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Do you accept evolution as a valid scientific theory?

Do accept evolution as a valid scientific theory?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Doesn't matter/neutral/I am in the mist of research

  • Four is my favorite number


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shernren

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In other words, in order to believe in evolution one has to be an unregenerate sinner. That is what I hear you saying when you connect these words to evolutionism.

I'm disappointed to hear yet another creationist express this kind of sentiments. It seems to me like a last resort after the end of a fruitless debate: "Now, I hear the Holy Spirit telling me that you're all useless compromisers so I'm not going to play your game!" There are other ways to resolve disputes ... we can simply "agree to disagree". We could sit down and instead of aiming to change others aim to learn why others believe what they believe.

Instead, I hear a creationist telling me that I'm not a Christian because I believe in evolution. Such charity.
 
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LoG

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shernren said:
Instead, I hear a creationist telling me that I'm not a Christian because I believe in evolution. Such charity.

Charity? Yes definitely!! I am more concerned for you than you are. Instead of looking at it as a condemnation, pray for the leading and the truth of the Spirit. Is there a dependence on the witness of the natural mind?
The last verse says that it will even deceive the elect. I am not trying to tell you that you aren't a Christian. I am trying to tell you to please, please, please stop listening to the reasonings of the secular man and start praying for the wisdom of God and open your heart to receive it.
 
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john crawford

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invisible trousers said:
Those are species, not races.
There is no evidence of those fossils belonging to different 'species' since most of them belonged to various racial members of the human race.

Excuse me? Nobody here has said anything about racism, other than you.
Of course not, since I am the only one pointing out the inherent racism in all Darwinist theories of human evolution from African apes. Calling African people different 'species.' Indeed.
You keep lying about claims made by evolution and refuse to provide a single piece of evidence which supports things you say.
No, I don't lie about claims made by evolution but do post plenty of evidence how racially prejudiced and bigoted such Darwinist theories inherently are. You don't seem to even know what 'inherent' means.
Why is this? Why do you keep lying about evolution?
I don't lie about evolution any more than I keep beating my wife. You have yet to point out one lie I have told.
I'm pretty baffled as to why a christian would go to such lengths to lie about things.
You are just supposing I am lying without providing any evidence to substantiate your odd belief, just like you suppose that African people evolved from non-human apes in Africa, without any evidence to substantiate those quasi-religious and pseudoscientific beliefs.
 
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shernren

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I don't want to question your motives, but that is what it amounts to: a condemnation. Look at the context of the last verse you quoted:

Pray that this will not take place in winter, because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now--and never to be equaled again. If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.
(Mark 13:18-22 NIV)

The specific "signs and miracles" will promote a false Christ who will imitate the coming of Jesus. I don't see anything of that sort in evolution. Also, here the phrasing clearly states that the elect cannot be deceived; therefore that those who are deceived are not the elect.

The origins debate is a lot more complicated than evil hardcore atheistic evolutionists -confused compromising Christian evolutionists - brave saintly resistant YECists.

I've prayed about it, meditated about it, wondered how other Christians just as honest and persistent in searching can come to completely different opinionis. If the Holy Spirit really does want to convert me back to wholesome YEC goodness He's taking an awfully long time.
 
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david_x

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You are just supposing I am lying without providing any evidence to substantiate your odd belief, just like you suppose that African people evolved from non-human apes in Africa,

No he says we all evolved from those apes, riducules at best but if they have enough faith to believe that then whatever.
 
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LoG

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shernren said:
I don't want to question your motives, but that is what it amounts to: a condemnation.

I have no control over how you choose to interpret my post especially since it wasn't even in response to anything you posted. That you are taking offence to it is perhaps an indicator of something?


Well at least to you we aren't the "lying creationists" that another has termed us. Strange that for almost 6000 years us lying creationists were attempting to subvert the elect by insisting that they take the "myth" literally. I guess you can be thankfull that God through the agnostic prophet Darwin revealed that it all was just a hoax and that reality is that He simply created one cell and set it into action while He sat back to enjoy the show. Waiting for the day when those silly son's of His would be making fools of themselves by denying what all the materialistic people said was obvious, simply because we had the stupidity to take Him at His Word. Ahh us creationists are truly like sheep led to the slaughter.
 
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john crawford

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david_x said:
No he says we all evolved from those apes, riducules at best but if they have enough faith to believe that then whatever.
Notto can only say that we all evolved from apes if he can prove that African people did first. Since he can't do anything more than post a gallery of fossils skulls representing various racial groups throughout the world, and has no evidence of human evolution in Africa, it is reasonable to assume than no racial groups in the world today evolved from non-human apes in Africa.
 
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invisible trousers

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john crawford said:
There is no evidence of those fossils belonging to different 'species' since most of them belonged to various racial members of the human race.

Prove or retract.

"Because I say so" doesn't cut it, homes.

