Do we need to be baptized in order to be saved ?

[Eternally Grateful]

After the thousand year wedding celebration, Satan will be released from the pit (which is not Hell) for a short time, and the evil dead will be resurrected (the second resurrection). Then Satan will again lead the evil people in rebellion against God. This will be his last attempt, because he, and all of the evil people, demons, devils, beasts, etc., will be cast into Hell for all eternity.

The Heaven the righteous will enjoy for the thousand years, and then after Judgement in the New heavens and New Earth, will be perfect, sinless, beautiful, tear-less, deathless, etc. We will not be like we are now, but will be changed (1 Cor 15:35-38, 42-49).

lol..ok

Not sure what bible you read. but anyway..

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

nice try

 

[Doug Brents]

lol..ok

Not sure what bible you read. but anyway..

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

nice try

lol indeed

Before the thousand years, Jesus came and killed everyone of the evil ones with the sword coming out of His mouth (Rev 19:20-21). There are none left alive on Earth before the thousand years begin. After the thousand years, the spirits of the evil will be resurrected (this is the second resurrection, as opposed to the first resurrection in which only the righteous will partake (Rev 20:5). Those who partaken in the first resurrection will not fear the second death. But all those who are in the second resurrection will experience the second death (Hell).

 

[Guojing]

The millennium does not take place on Earth. It takes place in Heaven after this world has completely been destroyed (2 Pet 3:10, Rev 20:11, Rev 21:1). I have no idea what the "mark of the beast" is (although it has been suggested that it may be American currency). But it does not come about in the millennium kingdom. It comes during the current age, long before the millennium.

If the 70th week has already passed and you still have "no idea what the "mark of the beast" is", isn't that a contradiction?

 

[Guojing]

No. Baptism is a response to salvation, not a means of salvation. We need to be baptized to be obedient, but not to be saved.

So if we don't get baptized, we are not obedient, what do you think will happen to us?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

lol indeed

Before the thousand years, Jesus came and killed everyone of the evil ones with the sword coming out of His mouth (Rev 19:20-21). There are none left alive on Earth before the thousand years begin. After the thousand years, the spirits of the evil will be resurrected (this is the second resurrection, as opposed to the first resurrection in which only the righteous will partake (Rev 20:5). Those who partaken in the first resurrection will not fear the second death. But all those who are in the second resurrection will experience the second death (Hell).

4 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

New flash my friend. Jesus will not need to rule with a rod of Iron from heaven. for all people while have no ability to sin.

While yes. All unbelievers are wiped out. All people who "endured to the end" Like Jesus said live on, they will have kids. and those kids will be born with the sin nature.

Thats why God said the nations who do not come and worship the king in Jerusalem will be punished.

Again, this is not heaven. if it is. Well your heavan not all that great now is it?

 

[Doug Brents]

If the 70th week has already passed and you still have "no idea what the "mark of the beast" is", isn't that a contradiction?

Where is the mark of the beast mentioned in reference to the 70th week?

 

[Doug Brents]

4 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

New flash my friend. Jesus will not need to rule with a rod of Iron from heaven. for all people while have no ability to sin.

How will He "rule" them? He will rule the nations by destroying them. He will only rule over the righteous during the thousand years of the wedding feast in Heaven.

While yes. All unbelievers are wiped out. All people who "endured to the end" Like Jesus said live on, they will have kids. and those kids will be born with the sin nature.

There won't be any more having of kids after the second coming of Jesus (Luke 20:34-36).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How will He "rule" them? He will rule the nations by destroying them. He will only rule over the righteous during the thousand years of the wedding feast in Heaven.

There won't be any more having of kids after the second coming of Jesus (Luke 20:34-36).

yet the babies will sleep with the lions and not be harmed.

Is 11:
There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse,
And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
3 His delight is in the fear of the Lord,
And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,
Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;
4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,
And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;

This is Jesus

He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
And faithfulness the belt of His waist.

This is when Jesus returns

6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea.
10 “And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse,
Who shall stand as a banner to the people;
For the Gentiles shall seek Him,
And His resting place shall be glorious.”

