Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments?

[Elder 111]

Frogster, you have a warped and twisted view of the Ministration of Death. The fact is, God's law can only kill you when you are in direct violation of it. The only way to be free from the condemnation of the law is through Christ, by faith, which frees you from the shackles of sin (transgression of the law). The law cannot save, it can only kill. How does it kill? When you break it!

That's why it is the ministration of death.

So how is it that the ministration of death has no condemning power over you?

When you have the letters written in the heart by the Spirit, where you keep them out of love.

The only way to be free from the law is to KEEP the law by the Spirit, by faith. The law can only be kept by faith, and not the works of the law. And living by faith does not mean disobedience to them. It is a faith that works by love and purifies the soul.

Many people erroneous think that obeying the 10 commandments, such as, rest on God's holy Sabbath (*cough* *cough*...oops, just opened a can of worms sunnies! ) means you're living "by works". This is a foolish perverted interpretation of obedience. Living by works has NOTHING to do with the physical keeping of laws or commandments. It has to do with the MOTIVE! In other words, it is a HEART issue. If you are trying to obey the commandments to earn your way to heaven, because you feel as though it is a ticket into heaven, you will NEVER earn salvation, as salvation does not come by works. It is by faith ALONE! And not by the works of the law.

However, your works will be the RESULT of your faith. Your MOTIVE for keeping them will be right! In other words, as a result of your love for God, and because you have been saved, you will naturally yearn from your heart to be obedient to God.

But to think that you can possibly make it to heaven without works is a deception. It is a deadly deception. And anyone who thinks thus is deceived. Very deceived.

Now get this: Salvation is by faith alone, and not the works of the law. Yet, James 2 makes it very clear that works will follow.

Therefore, if obedience to the law does not follow, what does that reveal? That your faith is dead!

2 Cor 3:3 irrefutably proves that the same laws are to be written not with ink, but by the ministration of the spirit in the tables of the heart.

If they do not transfer from the head to the heart, it means absolutely nothing. The letter kills---but if it is written on the heart by the Spirit (meaning, you want to keep them out of true love), it brings life!

That's what the popular evangelical world doesn't get.

And when they try and argue that they don't have to keep the 10 commandments, they are revealing that they have not truly been saved, and that the love of God is truly not dwelling in their heart. It reveals that they are rebellious in their heart and have not been transformed by the Spirit.

"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was." (James 1:22-24)

Great stuff. Sorry other are blind.

 

[Brother Jason]

Hebrews 10: 16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Just because Jesus died on the cross doesn't mean God suddenly changed His mind on adultery, stealing, lying ...

 

[k4c]

Frogster, you have a warped and twisted view of the Ministration of Death. The fact is, God's law can only kill you when you are in direct violation of it. The only way to be free from the condemnation of the law is through Christ, by faith, which frees you from the shackles of sin (transgression of the law). The law cannot save, it can only kill. How does it kill? When you break it!

That's why it is the ministration of death.

So how is it that the ministration of death has no condemning power over you?

When you have the letters written in the heart by the Spirit, where you keep them out of love.

The only way to be free from the law is to KEEP the law by the Spirit, by faith. The law can only be kept by faith, and not the works of the law. And living by faith does not mean disobedience to them. It is a faith that works by love and purifies the soul.

Many people erroneous think that obeying the 10 commandments, such as, rest on God's holy Sabbath (*cough* *cough*...oops, just opened a can of worms sunnies! ) means you're living "by works". This is a foolish perverted interpretation of obedience. Living by works has NOTHING to do with the physical keeping of laws or commandments. It has to do with the MOTIVE! In other words, it is a HEART issue. If you are trying to obey the commandments to earn your way to heaven, because you feel as though it is a ticket into heaven, you will NEVER earn salvation, as salvation does not come by works. It is by faith ALONE! And not by the works of the law.

However, your works will be the RESULT of your faith. Your MOTIVE for keeping them will be right! In other words, as a result of your love for God, and because you have been saved, you will naturally yearn from your heart to be obedient to God.

But to think that you can possibly make it to heaven without works is a deception. It is a deadly deception. And anyone who thinks thus is deceived. Very deceived.

Now get this: Salvation is by faith alone, and not the works of the law. Yet, James 2 makes it very clear that works will follow.

Therefore, if obedience to the law does not follow, what does that reveal? That your faith is dead!

2 Cor 3:3 irrefutably proves that the same laws are to be written not with ink, but by the ministration of the spirit in the tables of the heart.

If they do not transfer from the head to the heart, it means absolutely nothing. The letter kills---but if it is written on the heart by the Spirit (meaning, you want to keep them out of true love), it brings life!

That's what the popular evangelical world doesn't get.

