Do the modern day members of the Christian clergy still believe?

[Daniel Peres]

Several wise Christians have given a similar description regarding the eternal fate that many of the clergy probably suffer. These beliefs have been around since the ancient days of the church.

Below is a list of many of these types of quotes:

“The floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.” – ST. ATHANASIUS, COUNCIL OF NICAEA, AD 325.

“The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts” – ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM.

“The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.” – ST. JOHN EUDES

“I do not think that there are many among bishops that will be saved, but many more that perish” – ST JOHN CHRYSOSTOM, EXTRACT FROM ST JOHN CHRYSOSTOM, HOMILY III ON ACTS 1:12

I have strong belief that today the clergy of all of the various Christian denominatins are more likely than ever to suffer eternal damnation. My reason for this belief is, that for years now, Chritian Clergy have been telling the laity that almost every kind of secusl activity is acceptable to God. These are things that all christians, including Protestants, Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox used universally condemn.

And it just keeps getting worse. Lately, it seems like one if Aldous Hucley’s dystopian prediction is comung true. In hus novel, A Brave New World, the future society placed an expectation on young prepubescent children that they must engage in erotic play. If a child in that futuristic society refused to engage in erotic play, then he was forced to undergo counciling to correct the mental disorder he was suffering from. Also, in that same novel, Mr. Huxley makes the prediction that in the future, the Christian Churches no longer teach about Jesus. He also predicts that the Archbishop of Cantebury’s title will be changed to archcommunity songster.

I find that the fact that so many members of the Christian clergy are teaching the laity to sin puzzles me because Jesus was so clear, in the Gospels, that whoever causes a person to din eould face serious consequences.

In Luke 17:1-2, Jesus said to his disciples, “Occasions for sin are bound to come, but woe to anyone by whom they come! It would be better for you if a millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea than for you to cause one of these little ones to stumble.”

There are parallel verses found in Matthew 18.6-7, Mark 9:42.

These verses mske me wonder if these heretical teachers are true believers at all. How is it possible that those alleged teachers of Christianity are not terrified of the verses I mentioned above?

 

[Der Alte]

Several wise Christians have given a similar description regarding the eternal fate that many of the clergy probably suffer. These beliefs have been around since the ancient days of the church.
Below is a list of many of these types of quotes:
“The floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.” – ST. ATHANASIUS, COUNCIL OF NICAEA, AD 325.
“The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts” – ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM.
“The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.” – ST. JOHN EUDES
“I do not think that there are many among bishops that will be saved, but many more that perish” – ST JOHN CHRYSOSTOM, EXTRACT FROM ST JOHN CHRYSOSTOM, HOMILY III ON ACTS 1:12
I have strong belief that today the clergy of all of the various Christian denominatins are more likely than ever to suffer eternal damnation. My reason for this belief is, that for years now, Chritian Clergy have been telling the laity that almost every kind of secusl activity is acceptable to God. These are things that all christians, including Protestants, Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox used universally condemn.
And it just keeps getting worse. Lately, it seems like one if Aldous Hucley’s dystopian prediction is comung true. In hus novel, A Brave New World, the future society placed an expectation on young prepubescent children that they must engage in erotic play. If a child in that futuristic society refused to engage in erotic play, then he was forced to undergo counciling to correct the mental disorder he was suffering from. Also, in that same novel, Mr. Huxley makes the prediction that in the future, the Christian Churches no longer teach about Jesus. He also predicts that the Archbishop of Cantebury’s title will be changed to archcommunity songster.
I find that the fact that so many members of the Christian clergy are teaching the laity to sin puzzles me because Jesus was so clear, in the Gospels, that whoever causes a person to din eould face serious consequences.
In Luke 17:1-2, Jesus said to his disciples, “Occasions for sin are bound to come, but woe to anyone by whom they come! It would be better for you if a millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea than for you to cause one of these little ones to stumble.”
There are parallel verses found in Matthew 18.6-7, Mark 9:42.
These verses mske me wonder if these heretical teachers are true believers at all. How is it possible that those alleged teachers of Christianity are not terrified of the verses I mentioned above?