I suggest you dig into the OT more

 

[Doug Brents]

yet the babies will sleep with the lions and not be harmed.

Is 11:
There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse,
And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
3 His delight is in the fear of the Lord,
And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,
Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;
4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,
And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;

This is Jesus

He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
And faithfulness the belt of His waist.

This is when Jesus returns

6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea.
10 “And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse,
Who shall stand as a banner to the people;
For the Gentiles shall seek Him,
And His resting place shall be glorious.”

I suggest you dig into the OT more

Is this meant to be literally interpreted? No. There is very little in Isaiah that is literal. The vast majority of his book is metaphorical and figurative. Yes, Jesus is the "Root of Jesse", just as He is the one who shall judge the poor.

But this passage is not about about when He returns. This is about His first coming. He brought about peace between the Gentile and the Jew, making the two peoples one again (Eph 2:11-22). And it is the ending of this enmity that Isiah is referring to here. The Jews are the children, lamb, goat, fatling, etc., and the Gentiles are the wolf, leopard, lion, viper, cobra, etc.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Is this meant to be literally interpreted?

yes

all prophecy shoudl be literally interpreted or they lose their meaning and purpose

No. There is very little in Isaiah that is literal. The vast majority of his book is metaphorical and figurative. Yes, Jesus is the "Root of Jesse", just as He is the one who shall judge the poor.

But this passage is not about about when He returns. This is about His first coming. He brought about peace between the Gentile and the Jew, making the two peoples one again (Eph 2:11-22). And it is the ending of this enmity that Isiah is referring to here. The Jews are the children, lamb, goat, fatling, etc., and the Gentiles are the wolf, leopard, lion, viper, cobra, etc.

ok. I am moving on now my friend. Not only do you have a self righteous gospel. Your understanding of prophecy is seriously lacking. and I do not wish to continue with someone who keeps trying to reason something that is not there

 

[Doug Brents]

yes

all prophecy shoudl be literally interpreted or they lose their meaning and purpose

No. Most prophecy is not literal in the least. The kingdom of Babylon was not a "golden" kingdom, any more than the Medo-Persian kingdom was silver, or the Greek kingdom was bronze, or the Roman kingdom iron and iron mixed with clay. Jesus is the Rock, but He is not a literal piece of stone (Dan 2). Very few prophecies are literal in nature.

ok. I am moving on now my friend. Not only do you have a self righteous gospel. Your understanding of prophecy is seriously lacking. and I do not wish to continue with someone who keeps trying to reason something that is not there

lol, my Gospel is not "self-righteous", nor is my understanding of prophecy lacking, just because it differs from yours. But if you want to quit, see ya'.

 

[Guojing]

Where is the mark of the beast mentioned in reference to the 70th week?

At Acts 2, Peter announced to the nation of Israel that they were in the last days as stated in the Joel prophecy. The 70th week was to begin at anytime after that.

After that, do you understand why the early Acts church sold all they owned and lay it on the apostle's feet at Acts 2:44-45 and Acts 4:32, as commanded by Jesus himself in Luke 12:32-33?

That was why Peter and John were certainly not joking to the lame beggar at Acts 3:6 when they said "silver and gold have I none"

When you have no money nor possessions, there will be much less temptation to take the mark of the beast (Rev 13, James 5:1-7), since you have nothing to buy nor sell anyway (Rev 13:17).

And to support the point you are teaching here, during the 70th week, faith alone will not save you.

If you believe in Jesus but take the mark of the beast later, you will still be thrown to hell (Rev 14:9-12)

 

[Guojing]

While yes. All unbelievers are wiped out. All people who "endured to the end" Like Jesus said live on, they will have kids. and those kids will be born with the sin nature.

Thats why God said the nations who do not come and worship the king in Jerusalem will be punished.

Again, this is not heaven. if it is. Well your heavan not all that great now is it?

Do you consider yourself believing in the pre-trib rapture of the Body of Christ?

 

[Doug Brents]

At Acts 2, Peter announced to the nation of Israel that they were in the last days as stated in the Joel prophecy. The 70th week was to begin at anytime after that.

