filled her.

And finally the authors of the Marian prayer added the word "Jesus"

And the short petition "Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death".

I was being slightly facetious there

 

[MoreCoffee]

I was being slightly facetious there

I noticed, but the opportunity to teach was there so I took it

 

[mmksparbud]

There is a problem with the statement in bold text in the quote. Mary gave birth of one person, the Lord, and he is both a man and God. Mary's relative, Elizabeth, said "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord." So even before the Lord was born he was recognised by Elizabeth as being the child of Mary.

Of course they're in the same body---but Christ the Divine Son of God existed way, way , way before there was a Mary, she did not give birth to that!! She is in no way equal with God, never will be! Christ was both divine and human, yes, but she couldn't give birth to the Divine that always was. She is not the mother of that one--He is the begotten Son of God, not of Mary. He did not loose that divinity in her womb, it was always there, she was the vessel for the reborn Christ, not the mother of the divine!

 

[James Is Back]

Ok we all agree Mary gave birth to Christ now let's leave it at that and go get drunk on German beer and pretzels!!!

 

[mmksparbud]

Make mine milk, please----non-fat.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Of course they're in the same body---but Christ the Divine Son of God existed way, way , way before there was a Mary, she did not give birth to that!! She is in no way equal with God, never will be! Christ was both divine and human, yes, but she couldn't give birth to the Divine that always was. She is not the mother of that one--He is the begotten Son of God, not of Mary. He did not loose that divinity in her womb, it was always there, she was the vessel for the reborn Christ, not the mother of the divine!

There is no "they" about the person of Jesus Christ, it is "he" who was born not "they. And no, it is not true that "Christ" existed before he was born of Mary, it is God the Son who is eternal, Jesus the Christ was born in time, the son of Mary, in Bethlehem when Herod the Great was king.

All the talk about Mary being equal to God in the quote above stems from not rightly stating the doctrine of the incarnation. What we see in the quote is Nestorianism. An ancient heresy advanced by Nestorius, Patriarch of Constantinople. Nestorius was Patriarch from 428 AD until 431 AD. His teaching emphasises the disunion between the human and divine natures of Jesus Christ. That's just like the doctrine we see in the quote above.

I may be wrong but I think that the Seventh Day Adventist church rejects Nestorianism.

 

[mmksparbud]

There is no "they" about the person of Jesus Christ, it is "he" who was born not "they. And no, it is not true that "Christ" existed before he was born of Mary, it is God the Son who is eternal, Jesus the Christ was born in time, the son of Mary, in Bethlehem when Herod the Great was king.

All the talk about Mary being equal to God in the quote above stems from not rightly stating the doctrine of the incarnation. What we see in the quote is Nestorianism. An ancient heresy advanced by Nestorius, Patriarch of Constantinople. Nestorius was Patriarch from 428 AD until 431 AD. His teaching emphasises the disunion between the human and divine natures of Jesus Christ. That's just like the doctrine we see in the quote above.

I may be wrong but I think that the Seventh Day Adventist church rejects Nestorianism.

Are you saying there was no Christ, Son of God before His birth to Mary or is my failure to use the right "God" term the problem? Jesus always was--He was the I am, it is He who created the earth--without Him there was nothing made, in the beginning was the Word, and so on--Are you saying that isn't true?? Just want to make sure I am not misunderstanding.
If Jesus was the creator of all--how could Mary have given birth to Him before she was even born??? Jesus was born to Mary fully human and fully divine. But Mary did not give birth to the Jesus that was from eternity--yes, same person, 2 different natures. That does in no way make her divine--just terribly, terribly honored and blessed. She was conceived of a man and a woman---Christ, her son, was not. The only virgin birth is Christ, not Mary. Her mother was not a virgin at her birth, nor was her mother before her. Only one divine birth with a human nature, but not from a male sperm and female egg as Mary was.
Sorry--never heard of Nestorius. In fact, never heard any SDA mention that name. either.

 

[Targaryen]

Sorry--never heard of Nestorius. In fact, never heard any SDA mention that name. either.

Probably a good reason to read more of the early church fathers and less EGW. Might help in the understanding of the concept of Mother of God.

 

[mmksparbud]

Probably a good reason to read more of the early church fathers and less EGW. Might help in the understanding of the concept of Mother of God.