Of course not, since I am the only one pointing out the inherent racism in all Darwinist theories of human evolution from African apes. Calling African people different 'species.' Indeed.

Did you know that people of different races are members of the same species? People from all over the world are different races, but are still homo sapiens! Strange how that works

No, I don't lie about claims made by evolution but do post plenty of evidence how racially prejudiced and bigoted such Darwinist theories inherently are. You don't seem to even know what 'inherent' means.

Yes, you do lie about claims made by evolution, and no, you have not provided a single piece of evidence which shows evolution is racist. In fact, you've shown a deliberate misunderstanding of some of the most basic concepts of evolution, such as "species".

I don't lie about evolution any more than I keep beating my wife. You have yet to point out one lie I have told.

I keep telling you, and you keep ignoring me. Here, I'll paraphrase it for you:

John: Evolution is racist!
it: Evolution makes no claims about race.
John: Look, evolution is racist!
it: Evolution makes no claims about race. Could you provide evidence which shows evolution is racist?
John: Evolution is racist because I say so!
it: No? Uh..ok... why are you lying about claims made by evolution?
John: Evolution is racist!

When you say that the theory of evolution is racist, but in reality where the theory has nothing to do with race, you're lying. It's pretty simple.


I am not supposing because you continually lie about claims made by evolution.

Oh, evidence?




Notice how these fossils weren't all found in africa.

Once again, you're going to wave your hands and dismiss it without providing any substantiation. You can keep ignoring it, but it won't go away.

Lion of God said:
Well at least to you we aren't the "lying creationists" that another has termed us.
You are more than welcome to respond to me directly, but it's kind of moot since when I said lying creationists, it was meant in a different context. Feel free to ignore that, however.

And when someone says evolution claims xxx or yyy when evolution does not claim xxx or yyy, it makes them a liar. There is no debate here.

david_x said:
No he says we all evolved from those apes, riducules at best but if they have enough faith to believe that then whatever.
yaaay more hand waving You may be surprised, but I do have faith I just have faith that God has decided to leave us evidence how He created us, and have faith that He gave us brains so we can figure all this stuff out

I take it from this thread that the YECs here are totally cool with a God who has left mountains of evidence which shows evolution, an old earth, old universe, etc, but has decided to fool all his followers into believing it?

You're all cool with God being a total liar and deceiver, yes?
 
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invisible trousers

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Those are species, not races. It would be hilarious for you to try to show which racial groups are represented and at which arbitrary point they become "human".

there is much more info at http://talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/

Keep up with the lying! It makes you a good christian witness to the rest of us.

edit: here I can give you some words (via http://talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html) since the pictures apparently mean nothing to you:

 
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invisible trousers

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continued...

 
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gluadys

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david_x said:
Those that display the fruits of the spirit,(love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self control.)
Those who do the work of the spirit, show the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (drink poison but not die, pick up deadly snakes without bein' bit)

And what if those who show the fruits of the Spirit disagree about how long it took to create the universe? Who is hearing the Spirit correctly? How do you know?
 
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john crawford

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invisible trousers said:
Did you know that people of different races are members of the same species? People from all over the world are different races, but are still homo sapiens! Strange how that works
The fact that H. sapiens consists of various racial groups is itself evidence of the inherent racial aspects of Darwinist theories of human evolution. Every H. sapiens fossil presented by Darwinists as evidence of evolution was a former member of a racial group in some part of the world. If you don't think Homo erectus also consisted of various different racial groups all over the world, you don't know much about the inherent racial aspects of human evolution since raciation is a preliminary requisite in order for one species to evolve into another.

