Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[Zeek]

(p.s. for Summa, my reply is to the title of the thread itself rather than the OP).

no, Christians should not keep all 613 laws. Even a Jew cannot keep all 613 laws. Even Jesus could not keep all 613 laws.

Questions like this actually indicate a lack of awareness generally as to the nature of the law, the scope of the law, the intent of the law and the duration of the law!

All the above can actually be answered by reading the Torah, unfortunately many Christians find it boring, intimidating or simply old, replaced by something better.


Steve

Spot on CL.

 

[Zeek]

actually none of these things Jesus did broke anything.

Jesus broke extra-biblical customs around the Sabbath in the context of healing (see tractate Shabbat in Mishnah)

Jesus touched a leper and women with blood... this is not the direct breaking of a command at all, in fact the Torah lays down specific rules what to do on these occasions.


Steve

p.s. if Jesus deliberately broke any of the commandments, then he is not my spotless ram who takes away my sin, nor my spotless lamb who redeems me!

A double-whammy.

 

[Emmy]

Dear SummaScriptura. I am sure that Jesus in His Love for us gave us two Commandments, and told us: " on these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." 1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour as ourselves. They say it all, Love changes all wrong-doings and wrong-sayings, into God-approving behaviour. Selfless Love, pure and straightforward, achieves all, and changes wrong to right. It might take time but will never be in vain, or without conquering all which can be thrown at us. God is Love and He made us in His image. We are the only beings in this Universe who can think and reason, we know the difference between selfless Love and selfish desires. We have been given enough time to show God that we are true children/sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father, OR NOT. We have Jesus to help and guide us, and the Holy Spirit to empower us with His Love. Jesus died that we might live, He is our Saviour and The Way back to where we came from. Jesus told us to " ask and we will receive," He also taught us to pray: " Father forgive us our trespasses as we will forgive those who trespass against us." The Bible tells us to Repent, to change from being selfish and wilful into: loving God with all our beings, and loving our neighbour: all others, friends or not friends, As we love ourselves. A good start is: treating all we know and all we meet as we would love to be treated, and God will see and approve, and give us His blessings. Love will lead us on and on, we will slowly, but surly turn into the loving children/sons and daughters, which God wants us to become. Jesus told us: " Become ye perfect as God is perfect." Love is very catching, and we will only find out if we: Try and try again and again. I say this with love and blessed assurance, dear SummaScriptura. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Frogster]

A double-whammy.

Well sure, if one did not have grapes, one did not follow farm laws etc..

But it is time to clean up the neighborhood where you live!

Kill a sorceress!

Exodus 22:18 “You shall not permit a sorceress to live.


And kill a Sabbath breaker!



Exodus 35:2 Six days work shall be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.

 

[yedida]

Let's see...He created the Earth and everything in it, He aligned sun perfectly to support life, He created the solar system, the Milky Way, billions upon billions of galaxies each containing billions upon billions of stars....

I'm inclined to believe He could follow them just fine. He is, after all, the one who wrote them.

There are laws just for women. He kept those????? There are laws for homeowners, He said He had no home, how'd he keep those? There are more, He did not, and could not keep.
You are right, He did write them, and then He walked among us and showed how they were intended to be kept, as with joy, not burdensome at all.

 

[Frogster]

they had to do em all, all that they could....


Josh 1:8 This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.



James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


Leviticus 26:15
if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,





Deut28:1 “And if you faithfully obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth.

 

[Frogster]

There are laws just for women. He kept those????? There are laws for homeowners, He said He had no home, how'd he keep those? There are more, He did not, and could not keep.
You are right, He did write them, and then He walked among us and showed how they were intended to be kept, as with joy, not burdensome at all.

peter said the law was a burden, go figure..


10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

 

[SummaScriptura]

I have included certain enhancements.

Please let me know when there is an incorrect Scripture citation, be sure to give me the correct one.

http://www.summascriptura.com/613/

 

[yedida]

peter said the law was a burden, go figure..


10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

yes, the traditions attached to the Law were burdensome. There is a difference between the Law that God gave and the traditions that man added.

