Do we need to be baptized in order to be saved ?

[ARBITER01]

I have dealt with hi many times before. I keep hoping something will break through, but sadly, it always ends the same

That's because he's not really holding a conversation with you.

I had the same problem also and had to just ignore him. I don't think he's able to socialize with folks very well. He's not the only one on here either. Some folks are outright combative in their posts.

 

[Guojing]

I have dealt with hi many times before. I keep hoping something will break through, but sadly, it always ends the same

All you need to do to ensure that that "something will break through", is to clearly say

"If Noah believed there is a flood but chose not to build an ark, he would still have been saved",

 

[Guojing]

That's because he's not really holding a conversation with you.

I had the same problem also and had to just ignore him. I don't think he's able to socialize with folks very well. He's not the only one on here either. Some folks are outright combative in their posts.

If you don't want to engage with a person, that is your freedom to do so.

But its childish to make snide remarks about that person, at the side, to others who do so.

 

[Aaron112]

So,..... by scripture (our earliest accounts of Christianity),.... the answer is no, a person does not need to be water immersed to be saved, that comes afterwards.

...... and Jesus asked them, why do you all me Lord, Lord, yet do not obey Me ? (those who reject baptism)

 

[ARBITER01]

...... and Jesus asked them, why do you all me Lord, Lord, yet do not obey Me ? (those who reject baptism)

I think you need to take that up with GOD.

Cornelius's household received salvation and then were immediately filled with The Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking on tongues and prophesying. Water immersion was an after thought according to scripture.

So no, water immersion is not required for salvation, belief is, just as Peter said,....

Act 10:43 To him bear all the prophets witness, that through his name every one that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

 

[Aaron112]

I think you need to take that up with GOD.

Did Cornelius obey Jesus ?

 

[ARBITER01]

Did Cornelius obey Jesus ?

I'm just going to have to ignore you. Sorry. You're exhibiting signs that you can't understand basic scripture, which is a telling feature that you possibly lack salvation. Hard to tell, anyways, later.

 

[Aaron112]

If someone does not obey Jesus, they do not recognize truth, and they do not like me.

 

[Aaron112]

p.s. Yes, Cornelius obeyed Jesus.
If someone says they believe, but they do not obey Jesus, they are not honest.(nor saved)

 

[com7fy8]

I was just wondering does a person need to be baptized in water in order to be saved ?

In order to be saved, a person needs to trust in Jesus > our Apostle Paul says >

"we who first trusted in Christ" (in Ephesians 1:12).

So, my opinion is a person needs to realize who Jesus is and come to personally trust Jesus. And because the person trusts Jesus, the person submits to Jesus and does what Jesus has us do.

So, what does Jesus have us do? If we are committed to Jesus, what does He want?

Well, of course, every person needs to repent.

And Jesus wants us to deny ourselves and follow Him >

"If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23)

Here, Jesus does not say, let him be immersed in water. But Jesus says, "let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me".

So, I would say we need to make sure we have done the *heart* things of trusting in Christ, denying ourselves, and taking up what Jesus means by our "cross".

Physical water baptism is outward. What good is it if we have not done the heart things??

So, if God wants water baptism, it needs to be done along with the heart things. And this can be good. I mean and offer > Jesus says,

"'Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.'" (Matthew 10:32)

When we get baptized, this can be a way of confessing Jesus "before men", I would say.

So, do not make baptism just an idol.

"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death?" Romans 6:3)

This does not say we were baptized into water. But we "were baptized into His death." And Jesus says to take up our "cross", right?

So, what comes with the cross and death of Jesus? Obedience and being pleasing to our Father > > > and being ***all-loving*** > > >

"for if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

A tub of water can not turn you into an all-loving person!! Physical water of its physical self can not make you pleasing to our Father like Jesus was "a sweet-smelling aroma" (Ephesians 5:2) on the cross.