And when they try and argue that they don't have to keep the 10 commandments, they are revealing that they have not truly been saved, and that the love of God is truly not dwelling in their heart. It reveals that they are rebellious in their heart and have not been transformed by the Spirit.

"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was." (James 1:22-24)

Excellent post!!!

People also miss the fact how Paul says the Law was supposed to bring life but instead it brought death because of sin. Get rid of the sin through the cleansing blood of Christ and we too will delight in the Law as Pau did.

 

[k4c]

Hebrews 10: 16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Just because Jesus died on the cross doesn't mean God suddenly changed His mind on adultery, stealing, lying ...

Amen and amen!!!

Its so simple to understand this when you let the Lord lead.

 

[Frogster]

This is soooo classic!
The law party presumes, that the grace people love sin, when the grace people are under a faith, that does not have sin as a dominion, and the law people's own words, show they are bogged down by the consciousness of sin, because they are under law, where sin has dominion!



14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

 

[Frogster]

Very interesting that you are still unable to vote Why?

huh? What does my vote, have to do with this?

Why don't we have to keep the passover?

Please advise.

 

[Lysimachus]

Remember folks,

Christ came to "magnify" the law and make it "honourable" (Isa 42:21), not replace the law.

His teachings "amplified", and built on top of the 10 commandments. They were "extensions" thereof, showing the greater laws of love. In other words, you can keep the Ten Commandments outwardly. But if keeping them is not motivated by true love, and their "greater meaning" is not understood, then they become meaningless. Christ came to remind the Jews of the law they had forgotten. The law of love which was emphasized in Deuteronomy 6:5; Lev 19:18 was the law that was "forgotten".

The Ten Commandments are simply the foundational principles of carrying out of the laws of love. But they can only be kept with a genuine motivation.

Christ's laws do not erase the Ten Commandments. They amplify them. They magnify them. They make them honourable.

It is because of sin against this law that we needed a Saviour. In order to be forgiven, you have to recognize something is sin. But if people do not recognize that breaking the Ten Commandments is sin, how can we be forgiven for breaking them?

We can't!

"For by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20)

 

[Frogster]

15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace

Lets remember folks, the cross happened....

 

[Frogster]

The law created hostility, between jew and gentile, and to God.


14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

 

[Lysimachus]

15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace

Lets remember folks, the cross happened....

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace." (Eph 2:15)

Notice the qualifier: "CONTAINED in ordinances!"

This is talking about the sanctuary services, such as sacrificing of the lamb, burnt offerings, meat offerings, drink offerings, certain festivals, new moons, etc. etc. Compare this with Colossians 2:14-17, and then it becomes clear. It has to do with the "handwriting of ordinances that were AGAINST us". According to Deuteronomy 31:24-28, it was the "book of the law" placed on the SIDE of the Ark that was "against" the Children of Israel. NOT the Ten Commandments located inside the Ark of the Covenant.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The law created hostility, between jew and gentile, and to God.

14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G5227 matches the Greek ὑπεναντίος (hypenantios), which occurs 2 times in 2 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

http://www.christianforums.com/t7238619/
Picture: The Scroll, the Serpent, and our Salvation

Colo 2:14 Out-rubbing/blotting-out the against us hand-writing to the decrees which was hostile/opposed/contrary/upenantion <5227> to us,
and has taken away out of the midst, toward-nailing it to the stauros.

5227. hupenantios hoop-en-an-tee'-os from 5259 and 1727; under (covertly) contrary to, i.e. opposed or (as noun) an opponent:--adversary, against.

 

[Frogster]

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace." (Eph 2:15)

Notice the qualifier: "CONTAINED in ordinances!"

This is talking about the sanctuary services, such as sacrificing of the lamb, burnt offerings, meat offerings, drink offerings, certain festivals, new moons, etc. etc. Compare this with Colossians 2:14-17, and then it becomes clear. It has to do with the "handwriting of ordinances that were AGAINST us". According to Deuteronomy 31:24-28, it was the "book of the law" placed on the SIDE of the Ark that was "against" the Children of Israel. NOT the Ten Commandments located inside the Ark of the Covenant.

no no no..the law was one, josh 1:8, Gal 5:3, Gal 3:10, James 2:10.

So ceremonial ordinances, were why we were not in God?
It says reconciled ..TO GOD..

We we dead in sins and ceremonial trespasses?


2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

God was in Christ, not counting ceremonial tespasses against them? Note the "reconcile" word again, like in 2:16.


19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.



case closed. Next....?

