Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

[KWCrazy]

To make it crystal clear for you, @KWCrazy, I wrongly believed that I was in a relationship with a supernatural being, namely Jesus Christ.

How do you know you're not wrong now?
I presume you've never witnessed a miracle. 25% of Americans have. If you're right now, 75,000,000 of them are wrong.
I presume you do not believe in miracles. 80% of Americans do. If you're right now, 240,000,000 of them are wrong.
Two thirds of Americans believe that angels and demons are real. If you're right now, 198,000,000 of them are wrong.

 

[Oafman]

How do you know you're not wrong now?
I presume you've never witnessed a miracle. 25% of Americans have. If you're right now, 75,000,000 of them are wrong.
I presume you do not believe in miracles. 80% of Americans do. If you're right now, 240,000,000 of them are wrong.
Two thirds of Americans believe that angels and demons are real. If you're right now, 198,000,000 of them are wrong.

Don't imply that Archaeopteryx is the only person who doesn't believe in such stuff, while millions do.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

How do you know you're not wrong now?

In my assessment, there is no good reason to believe in the core claims of Christianity. If you have good reasons to present, then by all means present them.

I presume you've never witnessed a miracle. 25% of Americans have. If you're right now, 75,000,000 of them are wrong.

If your figure is correct, then it is more accurate to say that 25% of Americans claim to have witnessed a miracle.

I presume you do not believe in miracles. 80% of Americans do. If you're right now, 240,000,000 of them are wrong.
Two thirds of Americans believe that angels and demons are real. If you're right now, 198,000,000 of them are wrong.

Argumentum ad populum.

 

[HitchSlap]

I have faith because I have searched the Scriptures, called on the name of Jesus to be saved, repented of my sins and entered into a personal relationship with Him. He has given us His Spirit to guide us in the world, as the Bible says, we will not be left on our own.

I have found no such assurance in any other faith or belief system, and yes, I have looked. I have wrestled with my faith, I have felt abandoned by God many times, but it was I who turned away from Him, not the other way around. Jesus has never failed me.

Are you familiar with the psychology behind Stockholm syndrome?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I have faith because I have searched the Scriptures, called on the name of Jesus to be saved, repented of my sins and entered into a personal relationship with Him. He has given us His Spirit to guide us in the world, as the Bible says, we will not be left on our own.

I have found no such assurance in any other faith or belief system, and yes, I have looked. I have wrestled with my faith, I have felt abandoned by God many times, but it was I who turned away from Him, not the other way around. Jesus has never failed me.

So only assurance keeps you wedded to your faith? You feel assured that you are not alone?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Don't imply that Archaeopteryx is the only person who doesn't believe in such stuff, while millions do.

If KWCrazy is right, then the majority of humanity - those who aren't Christian, much less his version of Christian - are wrong. Oh look, I can appeal to the majority too!

 

[amariselle]

Are you familiar with the psychology behind Stockholm syndrome?

Yes actually. Psychology and Sociology were what I studied in college. (I have a B.A. in Social Sciences)

 

[amariselle]

So only assurance keeps you wedded to your faith? You feel assured that you are not alone?

No, it goes much deeper than that. We are also to love God with our minds, which is why we are to be discerning in this world.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

No, it goes much deeper than that. We are also to love God with our minds, which is why we are to be discerning in this world.

But do you actually care about whether it is true or not?

 

[amariselle]

But do you actually care about whether it is true or not?

Of course I do, why wouldn't I?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Of course I do, why wouldn't I?

Because the impression you are giving me is that the assurance you feel is what matters most to you, and not whether it is true or not, or whether you have good reasons to believe it. You've said that you know that it's true "through faith." But faith can be used to justify whatever one wishes, so it's not a pathway to truth. Yet that doesn't seem to bother you because, as mentioned, it's the assurance you feel that seems to matter most. I could of course be wrong in how I've appraised the situation, but that's the impression I get from our discussion so far.

 

[Jimmy D]

We were talking about common ancestor for mammals and that means primates.

The Lemur is the last common ancestor of all primates. We were talking about mammals. Humans are a mammal. That is why they use mice and things like that in their lab experiments because they are more like Humans then reptiles.

I do like Lemurs, I'll give you that!

 

[amariselle]

Because the impression you are giving me is that the assurance you feel is what matters most to you, and not whether it is true or not, or whether you have good reasons to believe it. You've said that you know that it's true "through faith." But faith can be used to justify whatever one wishes, so it's not a pathway to truth. Yet that doesn't seem to bother you because, as mentioned, it's the assurance you feel that seems to matter most. I could of course be wrong in how I've appraised the situation, but that's the impression I get from our discussion so far.

Yes, I would say your impression is wrong, though I do understand it is a very difficult thing to explain. I have simply been trying my best to put it into words. I have in fact struggled with my faith a great deal (although I do admit, many others have far more difficult circumstances in life than I do). For example, I have an anxiety disorder, it is chronic, it is something I must deal with and manage with medication every single day. But, through it all I have learned to trust God more and He has always been there for me. There is so much I could never have done if it wasn't for Him.

The Christian faith is deeply personal and relational. It is hard outside of that relationship to understand what a person is talking about. Also, we need the Holy Spirit, and we need to trust Him for guidance and discernment. I've actually become all the more aware of and concerned about what is really going on in the world as a result. People matter more to me and I care more than I would otherwise.

 

[Robert Palase]

Who said you were a Christian? You or Christ?
Being raised in a Christian home and attending a Christian church three times per week doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in the garden makes you a tomato. Being a Christian means accepting Christ as your savior and receiving the Holy Spirit; the direct link between yourself and God. A true Christian could no more deny the existence of God than a divorced person could deny that their spouse never existed. If you had a relationship with Christ you would know He exists. If you don't believe He exists, you never had a relationship.

You will believe you are a Christian until the day you decide not to believe anymore, even the Devil was a believer once don't forget.

 

[Robert Palase]

I have faith because I have searched the Scriptures, called on the name of Jesus to be saved, repented of my sins and entered into a personal relationship with Him. He has given us His Spirit to guide us in the world, as the Bible says, we will not be left on our own.
I have found no such assurance in any other faith or belief system, and yes, I have looked. I have wrestled with my faith, I have felt abandoned by God many times, but it was I who turned away from Him, not the other way around. Jesus has never failed me.

In other words you talked yourself into it.

 

[Robert Palase]

How do you know you're not wrong now?
I presume you've never witnessed a miracle. 25% of Americans have. If you're right now, 75,000,000 of them are wrong.
I presume you do not believe in miracles. 80% of Americans do. If you're right now, 240,000,000 of them are wrong.
Two thirds of Americans believe that angels and demons are real. If you're right now, 198,000,000 of them are wrong.

Yes everyone of those many many millions are wrong, completely wrong.

 

[KWCrazy]

You will believe you are a Christian until the day you decide not to believe anymore, even the Devil was a believer once don't forget.

The devil didn't have to believe, he had knowledge.

 

[HitchSlap]

The devil didn't have to believe, he had knowledge.

Makes you wonder what he knew and you don't.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I do like Lemurs, I'll give you that!

Of course because they are so closely related to humans. So we have a lot in common with them. This is the point of the Madagascar study is to find a cure for HIV by comparing the primates that are infected with HIV with the primates that HIV does not seem to have an effect on. A lot of what we are learning right now comes out of research done to prevent or cure diseases.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I presume you've never witnessed a miracle.

Every miracle I have ever seen restores everything to the way they should be. So the problem is not to show there was a miracle the problem was to show there was something wrong in the first place. Of course they have their spontaneous theory also. They deny divine cause.