So, you might take a look at what is getting people's attention. There are people who can be very emotional and judgmental about outward physical baptism, and they never say a word about how to become pleasing to God like Jesus and all-loving like Jesus on the cross. So, they could be making baptism an idol of *attention*. Ones can make it an idol as a requirement or as a sign of salvation . . . either way, calling too much attention to it and not dealing with the heart essentials.

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

 

[Danthemailman]

I think you need to take that up with GOD.

Cornelius's household received salvation and then were immediately filled with The Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking on tongues and prophesying. Water immersion was an after thought according to scripture.

So no, water immersion is not required for salvation, belief is, just as Peter said,....

Act 10:43 To him bear all the prophets witness, that through his name every one that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Amen! These Gentiles in Acts 10 clearly believed on Him, received remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues (spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) These Gentiles were clearly saved before water baptism and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. (Romans 8:9; 1 John 4:13)

Now of course, receiving water baptism was a command (Acts 10:48) that these Gentiles were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to that command that saved them, but their believing on Him (Jesus Christ) for salvation (Acts 10:43) which is in perfect harmony with numerous other passages of Scripture. (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 11:17; 13:39; 16:31; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 10:4; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's because he's not really holding a conversation with you.

I had the same problem also and had to just ignore him. I don't think he's able to socialize with folks very well. He's not the only one on here either. Some folks are outright combative in their posts.

he is focused on one thing. We call this having faulty side vision.. You are so focused on what you are trying to push. that you can not see anything else

 

[Eternally Grateful]

...... and Jesus asked them, why do you all me Lord, Lord, yet do not obey Me ? (those who reject baptism)

who rejects baptism? In my 40 years in Christianity, The only person I have ever met who did not get baptized was my sister in law. Who had a genetic disease and had tubes coming out of her head to shunt the pressure. and could not be baptized.

She passed away about 5 years later. and is with our lord today

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did Cornelius obey Jesus ?

More importantly. Was he saved before he obeyed. or was he saved because he obeyed?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In order to be saved, a person needs to trust in Jesus > our Apostle Paul says >

"we who first trusted in Christ" (in Ephesians 1:12).

So, my opinion is a person needs to realize who Jesus is and come to personally trust Jesus. And because the person trusts Jesus, the person submits to Jesus and does what Jesus has us do.

So, what does Jesus have us do? If we are committed to Jesus, what does He want?

Well, of course, every person needs to repent.

And Jesus wants us to deny ourselves and follow Him >

"If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23)

Here, Jesus does not say, let him be immersed in water. But Jesus says, "let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me".

So, I would say we need to make sure we have done the *heart* things of trusting in Christ, denying ourselves, and taking up what Jesus means by our "cross".

Physical water baptism is outward. What good is it if we have not done the heart things??

So, if God wants water baptism, it needs to be done along with the heart things. And this can be good. I mean and offer > Jesus says,

"'Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.'" (Matthew 10:32)

When we get baptized, this can be a way of confessing Jesus "before men", I would say.

So, do not make baptism just an idol.

"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death?" Romans 6:3)

This does not say we were baptized into water. But we "were baptized into His death." And Jesus says to take up our "cross", right?

So, what comes with the cross and death of Jesus? Obedience and being pleasing to our Father > > > and being ***all-loving*** > > >

"for if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

A tub of water can not turn you into an all-loving person!! Physical water of its physical self can not make you pleasing to our Father like Jesus was "a sweet-smelling aroma" (Ephesians 5:2) on the cross.

So, you might take a look at what is getting people's attention. There are people who can be very emotional and judgmental about outward physical baptism, and they never say a word about how to become pleasing to God like Jesus and all-loving like Jesus on the cross. So, they could be making baptism an idol of *attention*. Ones can make it an idol as a requirement or as a sign of salvation . . . either way, calling too much attention to it and not dealing with the heart essentials.