After that, do you understand why the early Acts church sold all they owned and lay it on the apostle's feet at Acts 2:44-45 and Acts 4:32, as commanded by Jesus himself in Luke 12:32-33?

That was why Peter and John were certainly not joking to the lame beggar at Acts 3:6 when they said "silver and gold have I none"

When you have no money nor possessions, there will be much less temptation to take the mark of the beast (Rev 13, James 5:1-7), since you have nothing to buy nor sell anyway (Rev 13:17).

And to support the point you are teaching here, during the 70th week, faith alone will not save you.

If you believe in Jesus but take the mark of the beast later, you will still be thrown to hell (Rev 14:9-12)

Yes, we are in the "last days", and we have been in the last day since the destruction of the Temple in AD70. That (and the events surrounding it) was the last event predicted that must precede the coming of Jesus. That is why some were expecting His return during that generation. But the 70th week has already come and gone. That whole prophecy has been fulfilled, and we are not waiting for any other part of it. The "mark of the beast" is not associated with the prophecy of Dan 9.

 

[Guojing]

Yes, we are in the "last days", and we have been in the last day since the destruction of the Temple in AD70. That (and the events surrounding it) was the last event predicted that must precede the coming of Jesus. That is why some were expecting His return during that generation. But the 70th week has already come and gone. That whole prophecy has been fulfilled, and we are not waiting for any other part of it. The "mark of the beast" is not associated with the prophecy of Dan 9.

You said

1. 70th week had already come and gone
2. That was the last event predicted that must precede the coming of Jesus.
3. That whole prophecy has been fulfilled, and we are not waiting for any other part of it.

So where and when did Jesus return to Earth?

 

[Doug Brents]

You said

1. 70th week had already come and gone
2. That was the last event predicted that must precede the coming of Jesus.
3. That whole prophecy has been fulfilled, and we are not waiting for any other part of it.

So where and when did Jesus return to Earth?

The prophecy of Dan 9 does not state that Jesus will return during, or at the end of, the 70th week. That prophecy must be fulfilled (and it has) before His second coming, but it does not mean that He will return immediately upon its fulfillment.

 

[Guojing]

The prophecy of Dan 9 does not state that Jesus will return during, or at the end of, the 70th week. That prophecy must be fulfilled (and it has) before His second coming, but it does not mean that He will return immediately upon its fulfillment.

So that is how preterists reconcile their doctrine with scripture.

Alright then.

But out of curiosity, how do you reconcile Acts 3:19-21 with your "does not state that Jesus will return during, or at the end of, the 70th week"?

You mean Peter was joking there?

 

[BPPLEE]

I was just wondering does a person need to be baptized in water in order to be saved ?

When I was in ministry I told people they needed to get baptized after they got saved.
Some said "What about the thief on the cross?"
I answered,"If you get crucified we'll make an exception."

 

[Doug Brents]

So that is how preterists reconcile their doctrine with scripture.

Alright then.

But out of curiosity, how do you reconcile Acts 3:19-21 with your "does not state that Jesus will return during, or at the end of, the 70th week"?

You mean Peter was joking there?

What part of Acts 3:19-21 do you think would cause any problems for my understanding of the 70th week already being fulfilled? The 70th week sets in motion the current age of the tribulation. The tribulation is not just that one week, but we have been in the tribulation for the last nearly 2000 years. And it will end only with the second coming which is the end of the world, and there is NO SIGH that we can point to that is yet unfulfilled that will indicate His immanent return; His return is immanent, and has been since the middle of the first century.

 

[Guojing]

What part of Acts 3:19-21 do you think would cause any problems for my understanding of the 70th week already being fulfilled? The 70th week sets in motion the current age of the tribulation. The tribulation is not just that one week, but we have been in the tribulation for the last nearly 2000 years. And it will end only with the second coming which is the end of the world, and there is NO SIGH that we can point to that is yet unfulfilled that will indicate His immanent return; His return is immanent, and has been since the middle of the first century.

Peter said Jesus would return when the nation of Israel repent, which was suppose to take place at the end of the last days, which he said in Acts 2 was already happening.

Was Peter joking?