• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Do we inherit the Original Sin from Adam and Eve or just the consequences?

Status
Not open for further replies.

calvinroyal

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2008
33
1
Visit site
✟15,158.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
If Jesus's father was a man, not God, then Jesus wouldn't have been divine.

The virgin birth of Mary has nothing to do with "inherited" sin.

It is about His divinity.

By the way - I don't believe Jesus was "quasi-human" either.

Jesus was, and is, fully man and fully God.

Fully man, because he was conceived of a woman; fully God because he was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

Hebrew 2:14, 17 "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil...For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people"
Hi Holyrokker,
I wanted to share with you that I am a proponent of traducianism, which believes that our natures are received from our parents. This is not a transfer of sin per-se but a transfer of nature. I am also a trichotemist which means I believe we have three parts to our nature. (body, soul, spirit). Furthermore I'm a Calvinist, which my views come accross offensive to some I'm sure. Anyways I thought I'd share that in case you haven't heard of these things. I can explain the views later if you'd like. (with the exception of Calvinism because it is outside of the context of the post). Anyways God bless I'll chat later.
Calvin
 
Upvote 0

holyrokker

Contributor
Sep 4, 2004
9,390
1,750
California
Visit site
✟20,850.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
calvinroyal,
I assumed (from your username) that you are a Calvinist.
I'm quite familiar with the terms and ideas that you've mentioned.

I'm also very well acquainted with Calvin's ideas and the system of theology built around his ideas.

I hope we can continue our thoughtful discussions.

As you've no doubt noticed, I agree with you in that sin is not received from our parents.

I view sin as a moral problem, not a genetic problem. I think we can both agree that the Bible is quite clear that sin is a moral failure.

Where I'm sure you will disagree with me is that I do not see scriptural support of the notion that humanity if sinful by nature.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
No, we do not inherit sin. Sin is not a physical problem. It is a moral problem.

Romans 5 does NOT say that we inherit sin. It says that "sin entered the world through one man, and death spread to all men because all have sinned."

It does NOt say "Sin entered mankind through one man, and sin spread to all men because Adam sinned."

What it says is:

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offense, so also is the free gift. For if through the offense of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. (Rom 5:14,15)​

It says sin entered by one man and death by sin. It is also clear that even those who don't commit the sin of Adam are still under the curse. The Scriptures are clear that sin is an absence of righteousness and babies while innocent cannot be considered righteous in the Biblical sense. In the Old Testament and the ancient world if you were in debt the legal remedy could be casting you and your family into slavery in order to satisfy the debt. The issue is not one of offenses that occur but the lack of the means to satisfy the debt of sin. Paul makes it clear throughout the book of Romans that we are born in sin and that all are both aware of God's divine nature and that our conscience testifies against us that we are in fact sinners, whether by acts of commission or acts of omission.

James 1:14-15 says "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death."

James is addressing issues in a church that has fallen into error. These people had already received the Word of God and been born of the Spirit:

James 1:21 "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls."​

The temptations he is talking about are more like the weeds that grow up around the word and chock it out before it can bear fruit and quite possibly persecution.

Luke 8:11-15 "This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop."​

They had heard the Gospel and had received it but were in danger of having it choked out by carnality and persecution. Paul is addressing the same kind of mistreatment in his first letter to the Corinthians where the poor were deprived in the love feasts. Some would stuff themselves and even get drunk while others left hungry.

I Cor. 11:21 "For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken."​

Paul says that they had failed to discern the body of Christ and for that:

I Cor 11:30 "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."​

Paul would go on in chapter 12 to describe how the body of Christ works together for the good over all and the mutual dependence. In chapter 13 he would describe the agape love of God which we know from Galations is the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22) and from John is the mark of a disciple (John 15:8)

James calls this the royal law:

James 2:8 "If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right."​

Sin is not already present. Sin is born inside the individual heart.

