Do the Orthodox agree with this?

[LCMS Lutheran]

I was reading an article about the Orthodox and their teachings and I came across this section dealing with the Nicene Creed. My question: Is this statement true? Is that truly why the Orthodox reject the filioque?

The Orthodox reject the filioque because the filioque anchors the Holy Spirit to Jesus. Acceptance of the filioque would be a tacit admission that Jesus Christ is THE definitive revelation of Who the Triune God is.

 

[Llauralin]

I have no idea if that's true, but it's an odd way of putting things in any case. In Orthodoxy class Father said that the Orthodox Church rejects the filoque because they do not believe it to be true, it would be changing set doctrine, and a council was never actually called to discuss the issua (what with all the political stuff going on).

 

[Maximus]

I was reading an article about the Orthodox and their teachings and I came across this section dealing with the Nicene Creed. My question: Is this statement true? Is that truly why the Orthodox reject the filioque?

The Orthodox reject the filioque because the filioque anchors the Holy Spirit to Jesus. Acceptance of the filioque would be a tacit admission that Jesus Christ is THE definitive revelation of Who the Triune God is.

NO!

The reasons we reject the filioque are basically two:

1. It is an unjustified and unjustifiable alteration of the original language of
the the Nicene Creed, the Symbol of Faith for all true Christians;

2. It can represent an erroneous theology if interpreted to signify a dual
procession of the Holy Spirit.

God the Father is the Fount and Source of the Godhead. He eternally begets His Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him by an eternal procession.

Some of the Church Fathers taught that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son. Such an interpretation might make the filioque acceptable, but its present wording is too open to an erroneous understanding.

Besides that, why monkey with the Nicene Creed when it was already perfect and altering it was forbidden at the Council of Ephesus (431)?

 

[eoe]

Well done Maximus!
darn rep nazi's

 

[LCMS Lutheran]

Thank you for your quick responses. This didn't sound right at all when I first read it. I personally don't accept the filioque... My academic advisor (at a Lutheran school) sent me this article when I told him I was interested in Orthodoxy and that I disagreed with a lot of things Protestants teach. He also told me that having icons in the Church is a pagan practice and that it is similar to "using voo doo dolls." Wow. I also noticed some other errors in the article too, which really is sad because people will read this and get the wrong impression of the Orthodox faith.
Anyway, thanks again and please keep me in your prayers.

 

[Maximus]

Thank you for your quick responses. This didn't sound right at all when I first read it. I personally don't accept the filioque... My academic advisor (at a Lutheran school) sent me this article when I told him I was interested in Orthodoxy and that I disagreed with a lot of things Protestants teach. He also told me that having icons in the Church is a pagan practice and that it is similar to "using voo doo dolls." Wow. I also noticed some other errors in the article too, which really is sad because people will read this and get the wrong impression of the Orthodox faith.
Anyway, thanks again and please keep me in your prayers.

I gots dem darn voodoo dolls in me house, too!

 

[Knee V]

I was at a book store and saw a book with a title similar to "The Protestant Reformation For Dummies", but with a slightly different title. Anyway, it had a section about the Orthodox church (I forget the context and why that section was there). It said, roughly, "The Orthodox changed the creed by adding to it a clause from a council in Toledo, Spain" (not an exact quote, but almost). I couldn't believe what I was reading. And no, it wasn't a typo, meaning to say Catholic. The section was about Orthodoxy.

 

[Llauralin]

I was at a book store and saw a book with a title similar to "The Protestant Reformation For Dummies", but with a slightly different title. Anyway, it had a section about the Orthodox church (I forget the context and why that section was there). It said, roughly, "The Orthodox changed the creed by adding to it a clause from a council in Toledo, Spain" (not an exact quote, but almost). I couldn't believe what I was reading. And no, it wasn't a typo, meaning to say Catholic. The section was about Orthodoxy.

Well, it is for dummies after all... I guess now you know why - because they can get away with just making things up to avoid actually doing any research.