 

[Frogster]

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G5227 matches the Greek &#8017;&#960;&#949;&#957;&#945;&#957;&#964;&#8055;&#959;&#962; (hypenantios), which occurs 2 times in 2 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

http://www.christianforums.com/t7238619/
Picture: The Scroll, the Serpent, and our Salvation

Colo 2:14 Out-rubbing/blotting-out the against us hand-writing to the decrees which was hostile/opposed/contrary/upenantion <5227> to us,
and has taken away out of the midst, toward-nailing it to the stauros.

5227. hupenantios hoop-en-an-tee'-os from 5259 and 1727; under (covertly) contrary to, i.e. opposed or (as noun) an opponent:--adversary, against.

you were dead in ceremonial trespasses lambster.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

<snip>

case closed. Next....?

I doubt that

http://www.christianforums.com/t7430788-17/#post53876057
This Thread Will End All Debate On The Sabbath Once And For All

 

[Frogster]

I doubt that

http://www.christianforums.com/t7430788-17/#post53876057
This Thread Will End All Debate On The Sabbath Once And For All

even NPP NT Wright, says that was about the law on a whole.

I guess we will have to see, how it was just ceremonial. Or part of the law.

When they got it, they did not say.."SOME of what the Lord says, we will do".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We we dead in sins and ceremonial trespasses?

2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

God was in Christ, not counting ceremonial tespasses against them? Note the "reconcile" word again, like in 2:16.

19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

case closed. Next....?

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for YNG
(trespasses)
occurs 13 times in 11 verses in the YNG
Page 1 / 1 inexact matches (Mat 6:14 - Jam 5:16)

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G3900 matches the Greek &#960;&#945;&#961;&#8049;&#960;&#964;&#969;&#956;&#945; (parapt&#333;ma), which occurs 23 times in 20 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

Last time used in NT/NC of Bible

(Young) James 5:16 Be confessing to one another the trespasses/paraptwmata <3900>, and be praying for one another, that ye may be healed;
very strong is a working supplication of a righteous man

3900. paraptoma par-ap'-to-mah from 3895; a side-slip (lapse or deviation), i.e. (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression:--fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.
3844. para par-ah' a primary preposition; properly, near; i.e.
4098. pipto pip'-to, a reduplicated and contracted form of peto pet'-o; (which occurs only as an alternate in certain tenses); probably akin to 4072 through the idea of alighting; to fall (literally or figuratively):--fail, fall (down), light on.

 

[Aibrean]

I agree that Christians can't keep the law.

 

[Frogster]

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for YNG
(trespasses)
occurs 13 times in 11 verses in the YNG
Page 1 / 1 inexact matches (Mat 6:14 - Jam 5:16)

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G3900 matches the Greek &#960;&#945;&#961;&#8049;&#960;&#964;&#969;&#956;&#945; (parapt&#333;ma), which occurs 23 times in 20 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

Last time used in NT/NC of Bible

(Young) James 5:16 Be confessing to one another the trespasses/paraptwmata <3900>, and be praying for one another, that ye may be healed;
very strong is a working supplication of a righteous man

3900. paraptoma par-ap'-to-mah from 3895; a side-slip (lapse or deviation), i.e. (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression:--fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.
3844. para par-ah' a primary preposition; properly, near; i.e.
4098. pipto pip'-to, a reduplicated and contracted form of peto pet'-o; (which occurs only as an alternate in certain tenses); probably akin to 4072 through the idea of alighting; to fall (literally or figuratively):--fail, fall (down), light on.

cool..same as col 2, dead in transgressions. Like the former pagans were dead because of cerem laws.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

cool..same as col 2, dead in transgressions. Like the former pagans were dead because of cerem laws.

I like the way the ole KJperVersion calls them

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
(heathen)
occurs 150 times in 145 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 6 inexact matches (Lev 25:44 - Neh 6:16)

Last time used in KJV of NT/NC:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7411599-20/#post53468336
Galatians 3:8

KJV) Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen/eqnh <1484> through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Textus Rec.) Galatians 3:8 proidousa de h grafh oti ek pistewV dikaioi ta eqnh o qeoV proeuhggelisato tw abraam oti eneuloghqhsontai en soi panta ta eqnh

 

[Frogster]

I like the way the ole KJperVersion calls them

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
(heathen)
occurs 150 times in 145 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 6 inexact matches (Lev 25:44 - Neh 6:16)

Last time used in KJV of NT/NC:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7411599-20/#post53468336
Galatians 3:8

KJV) Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen/eqnh <1484> through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Textus Rec.) Galatians 3:8 proidousa de h grafh oti ek pistewV dikaioi ta eqnh o qeoV proeuhggelisato tw abraam oti eneuloghqhsontai en soi panta ta eqnh

Me two, and interestingly enough, even the jews, were really no better becaus of law..WE..Jewish Paul also..

2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Again, gives context to what law was abolished, paul was not just talking cerem here in chapter 2.