What concept can make a human the Mother of a divine being that was always in existence? She was the mother in that she carried the eternal God in her womb--she was the surrogate mother. How is some early church father going to change that--nor can EGW. It was her womb that housed Him, her blood that fed Him in her womb, it was not her egg and the sperm of God that created Him. Essentially, God implanted an embryonic Jesus in her womb--for want of better language. And that is a supreme honor given to no one else.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Sorry--never heard of Nestorius. In fact, never heard any SDA mention that name. either.

Ask your pastor about Nestorianism. And ask him if the SDA church teaches or rejects Nestorianism.

 

[prodromos]

What concept can make a human the Mother of a divine being that was always in existence?

The concept is an ancient one which usually goes by the name of "motherhood". The only difference with Mary's motherhood of Jesus the Son of God is that He existed before taking on flesh from His mother. Almost everyone else only came into existence at the moment of their conception.

She was the mother in that she carried the eternal God in her womb--she was the surrogate mother.

She was and is His mother, not a surrogate mother, because if He did not receive His flesh from Mary then His flesh would not have been our flesh which He took to the grave and raised back to life. To deny Mary's motherhood is to deny His humanity and bring our salvation to nought.

It was her womb that housed Him, her blood that fed Him in her womb, it was not her egg and the sperm of God that created Him. Essentially, God implanted an embryonic Jesus in her womb--for want of better language.

If that was true then we would have no hope of the resurrection. By taking on "our" flesh from His mother Mary, He was able to destroy the hold that death had over all of humanity.

 

[Rick Otto]

Of course she was His mother...biologically, not spiritually.
That's where the reality of her being His mother ends and the "concept of motherhood" "developes" into radical abstractions that turn scripture on its head.

 

[mmksparbud]

The concept is an ancient one which usually goes by the name of "motherhood". The only difference with Mary's motherhood of Jesus the Son of God is that He existed before taking on flesh from His mother. Almost everyone else only came into existence at the moment of their conception.

She was and is His mother, not a surrogate mother, because if He did not receive His flesh from Mary then His flesh would not have been our flesh which He took to the grave and raised back to life. To deny Mary's motherhood is to deny His humanity and bring our salvation to nought.

If that was true then we would have no hope of the resurrection. By taking on "our" flesh from His mother Mary, He was able to destroy the hold that death had over all of humanity.

Female egg + male sperm=child. The Holy Spirit created the human flesh of the embryonic Jesus, Mary did not create Jesus, she carried Him in her womb. "She was found with child of the Holy Spirit."---"For that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." Surrogate mother. The creation of the human Jesus is through the power of the Holy Spirit. Today, an embryo may be implanted into the womb of another woman--the Holy Spirit needed no medical instruments for this procedure, the power to take a Divine being being and transform Him into an human embryo was not of Mary. Being a surrogate mother to the Son of God is a supreme honor enough for anyone, but she did not create Him--the Holy Spirit did.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Of course she was His mother...biologically, not spiritually.
That's where the reality of her being His mother ends and the "concept of motherhood" "developes" into radical abstractions that turn scripture on its head.

 

[barryatlake]

Luke 1:42 - "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus." The phrase "blessed are you among women" really means "you are most blessed of all women." A circumlocution is used because there is no superlative in the Greek language. Note also that Elizabeth praises Mary first, and then Jesus. This is hyperdulia (but not latria which is worship owed to God alone). We too can go through Mary to praise Jesus. Finally, Catholics repeat these divinely inspired words of Elizabeth in the Rosary.

Luke 1:43 - Elizabeth's use of "Mother of my Lord" (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used "Adonai" which means Lord God) is the equivalent of "Holy Mary, Mother of God" which Catholics pray in the Rosary. The formula is simple: Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus' Mother, so Mary is the mother of God (Mary is not just the Mother of Jesus' human nature - mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

Luke 1:44 - Mary's voice causes John the Baptist to leap for joy in Elizabeth's womb. Luke is teaching us that Mary is our powerful intercessor.

Luke 1:46 - Mary claims that her soul magnifies the Lord. This is a bold statement from a young Jewish girl from Nazareth. Her statement is a strong testimony to her uniqueness. Mary, as our Mother and intercessor, also magnifies our prayers.

compliments of JohnSalza@catholicscripture.com