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Do we really have to go with the DNC & RNC picks?

timothyu

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That line never gets old.
Because it was once true.


BTW a democracy gives the people choice between two opposing sides. The S of A is given choice of two sides of the same coin, both of which are funded by the same people who never lose. Time for people to remind government they are supposed to serve the people , not the lobbyists and financial backers..
 
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Nithavela

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Most democracies give more than two choices.
 
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KCfromNC

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Yeah, that's definitely true. The sad reality is, though, that there's not much that can be done about it. You could try a write-in vote for a 3rd party candidate, but don't expect it to make a difference.
Except in close races, where it benefits the major party candidate you prefer the least.
 
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Arc F1

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The cost of running is why we will never get a really good person in office. We'll that and media censorship. Right now they are censoring what the president puts out. If he can't speak his mind you know they won't push an unknown persons message. It always ends up being the lesser of two evils.
 
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Albion

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Unfortunately, it is now so late in the going that most states are past the point when a new party or even an independent candidate can legally qualify for the November ballot.

Yes, there are a handful, but that's all. Still, if it's a matter of conscience for you and you happen to live in one of these states, that would be a possibility.
 
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Albion

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But let's assume the Indy candidate is viable. 3 major candidates in each state means the chance of one winning a clear majority of a state's votes could be remote.
So that state's EVs would then go to whoever wins the plurality. Those pluralities could well be small. Is it really fair if all of a state's EVs go to a candidate who wins, let's say, only 40% of the vote?
If that's a concern, give some thought to how a direct popular vote would work out. People never seem to do that, but if the election were at all close (as with your own example of Bush v. Gore), the recounts and court challenges would go on for the better part of a year. That's one advantage to having the Electoral College instead.
 
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durangodawood

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The purpose of voting is not for you to feel good. Its to try for the best actual outcome for the country.

Feeling good about yourself while advancing your worst choice candidate is almost childishly irresponsible. Thats what happens when you cast a spoiler vote... unless youre in a "safe" state.

I would love to see a system that removes the spoiler penalty for 3rd party voting tho. Some version of ranked choice voting. Then you could "vote your conscience" in good conscience. Thats we we should aim for.
 
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Albion

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The purpose of voting is not for you to feel good.
I don't think anyone said to vote in order "to feel good."

Following one's conscience is not a matter of doing whatever makes you feel good and doing it for that reason only. That's the case even though following one's conscience probably will also make you feel at ease with your decision.

Feeling good about yourself while advancing your worst choice candidate is almost childishly irresponsible. Thats what happens when you cast a spoiler vote... unless youre in a "safe" state.
Again, I have no idea from where this odd notion should have come from. It wouldn't seem to have been anything that was posted on this thread.
 
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durangodawood

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What else is casting a spoiler "conscience" vote for? Its not about the country, as youve done nothing at best, and quite possibly advanced the worst candidate. Its about you and feeling good about your vote.

Look at FL 2000 for a perfect example. Nader "conscience" votes probably cost Gore the state. Result: all those conscience voters actually advanced their worst choice candidate, and a few years later hundreds of thousands dead in a giant waste of a war, which was a terrible outcome according to pretty much everyone to the left of GWB, including those same original conscience voters.

So yeah, assuaging my conscience at the cost of advancing the worst candidate is all about me and my feelings rather than the actual outcome for country. Its an unwillingness to compromise in a system thats always about compromise. No one gets the exact candidate they want. And no one can cast a meaningful vote for the exact candidate they want in our current 2 party electoral system. Like I say, I'd love to change the voting system to allow meaningful 3rd party votes.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Speaking of his choice. He is supposed to announce his choice next week.

He would do well to select Liz Warren. She's the only one with the chops to take over as POTUS. However he seems to be committed to a black woman.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The caveat is that our form of government will only work with a responsible citizenry.
 
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Albion

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What else is casting a spoiler "conscience" vote for?
Most people who vote third party are convinced either that their candidate is the best one in the field (even if he or she has little chance of winning) or else they feel that the two-party duopoly that has governed our country for many generations is not working in our best interests or that of democracy itself.

On that basis, these voters can hardly be faulted. You yourself made spoke favorably of us changing from the current system to the "ranked voting" system that has gained some favor lately and which would be one way of breaking the stranglehold of the two party system we have now.

Look at FL 2000 for a perfect example. Nader "conscience" votes probably cost Gore the state.
And it was also argued that Pat Buchanan being on the ballot as well was what tipped the outcome...and he was at the opposite end of the political spectrum from Nader.

Result: all those conscience voters actually advanced their worst choice candidate
Not in their own eyes. In yours, perhaps, if you would have preferred Gore, but you cannot say that voting for Nader "advanced their worst choice candidate."

So yeah, assuaging my conscience at the cost of advancing the worst candidate is all about me and my feelings rather than the actual outcome for country. Its an unwillingness to compromise in a system thats always about compromise.
And yet you are asking that third party voters who are opposed to always compromising and taking the "lesser of two evils" ought themselves to compromise.
 
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Albion

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He would do well to select Liz Warren. She's the only one with the chops to take over as POTUS. However he seems to be committed to a black woman.
She may be what you say, but there's a lot of "downside" to this person that also needs to be taken account of.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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She may be what you say, but there's a lot of "downside" to this person that also needs to be taken account of.

Sure, but she would strengthen the ticket more than a black woman, imo.
 
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FenderTL5

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..the majority of US americans prefers it this way.
I tend to think that statement is untrue.
However, the parties have legally entrenched themselves, preventing grass root changes.

{edit to add}
I haven't voted for a major party candidate for president in 20 years.
 
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Albion

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I tend to think that statement is untrue.
However, the parties have legally entrenched themselves, preventing grass root changes.

This is true, and they've done it much more thoroughly than most voters think.
 
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durangodawood

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Picking your absolute "best candidate" is a vanity vote in our current system. In a natural 2-party game (first-past-the-post voting), which is what we have, actual best outcome requires compromise with everyone else on your binary side. As I said I'm all for changing the game.... but until then, pretending we have a different game so you can vote "conscience" is pure vanity.

Nader voters were left-side and would prefer D over R by large margin. And if I am wrong in this case. either way, the spoiler principle is well understood and not controversial.

And yet you are asking that third party voters who are opposed to always compromising and taking the "lesser of two evils" ought themselves to compromise.
Of course I am. Unwillingness to compromise in politics is childish. Its "give me every single thing I demand or I'll advance the worst candidate". Thats childish.
 
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