 

[Maximus]

I was at a book store and saw a book with a title similar to "The Protestant Reformation For Dummies", but with a slightly different title. Anyway, it had a section about the Orthodox church (I forget the context and why that section was there). It said, roughly, "The Orthodox changed the creed by adding to it a clause from a council in Toledo, Spain" (not an exact quote, but almost). I couldn't believe what I was reading. And no, it wasn't a typo, meaning to say Catholic. The section was about Orthodoxy.

Are you sure that title wasn't The Protestant Reformation BY Dummies?

 

[Oblio]

Was Dave Hunt on the advisory council ? Oh wait, you said Reformation for Dummies.

 

[Oblio]

LOL !

Now THAT is a simulpost

 

[Llauralin]

 

[Maximus]

Was Dave Hunt on the advisory council ? Oh wait, you said Reformation for Dummies.

Did you know Dave Hunt's real name was Richard?

He was once interviewed by Barbara Walters, who kept referring to him as Witch Hunt.

Dave liked it too much, so his friends recommended he change his name to Dave.

(That's an old apocryphal story I just made up.)

 

[Oblio]

Perhaps the statement quoted in the OP was a distortion of the concern that the filioque diminished the relationship and equality of the Holy Spirit in the Trinity. It doesn't exactly centralize Christ, but it does go in that direction.

 

[Rilian]

Anyway, thanks again and please keep me in your prayers.

Hi LCMS Lutheran. Feel free to ask any additional questions. There are a number of former Lutherans here at TAW. The priest at the mother parish of my church is a former LCMS pastor.

 

[LCMS Lutheran]

The Orthodox reject the filioque because the filioque anchors the Holy Spirit to Jesus. Acceptance of the filioque would be a tacit admission that Jesus Christ is THE definitive revelation of Who the Triune God is.

Remember, Orthodoxy is all about man's participation in the divine life of God. Man participates in this mysterious divine life through the work of the Holy Spirit. The filioque would limit the Holy Spirit to testifying about Jesus. And Orthodoxy needs the Holy Spirit to do more than just that.

The truth is, Orthodoxy wants to move beyond the revelation of God in the life death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, into the mysterious inner life and workings of the Trinity.

We usually talk about the person and work of Christ. There's no disagreement with the Orthodox over the person of Christ. In this respect, Orthodoxy's Christology is very "orthodox" indeed. However, the same cannot be said when it comes to Orthodoxy's view of the work of Christ.

The question is, "What did Jesus come to do?" Scripture says that Jesus came to save sinners. By "sinners" Scripture means fallen man, dead in trespasses and sins. By "save" Scripture means that, because of Jesus' perfect life, death and resurrection, God restores sinners to a perfect relationship with Himself by forgiving their sins and declaring them righteous for Jesus' sake.

The Orthodox would affirm that "Jesus came to save sinners," but they would define the words very differently.


This is a little more of the article from section dealing with the Creed.

 

[Maximus]

Hi LCMS Lutheran. Feel free to ask any additional questions. There are a number of former Lutherans here at TAW. The priest at the mother parish of my church is a former LCMS pastor.

I'm one of those former Lutherans.

LCMS as a matter of fact.

Still have a lot of affection for the LCMS.

 

[ByzantineDixie]

Hey there LCMS Lutheran...this is the former Luthers Rose...I believe we had some dialog in TCCL a while ago. The whole article by Todd Wilken can be found in McCain's blog here. I read it earlier today.

Lots of problems with what Wilken says. He is not the most knowledgable Lutheran pastor on Eastern Orthodoxy...although I would say for the most part the more knowledgeable Lutheran pastors on Orthodoxy...aren't Lutheran any longer!

 

[Matrona]

What exactly is this article from? Who wrote it?

Edit: Thanks, Dixie.

 

[Rilian]

Lots of problems with what Wilken says. He is not the most knowledgable Lutheran pastor on Eastern Orthodoxy...although I would say for the most part the more knowledgeable Lutheran pastors on Orthodoxy...aren't Lutheran any longer!

Dixie, I ran across this article on Clifton Healy's blog the other day. Is this the same person you're talking about? I didn't listen to the radio show.