My point was, whether we are married or not we're commanded to abstain from fornication. Fornication being intercourse outside marriage.
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I understand that you was responding to scratch.But it looks a bit strange, so thats why I ask you what you exactly mean.
Well.. I think I understand you... If I am right you are saying: (and correct me if I am wrong pls) When there is no marriage in the world: we are all surrender to fornication.
Do I understand you here correct?
here, here!
in the u.s. some want to sanction "same sex" marriage!
Well here in Holland it is legal, but not only this.. making legal of abortion too.
The laws.. against the will of God, made by man.. not by God.
My point was, whether we are married or not we're commanded to abstain from fornication. Fornication being intercourse outside marriage.
I understand what you mean.. and in basic I agree fully with you.. Only I think fornication is more than only adultery.
porneia por-ni-ah
from 4203; TDNT-6:579,918; n f
AV-fornication 26; 26
1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; #Le 18:6-23
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; #Mr 10:11,12
2) metaph. the worship of idols
2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
But thanks
I understand what you mean.. and in basic I agree fully with you.. Only I think fornication is more than only adultery.
porneia por-ni-ah
from 4203; TDNT-6:579,918; n f
AV-fornication 26; 26
1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; #Le 18:6-23
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; #Mr 10:11,12
2) metaph. the worship of idols
2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
But thanks
Not necessarily. Some verses list both and next to each other. So there must be a difference.My point was, whether we are married or not we're commanded to abstain from fornication. Fornication being intercourse outside marriage.
Your first sentence is my point exactly.If hes referring to the power given to him by the state and not God then he says that because its required of the law. Gods law always supersedes any man made law. One day Christians may give their lives to prove that.
My point was, whether we are married or not we're commanded to abstain from fornication. Fornication being intercourse outside marriage.
Nope, And I stated why. I think I gave a reasonable and wise answer to your question.you said it. i'm just trying to get a clearer understanding of what you are saying.
you can answer but you won't, because you think i'm looking for the "gotcha".
Each to his own. Let them be fully persuaded in their own mind. If you wish to follow a list of rules more power to ya. I deeply resent anyone trying to push something I've not reasonable or legal obligation to adhear to. That is conversion. I have no objection to personal testimony and this has gone way beyond that to a conversion attempt. I validate no one. We both think each is unreasonable. I don't think you can jsutify your position considering the whole Bible. Part of which is clearly rejected. Sorry, but not an apology.No im pushing the Gospel whether you want to call it by the truth or not. You're labeling me according to your own biased opinion. Paul shows much tolerance in Romans 14 for those who observe days and eat food according to the law. He shows some tolerance to people observing unnecessary laws for the sake of brotherly love, he only condemns them when they say it is the way to salvation, or teaching circumcision for obvious reasons. If paul can show tolerance to food laws, why not show me some for talking about obeying good laws such as abstaining from fornication? Hes not keen on people preaching Righteousness through works or circumcisioon and for good reason. But you seem to take it further than He does, you seem to exclude laws Paul teaches.
Great side step. congratulations!so i guess they were the only people that got married before the time of moses!
Then please tell me why the religous community submits to civil government and not God in religious issues such as the marriage ceremony and rite.The law of man never supersedes that of God. Adultery is handled by Gods law first and mans law second.
Have I not dealt with the do(er) issue? Is it a part time doer or a full time doer? If one isn't a full time doer they aren't a doer of anything. If one has violated the law they don't qualify as a doer. They qualify as a violator and maybe a forgiven violator but that is still a violator and doesn't allow them to qualify as a doer.you still have to deal with matt 5:19
Matthew 5:19(NKJV)
19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
in other words, how can Jesus tell someone to teach the commandments, if He, Himself, is not teaching them?
remember? it was you who said He didn't teach the commandments.
that's why i said, "who do we believe? you or the Christ? wasn't trying to be funny.
stand by your speech, now.
Now I can agree that an unmarried person can commit the sin of fornication, however the Holy Spirit doesn't lead me there.And we're still bound to obey the law of fornication when not married..
I highlighted the solution. Problem solved - permanently!Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
If we're a stumbling block, the solution is very simple - absent yourself from our fellowship. So if your here to point out we offend you, your trespassing our liberty in Christ Jesus - Gal 5.Re 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Re 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not
Re 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts
Is this what you are looking for?Then please tell me why the religous community submits to civil government and not God in religious issues such as the marriage ceremony and rite.
What do you mean? Do you mean that the laws given at Sinai were in affect on day 6 of creation? How? They came 430 years after Abraham - Gal 3:17.i knew that gen 2 wouldn't work for you, even though it says it is recounting the history of the creation. i don't know what will satisfy you. it seems the scripture isn't enough.
this is the crux:
What does James call the law - 2:10-11? What does Paul say is the law - Rom 7:6-7? What are the scribes and pahrisees calling the law? What answer do you think they were expecting?i agree with this statement you have written here.
that's what i believe, the law (the ten, because they define sin) existed, before sinai.
the question is, what was added?
Galatians 3:19(NKJV)
19What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
this cannot be the ten commandments, because even you know that God wrote them Himself. however, this law that was added was appointed through angels.
How would I do that? Isn't that verse self explanatory? Paul clearly shows the law to be the 10 Cs in Rom 7 as sated above.you use the verse, but never comment on the fact of how, the law that was added, was delilvered.
You wish me to say the 10 Cs. But how can that be? Is Paul lying? Wouldn't that prove he is a false teacher? Wouldn't that prove that the Bible isn't inspried by God? So what gives? It doesn't seem to be your position but the Bible's clear statement.couple that with the fact that it was added because of transgressions.
transgressing what? i'll save you the trouble, you can't say.
and whatever law was added was only temporary, till the seed should come.
Please so demonstrate my vacillating. I can take my medicne.i'm not vacillating, my position has not changed since i've come into contact with you. it seems that you are the one vacillating.
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