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

Yhe important part is

1. How are we saved (by grace through faith or by faith plus works)
2. Why are we obeying (lookin g to earn something to get something back,. or because we Love as Jesus loves, and do it out of this gratitude, and expect nothing in return)

If i say I believe Jesus, Yet believe that me being immersed in water is my salvic act. Then is my faith in Jesus? Or is it in my act of obedience?

on the other hand, If I receive the grace of God in faith. and understand I am saved. And then proceed to do the works Paul said I was created to do. then I was saved before I did any work.. My faith is in Christ

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! These Gentiles in Acts 10 clearly believed on Him, received remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues (spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) These Gentiles were clearly saved before water baptism and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. (Romans 8:9; 1 John 4:13)

Now of course, receiving water baptism was a command (Acts 10:48) that these Gentiles were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to that command that saved them, but their believing on Him (Jesus Christ) for salvation (Acts 10:43) which is in perfect harmony with numerous other passages of Scripture. (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 11:17; 13:39; 16:31; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 10:4; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

I like how in Chapter 11 we are told what peter thought.

Acts 11:16
Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

It was Holy Spirit baptism which saved them, THEN they went and got baptized in water

 

[Doug Brents]

most excellent passage. He told them to forgive them prety much every time

whats more amazing, he never told them to wait t until the other asked them to forgive them, he said just forgive.

thats what God does for us. And we should do to others.

For those who are in Christ, yes, He continually forgives us without our asking. But for those who are not in Christ, He does not forgive (if He did, then they would not be bound for Hell, as they are).

But you miss the point I was making. Repentance is a continual action, a continual state of turning our face toward God. Again, it is like walking in the woods. There is absolutely no way to walk through the woods without deviating slightly from your path to go around trees every few feet. And if you do not continually make course corrections you will end up irretrievably lost. So you must repent, turn from the wrong direction (any direction but the one that will take you to your proper destination) and head toward the proper destination again.

If he would have commited some serious sins, or stopped serving people. The title would have done him no good. He would have lost his ability. Because he would have lost his audience.

Peter committed a serious sin (hypocrisy) and he lead many others into sin along with himself. Yet he did not lose his position, or authority, or ability, or his audience.

Are you washed in the blood or are you waiting to see if you continue to walk or not?

I was washed in the Blood when I was late 13 or early 14 years old. And I have been continually walking with God ever since. It has been a struggle to walk with Him sometimes, and I have made many mistakes along the way, but as Paul said, I continually work to keep my body in line so that I will not be disqualified from Heaven.

I have it now. Otherwise God lied.

You are saying that your flesh will never die? No, you do not have eternal life now. You have the promise that if you finish this life in Christ you will receive the reward of eternal life with Him in Heaven rather than eternal death in Hell without Him. But none of us has eternal life already.

No. We have the promise of eternal life the moment we recieved his free gift in faith.

We have the promise, not the effect, of eternal life in that moment. We receive salvation, not not the effect of it (eternal life) in this life.

Once again my friend.

I do not believe in a doctrine, I believe in the promises of God

You believe a doctrine, not "in" a doctrine. And the doctrine you believe (OSAS) is a false doctrine.

I believe I am unworthy, and lost.

If you are still lost and unworthy then you are not saved and do not even have the promise of eternal life.

And apart from the grace of God purchased buy his son on the cross. I have no hope. My hope is in him and his promises.

Amen

Your hope is in how well you walk.

Not at all. My hope is in His promise to keep me in Him if I walk with Him. As with Saul, who walked with God in his youth, but he left God and so God did not continue to uphold him, if we cease to walk with Him he will cease to uphold us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For those who are in Christ, yes, He continually forgives us without our asking. But for those who are not in Christ, He does not forgive (if He did, then they would not be bound for Hell, as they are).

Yes, For the saved, he forgives unconditionally

for the lost. He forgives them too. But they are still condemned, because of unbelief.

He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already.

Thank you for agreeing with me

But you miss the point I was making. Repentance is a continual action, a continual state of turning our face toward God. Again, it is like walking in the woods. There is absolutely no way to walk through the woods without deviating slightly from your path to go around trees every few feet. And if you do not continually make course corrections you will end up irretrievably lost. So you must repent, turn from the wrong direction (any direction but the one that will take you to your proper destination) and head toward the proper destination again.

