Do we have "potential" after death...?

[Light of the East]

From another board discussing Purgatory:

Come on, you aren't disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with Thomas Aquinas and the teaching of the universal Church that human beings CANNOT CHANGE after death.

If this is so, then I fail to understand the purgative and restorative nature of Christ's love and its interaction with our soul upon death. If I die without my passions being changed, then I remain in that state forever????

GOD FORBID!!!!

Death is not an arbitrary threshold here, the reason why people cannot change after death is that change involves the actualization of potential, and for human beings, and indeed, for all created things, all realization of potential is guided towards God as its end and final purpose.

Someone explain what the author is speaking of here, please, and put it in language for the stupid one here.

Once one is dead, one has either achieved this final purpose and become fully united with God, in which case, one never changes beyond that point because there is no more potential left to be realized, one has ALREADY ACHIEVED one's full potential and there is no potential left to be actualized, or, one has been permanently separated from God, in which case, one will NEVER achieve one's full potential, so, again, there is no more potential left to be actualized.

Oh, I think I get it! You are either legally forgiven and in a "state of grace" or you are "guilty as charged" and in a state of death. The passions, the idea of being healed, is not in view here. If I am understanding this correctly, this smacks of the Roman legal mindset of salvation - a transaction -which would explain why the Romans think they can make transactions (Indulgences) for the dead and buy them into heaven.

Thus, in either case, change after death is IMPOSSIBLE. This is not my argument, this is Thomas Aquinas' argument.

So, no, one does not and CANNOT 'become holier' in purgatory, because becoming holier involves an actualization of potential, but there is no potential left to be actualized.

To which I say "bunk!" If it is an issue of dying with untamed passions that need to be put to rest, and those passions, acted out on earth, are precisely what make us unholy, then I would say that we most certainly do become more holy in the next life when the fire of Christ's passionate love burns away all that is not like Him.

You need to think again.

You need to become Orthodox.

 

[Light of the East]

Seven views and no answers???

Come on, people, I need some help here....


FATHER!!!!! WHERE ARE YOU??????

 

[ArmyMatt]

what is the point of this post?

 

[“Paisios”]

Seven views and no answers???

Come on, people, I need some help here....


FATHER!!!!! WHERE ARE YOU??????

I don’t have an answer but am interested in this discussion.

 

[archer75]

I didn't follow.

 

[icxn]

While the condemned cannot do anything (no potential) to change their condition, the prayers of the Church both down here and up there have that power. Which brings us to the other issue, the saved will always make progress towards God, their potential (to know God) is never actualized as God is infinite.

 

[Light of the East]

what is the point of this post?

It's a post on Purgatory. If you want to scan the whole thread you can do so here:

The Catholic Message Board • View topic - The Purpose of Purgatory

The point is me getting more understanding of the Orthodox viewpoint of life after death (a good thing) and refuting Roman Catholic errors (an even better thing).

 

[Light of the East]

While the condemned cannot do anything (no potential) to change their condition, the prayers of the Church both down here and up there have that power. Which brings us to the other issue, the saved will always make progress towards God, their potential (to know God) is never actualized as God is infinite.

Good response.

This is kinda my feeling also. The OP on the other board is trying to make the point that we are "locked in" to whatever spiritual state we are in upon death. I don't see that, as you state we will always make progress towards God but never fulfill that as God is infinite.

But it seems like the Roman Catholics are trying to have their cake and eat it too by saying that one is locked into the state that they die in and yet Purgatory somehow changes that person. I guess if you view Purgatory as a payment for sins that are not expiated, then I could see that. In other words, you are legally forgiven and will get the Beatific Vision, but you still need to pay for the unconfessed sins.

It has nothing - NADA - to do with the healing of the soul. All based in a forensic understanding.

 

[Not David]

I thought Purgatory was a dogma for all Catholics.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It's a post on Purgatory. If you want to scan the whole thread you can do so here:

The Catholic Message Board • View topic - The Purpose of Purgatory

The point is me getting more understanding of the Orthodox viewpoint of life after death (a good thing) and refuting Roman Catholic errors (an even better thing).

I guess what specifically are you looking for us to refute?

 

[Light of the East]

I guess what specifically are you looking for us to refute?

I guess what I want to be sure I understand correctly is the idea that the soul is not stuck in the state in which it dies (which seems to be the Roman Catholic understanding they are putting forth as presented by Aquinas) but rather that our theosis continues after we die.

Unless I have misunderstood their position.

 

[Light of the East]

I thought Purgatory was a dogma for all Catholics.

Well, I'm not Roman Catholic, so there.

We don't even have it in our Catechism book.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I guess what I want to be sure I understand correctly is the idea that the soul is not stuck in the state in which it dies (which seems to be the Roman Catholic understanding they are putting forth as presented by Aquinas) but rather that our theosis continues after we die.

Unless I have misunderstood their position.

yeah, theosis never ends.