Light has distinct properties and is known to be composed of seven colors. Darkness is simply that absence of light, sin is the void brought on by the absence of the righteousness of God. Our sin is not imputed to us until we are confronted by the law at which time it is exposed. It is exposed by the revelation of the righteousness that is revealed in Christ, unto all and upon all that believe.

Children are under the curse of sin whether they commit offenses or not, even being innocent they fall short of the glory of God. However you could make the case that their guilt is not imputed to them since they are innocent and don't understand either from conscience or the Law the righteousness of God. That in no way is the righteousness of God in Christ and if all sin and sin begins in the human heart then sin is already present or some might not choose to sin which is impossible. What you are talking about has been rejected by Catholic and Evangelical scholars as Pelagianism, a belief that Adam injured only himself. Were it not true that we inherited Adam's sin whether physically or spiritually then we could decided to be righteous by our own free will. If this is true, then Christ died for nothing.

I wouldn't be so hasty to jump to conclusions about Romans 5, you might want to take some time and think it through.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

holyrokker

Contributor
Sep 4, 2004
9,390
1,750
California
Visit site
✟20,850.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
we inhereit sin in us..:) Why because Adam and Eve were sinners.. All humans are born in Sin and with sin dwelling in them..Not one is righteous.. This is why one must be born again..:)
This would make sin a genetic problem. A genetic problem means that sin is physical. That would mean, then, that Christ died in vain since he could have healed us physically without having to die.
 
Upvote 0
M

MamaZ

Guest
This would make sin a genetic problem. A genetic problem means that sin is physical. That would mean, then, that Christ died in vain since he could have healed us physically without having to die.
It is both physical and Spiritual.. For one out of one die..Only those born again have eternal life..

Do not all mens bodies die? Yes they do.. For it is appointed that all men shall die then comes the judgement.. Have you believed in Christ. Are you born again? for there is also a second death to those whom have rejected Christ and try to get in another way by good works.
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,815
1,923
✟990,436.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I am not sure where to begin with this.

You need to understand what all we learned from the Garden, Adam and Eve. The Garden is the kind of place God really wants every person to be in and the place we think we would want to be. The Garden gives us confidence that there is a heavenly home. Adam and Eve were the best human representatives we could have: They were physically the best (a body that could last forever with the help of the tree of life, they were mentally as good as you can get since their brains had not been the result of any gene mutations, and they were raised (programmed) to maturity by the best parent you could have, God and they were in the best place on earth. The problem is the Garden is a lousy place for humans to fulfill their objective in life and Adam and Eve prove that. The objective of life is to obtain Godly type Love so we can Love God and others with this Love. If we truly have Godly type Love for God we will obey Him. In the Garden there was a way to obey God, but there was no need to accept God’s Love as a free undeserving gift. Adam and Eve would love God with a wonderful Child’s love for a wonderful parent, but that is an instinctive type love and not fully a Godly type Love that Loves in spite of the person being Loved. There was no reason for Adam and Eve to humble themselves, since they had done nothing wrong, and accept God’s Love.
Inside the Garden, Adam and Eve’s eternal close relationship was dependent on their personal ability to obey, while outside the Garden after sinning their eternal close relationship with God was dependent on God’s mercy/grace/Love/forgiveness. A system of being in a heaven on earth type situation and trying to accept Godly type Love and Love as a result does not work. A system of living on earth for a short time to accept Godly type Love in the form of forgiveness and then dying so we can be in a eternal Loving relationship in heaven works great. The problem is God has to quench His own desires and allow: satan to roam around, Christ to go to the cross, tragedies of all kinds, death, hell and even sin to happen.
 