 

[Frogster]

yes, the traditions attached to the Law were burdensome. There is a difference between the Law that God gave and the traditions that man added.

no, it was not the fence, it was not oral law, it was Moses.


acts 15:5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

 

[yedida]

no, it was not the fence, it was not oral law, it was Moses.


acts 15:5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

Yes, it was the Oral and traditions - they attributed those to God through Moses as well and believed that they were as valid as what was written. Many Jews still view the Mishna, Talmud, and Gemara the same today.

 

[from scratch]

(p.s. for Summa, my reply is to the title of the thread itself rather than the OP).

no, Christians should not keep all 613 laws. Even a Jew cannot keep all 613 laws. Even Jesus could not keep all 613 laws.

Questions like this actually indicate a lack of awareness generally as to the nature of the law, the scope of the law, the intent of the law and the duration of the law!

All the above can actually be answered by reading the Torah, unfortunately many Christians find it boring, intimidating or simply old, replaced by something better.


Steve

Certainly! Jesus never had to comply with a females purification rites.

That has nothing to do with a Jews inability to make animal sacrifices for sin which didn't apply to Jesus as He was without sin.

That isn't what is being implied with the 613 thing. The point is the keeping of the whole law without chosing how or which ones apply as James indicates.

And yes it is replaced with something better Heb 8:6 says so.

 

[Frogster]

Yes, it was the Oral and traditions - they attributed those to God through Moses as well and believed that they were as valid as what was written. Many Jews still view the Mishna, Talmud, and Gemara the same today.

What does the context indicate it was about?

Acts 15:5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

 

[from scratch]

Yes, it was the Oral and traditions - they attributed those to God through Moses as well and believed that they were as valid as what was written. Many Jews still view the Mishna, Talmud, and Gemara the same today.

So how does that apply to Christians?

 

[cyberlizard]

Well sure, if one did not have grapes, one did not follow farm laws etc..

But it is time to clean up the neighbourhood where you live!

Kill a sorceress!

Exodus 22:18 “You shall not permit a sorceress to live.


And kill a Sabbath breaker!



Exodus 35:2 Six days work shall be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.

I am glad that the death of lawbreakers brings you great amusement. In reality, the teaching God gave ought to drive you to humility

These are not some abstract rules Moses thought up over a cup of coffee. It was God who decreed that anyone breaking the Sabbath should die. God determined the sorcerers die for their idolatry.

Why don't you pontificate into the air and rage at God, telling Him of the injustice of His commandments. Let Him know how immoral you think they are!!! The remember the Torah is Holy, it is good, it is spiritual. But you can't keep it cause you are none of those things in your own power.


Steve

 

[Frogster]

Certainly! Jesus never had to comply with a females purification rites.

That has nothing to do with a Jews inability to make animal sacrifices for sin which didn't apply to Jesus as He was without sin.

That isn't what is being implied with the 613 thing. The point is the keeping of the whole law without chosing how or which ones apply as James indicates.

And yes it is replaced with something better Heb 8:6 says so.

 

[from scratch]

What does the context indicate it was about?

Acts 15:5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

Yes it does say Pharisees doesn't it? Wonder why it doesn't say Christians.

 

[Frogster]

I am glad that the death of lawbreakers brings you great amusement. In reality, the teaching God gave ought to drive you to humility

These are not some abstract rules Moses thought up over a cup of coffee. It was God who decreed that anyone breaking the Sabbath should die. God determined the sorcerers die for their idolatry.

Why don't you pontificate into the air and rage at God, telling Him of the injustice of His commandments. Let Him know how immoral you think they are!!! The remember the Torah is Holy, it is good, it is spiritual. But you can't keep it cause you are none of those things in your own power.

Steve

proves a point, no one is living torah anyway.

I can kill a sorceress in my own power..

 

[yedida]

Yes it does say Pharisees doesn't it? Wonder why it doesn't say Christians.

Because the false teachers hadn't crawled out from under the rocks yet!! Hold on though, they're coming soon.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Well, on one hand I have to remember this scripture:

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.