What do you think? A small population of H. erectus in Africa suddenly evolved into African H. sapiens during the course of a thousand years and no other populations of erectus developed racial traits in China or India over a million years? Where's your Darwinist imagination?
Yes, you do lie about claims made by evolution, and no, you have not provided a single piece of evidence which shows evolution is racist.
You lie when you claim that I have not provided a single peice of evidence which shows that Darwinist theory is inherently racist.
In fact, you've shown a deliberate misunderstanding of some of the most basic concepts of evolution, such as "species".
Oh, yeah. Prove that H. habilis, rudolfensis, ergaster and erectus were differenent 'species' of people in Africa.
I keep telling you, and you keep ignoring me.
I keep telling you that Darwinism is inherently racist and you just keep on ignoring me.
When you say that the theory of evolution is racist, but in reality where the theory has nothing to do with race, you're lying. It's pretty simple.
You say the theory of evolution is not racist, but in reality I prove that Darwinist theories of human evolution are inherently racist because they are theories about the origins of the human race and various racial groups within it.
I am not supposing because you continually lie about claims made by evolution.
Yes you are "supposing" and are lying if you say you are not "supposing."
Oh, evidence?
Yes, evidence.
* (A) Pan troglodytes, chimpanzee, modern
* (B) Australopithecus africanus, STS 5, 2.6 My
* (C) Australopithecus africanus, STS 71, 2.5 My
* (D) Homo habilis, KNM-ER 1813, 1.9 My
* (E) Homo habilis, OH24, 1.8 My
* (F) Homo rudolfensis, KNM-ER 1470, 1.8 My
* (G) Homo erectus, Dmanisi cranium D2700, 1.75 My
* (H) Homo ergaster (early H. erectus), KNM-ER 3733, 1.75 My
* (I) Homo heidelbergensis, "Rhodesia man," 300,000 - 125,000 y
* (J) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Ferrassie 1, 70,000 y
* (K) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Chappelle-aux-Saints, 60,000 y
* (L) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Le Moustier, 45,000 y
* (M) Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I, 30,000 y
* (N) Homo sapiens sapiens, modern
Notice how these fossils weren't all found in africa.
Yes, and notice how the chronological order shows African humans (D, E and E) first evolving from non-human African apes (A and B) before Neanderthals or Homo sapiens even existed. Eurasian Neanderthals are theorized to have evolved in Africa but no Neanderthal fossils have ever been found there, and Eurasian Homo sapiens are said to be descended from and biologically equal to a regional/racial type of African Homo sapiens which Darwinists claim originated from non-human African apes.
Once again, you're going to wave your hands and dismiss it without providing any substantiation. You can keep ignoring it, but it won't go away.
Who me? Ignore the inherent racism in Darwinism? Bring it on.
And when someone says evolution claims xxx or yyy when evolution does not claim xxx or yyy, it makes them a liar. There is no debate here.
Then there is no debate about the fact that when someone says evolution does not claim xxx or yyy when evolution does claim xxx or yyy, it makes them a liar.
 
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gluadys

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john crawford said:
You say the theory of evolution is not racist, but in reality I prove that Darwinist theories of human evolution are inherently racist because they are theories about the origins of the human race and various racial groups within it.

By that criterion, the stories of Adam and of Noah & his sons are also racist in that they are about the origins of the human race and various racial groups within it.

What else do you expect any theory of human origins to be about?

I suppose you consider any theory about the origin of frogs and the various species/varieties of frogs to be racist in respect to frogs.
 
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shernren

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I have no control over how you choose to interpret my post especially since it wasn't even in response to anything you posted. That you are taking offence to it is perhaps an indicator of something?

Precisely. I refuse to blame you for the fact that it came across to me as a condemnation. I respect your admission that you did not intend to condemn me. ... but that does not take away the fact that it did sound like a condemnation. I accept that it could be my fault; but at the same time, it is dangerous to throw Scripture at people without looking carefully at the context and implications of it.


Hey, don't take it out on me! LOL. I do sympathise with you for being called a "lying creationist", but to be honest I think that often evolutionists are on the worse side of the insults, knowingly or not. Not that I'm saying we have a right to hit back or anything, but ... do try to sympathise.

What I really, really don't get is why people assume that we believe what we believe simply as a compromise or a way to get atheistic scientists off our back. As if we would believe in a theory regardless of its supposedly anti-Christian implications.
 
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john crawford

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gluadys said:
By that criterion, the stories of Adam and of Noah & his sons are also racist in that they are about the origins of the human race and various racial groups within it.
Stories of Adam and Noah are not being taught in public school science classes like Darwinist racial theories of human origins are.
I suppose you consider any theory about the origin of frogs and the various species/varieties of frogs to be racist in respect to frogs.
Frogs aren't classified as racial groups with civil rights by the U.S. Gov't as far as I know.
 
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john crawford

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Lion of God said:
There is another thread for discussions pertaining to Evolution and Racism
Since this thread is on the validity of evolution as a scientific theory, and pertains to our acceptance or rejection of it as such, religious and racial reasons given for rejecting it may be seen to be as equally valid and pertinent as scientific reasons themselves.
 
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gluadys

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john crawford said:
Stories of Adam and Noah are not being taught in public school science classes like Darwinist racial theories of human origins are.

Frogs aren't classified as racial groups with civil rights by the U.S. Gov't as far as I know.

Irrelevant.

I take your lack of objection to mean you agree the biblical story of origins is just as "racist" as evolution, and, in fact, that no theory of human origin or variation could be anything but "racist" by your criterion.
 
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invisible trousers

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Few things. First, you are more than welcome to respond to me directly. Second, "lying creationists" in the proper context meant creationist organizations which knowingly perpetrate lies and falsehoods about the theory of evolution, not individuals posting in this thread. Third, and most importantly, God is the Word, not the bible. I'm not inclined to believe someone's views about the bible when they butcher such a simple and important concept. Making the bible the Word is a kind of idolatry, which I don't think God likes too much.

This is fun and all, but I'll be off in the evolution racism thread.
 
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