Upvote 0

hlaltimus

Senior Member
Nov 4, 2005
849
75
Arizona
✟1,553.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
We all are born with a sinful nature, true, but none of us ever got it from our parents precisely speaking, we got it from our fathers and they got it from Adam through a steady succession of their fathers: "...visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me" Exodus 20:5b. Always "of the fathers" and never "of the mothers", but why? The problem comes from carrying over our biology lessons from the physical realm and into the spiritual realm unmolested, and it's an easy mistake to make. You see, when it comes to constructing a new baby boy or girl, the Lord obviously needs (!!!) both a father and a mother to effect this wonderful, physical creation, but He only needed one of the two to impart a nature into that child. A mother has half of the genes necessary for a new born child and the same can be said for the father, but....That same mother or father has all of a human nature residing in her or him, so the Lord only really needs one of the two to impart a human nature into a newly conceived baby and He chose to do it through the father so as not to violate the precedent already set by creating Adam first and then Eve subordinately from and after Adam. We all received our human natures from our Dad's only, our genetic code from both Dad and Mom, and our construction only from Mom, so the credits are fairly evenly distributed.

For this reason, the serpent only tempted Eve first in order only to gain a window of opportunity to strike Adam, his real target. If satan had only succeeded in corrupting Eve, he would have then gained Eve but no more, but if satan succeeded, (which he did,) in corrupting both Adam and Eve, he would have then gained Eve, Adam and the entire human race which received it's nature through the father/prototype Adam who was then the sole federal head of our race and no one else...THEN! A profound world of potential for both evil and good, and one which our dear Lord Jesus has used to both His and our advantage NOW! Every christian man and woman has received a new, pristine, flawless and righteous godly nature from one and only one...Christ, just as we in the past received an unrighteous nature from one and only one...Adam, only through a succession of males from Adam. What worked against the human race in Adam is now very much our eternal spring of new born hope in Christ: A race which bears the nature of One, and one is all we will ever need with such a glorious divine and human Mediator.
 
Upvote 0

champuru

I don't know what I want to put here. Suggestions?
Jan 5, 2008
464
23
Infront of my computer
✟23,230.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
Hi everyone. :wave: I am intending for this to be a debate thread between the two views. First of all, please state your view, then state why you believe this. You only have to do this to start with that way it gives a better basis on which to debate. I'll start.

I believe that we actually inherit the actual sin (original sin) from Adam and Eve and that we do not inherit only the consequences. I believe this because I believe it is Biblical.

[BIBLE]Romans 3:23[/BIBLE]

I believe that this teaches that all have sinned, including infants. How can an infant sin? I don't know exactly but this is clearly what this verse teaches in my opinion.

I believe we each die for our own sin. As it says in Jeremiah 31:30 "Instead, everyone will die for his own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—his own teeth will be set on edge."
 
Upvote 0

BrotherHicks

Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
Mar 25, 2009
49
2
Visit site
✟22,680.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Private
No, we do not inherit sin. Sin is not a physical problem. It is a moral problem.

Romans 5 does NOT say that we inherit sin. It says that "sin entered the world through one man, and death spread to all men because all have sinned."

It does NOt say "Sin entered mankind through one man, and sin spread to all men because Adam sinned."

James 1:14-15 says "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death."

Sin is not already present. Sin is born inside the individual heart.

Very well put.
 
Upvote 0

BrotherHicks

Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
Mar 25, 2009
49
2
Visit site
✟22,680.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Private
The concept of original sin has some problems, because it logically leads to the Lord Jesus Christ being born a sinner.

Hebrews 2:16-18
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
 
Upvote 0

BrotherHicks

Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
Mar 25, 2009
49
2
Visit site
✟22,680.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Private
If God is making children in the womb in sin, forming them in sin, then what do we do with the actual teaching of the Scripture that man is born upright but they choose out many inventions? The teaching of original sin has been used as an excuse for low living and has been used to throw out personal responsibility.

Ecclesiastes 7:29
29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
 
Upvote 0

BrotherHicks

Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
Mar 25, 2009
49
2
Visit site
✟22,680.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Private
Original sin is also contrary to the justice of God. God has revealed each person is responsible for their own personal sins and not the sins of a relative.

Ezekiel 18:19-20
19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.