Then your under law not under grace.

On one mind you say God forgives unconditionally and now your saying he does not. which is it?

Peter committed a serious sin (hypocrisy) and he lead many others into sin along with himself. Yet he did not lose his position, or authority, or ability, or his audience.

I was washed in the Blood when I was late 13 or early 14 years old. And I have been continually walking with God ever since. It has been a struggle to walk with Him sometimes, and I have made many mistakes along the way, but as Paul said, I continually work to keep my body in line so that I will not be disqualified from Heaven.

1. You can not be disqualified from heaven
2. read your words. it is all about you in this paragraph.
3. You said the word I 5 times. Your focus is on self. Not god.

You are saying that your flesh will never die? No, you do not have eternal life now.

It will die. but my soul will never die.

Your argument is with jesus

He said whoever believes will never perish (die) and will live forever (eternal life)

This one verse alone shows you are in error. and I have many many more

You have the promise that if you finish this life in Christ you will receive the reward of eternal life with Him in Heaven rather than eternal death in Hell without Him. But none of us has eternal life already.

No. I have the promise I will spend all eternity with him.

Now any reward i receive on judgment day, Yes, i have to earn them, by my works.

eternal life is a gift not a reward.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We have the promise, not the effect, of eternal life in that moment.

Yes I have the promise, which I am confident as paul is that I will recieve.

We receive salvation, not not the effect of it (eternal life) in this life.

Jesus said I have (present tense) eternal life. Read the book of John

John said I have eternal life now, read his epistles.

Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord. He understood where he would be, and it is the confidence that allowed him to take his suffering and consider it a momentary light affliction

You believe a doctrine, not "in" a doctrine. And the doctrine you believe (OSAS) is a false doctrine.

I could care less about OSAS. I never even heard the word until I got in a Christian chat room.

I believe in eternal security, I believe I have been saved, I believe I have been adopted into Gods family, I believe he who began a good work in me will complete it. I believe I have the seal of the spirit. and with this, I am headed to heaven.

If you are still lost and unworthy then you are not saved and do not even have the promise of eternal life.

You rright, If you are lost you are unworthy.

I was found 40 years ago,. and am no longer lost.

Amen

Not at all. My hope is in His promise to keep me in Him if I walk with Him.

You can have assurance, Paul told you this

Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

God said he will complete it. Not that he may or may not complete it

And it is not based on how good or bad you are (you will never be good enough) it is based on his son.

As with Saul, who walked with God in his youth, but he left God and so God did not continue to uphold him, if we cease to walk with Him he will cease to uphold us.

You assume saul was ever saved. I see no evidence of this.

I believe God walked with him as leader of his nation. But that does not mean he was saved.

 

[Aaron112]

More importantly. Was he saved before he obeyed. or was he saved because he obeyed?

That's the deception. Often used. If someone says they have faith, but they do not obey Jesus, they are not true. They are not saved. Whoever, whatever, they obey, that is their lord.

Remember, if Jesus says "why do you call me Lord..." and do not do what I say," that is key.

Do what Jesus Says. Always.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's the deception. Often used. If someone says they have faith, but they do not obey Jesus, they are not true.

1. Thats for God to decide.
2. Do you think God is incapable of determining if someones faith is real or not?
3. Who determined if one has works or not?

They are not saved. Whoever, whatever, they obey, that is their lord.

If they have faith, they are saved. Before they do one work

Remember, if Jesus says "why do you call me Lord..." and do not do what I say," that is key.

He also said many will come to him showing themn all their works. and crying out. And he will say depart from me for I never knew you

People who have faith will work..

Those who do nit. may work. but only God knows these works are filthy rags, because they are motivated by seif.. You and I can not know that.

Do what Jesus Says. Always.

Well if we could always do it. we could be perfect and would not need saved.

But we failed. are failing and will continue to fail to be perfect. hence we need grace to be saved,, so in faith trust Christ