I have not seen any credible, verifiable evidence that any clergy have done anything wrong. None of the mentioned sources were properly identified.

 

[Daniel Peres]

I have not seen any credible, verifiable evidence that any clergy have done anything wrong. None of the mentioned sources were properly identified.

Are you trying to be funny? Do you really expect me to believe that you are unaware of all the clergy that are endorsing same sex marriage? You haven’t heard about all of the Christian clergy that teach married couples that contraception is not sinful. Something that was condemned by universally by all Christian denominations.

I could go telling about things that are common knowledge, but I am not going to waste my time because I have a strong suspicion that you are part of the problem I am talking about. You say you are unaware of any wrong doing, but what I think you are saying is that you believe there is nothing wrong with what those perverted members of the clergy have done. You have no problem with same sex marriage. You probably hate the governor of my state of Florida for enacting a statute that prohibits teachers from talking to students about sexual immorality.

 

[Carl Emerson]

My clergy believe...

 

[JSRG]

Below is a list of many of these types of quotes:

“The floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.” – ST. ATHANASIUS, COUNCIL OF NICAEA, AD 325.

“The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts” – ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM.

“The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.” – ST. JOHN EUDES

As Abraham Lincoln once said, "the problem with many quotes on the Internet is that they're not true." No citations are provided for these quotes, and a quick search online turns up only other people offering them without citations, or people offering them with the acknowledgment that these sayings are only attributed to them, but may not have been said by them. These are tell-tale signs of false quotes.

“I do not think that there are many among bishops that will be saved, but many more that perish” – ST JOHN CHRYSOSTOM, EXTRACT FROM ST JOHN CHRYSOSTOM, HOMILY III ON ACTS 1:12

This one at least is legit (you can see it here), though of course it's also the only one where a source is offered.

 

[Carl Emerson]

As Abraham Lincoln once said, "the problem with many quotes on the Internet is that they're not true." No citations are provided for these quotes, and a quick search online turns up only other people offering them without citations, or people offering them with the acknowledgment that these sayings are only attributed to them, but may not have been said by them. These are tell-tale signs of false quotes.

This one at least is legit (you can see it here), though of course it's also the only one where a source is offered.

Even if we accept the quote is Kosher - how do we know he was right ???

 

[Daniel Peres]

As Abraham Lincoln once said, "the problem with many quotes on the Internet is that they're not true." No citations are provided for these quotes, and a quick search online turns up only other people offering them without citations, or people offering them with the acknowledgment that these sayings are only attributed to them, but may not have been said by them. These are tell-tale signs of false quotes.

This one at least is legit (you can see it here), though of course it's also the only one where a source is offered.

You are free to claim those quotes are not authentic. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. However, it doesn’t change the truth that is expressed in those statements.

You remind me of a group of Catholic apologists who did a video criticizing the book of another Catholic apologist, Dr. Taylor Marshall, called “Infiltration.” In that book, gives his case for how the Catholic Church got infiltrated by Progressives, Communists, and Masons. All of these other Catholic apologists criticized his theories and and made very rational that Dr. Marshall’s theories about how and when the Catholic Church was infiltrated by Progressives, Communists, and Masons. Everything they said made sense. However, it doesn’t matter whether Dr. Marshall’s theories about how and when the infiltration had happened are accurate. It still doesn’t change the the fact that infiltration occurred and is still going strong today.

So, for the sake of argument, I’ll stipulate to the fact that I have not proven the authenticity of those quotes. For the purposes of this argument, let’s focus on the modern Christian movement to make sexual immorality acceptable. The origins of this movement can be traced back to the Anglican Communion’s 1930 Lambeth Conference where the Anglican Communion declared that married couples could use contraception.

Prior to 1930, all Christian churches agreed that contraception was not acceptable for Christian couples. However, following this conference, one by one, other Christian denominations began to officially teach the same. This problem of Christian churches teaching that sexual immorality was not sinful kept progressing. For example, there are many Christian denominations that now officially teach things like homosexual acts are not sinful, and abortion is ok. Even in the Catholic Church, where the theology prevents the Church from ever officially teaching sexual immorality is not sinful, there are is an enormous amount of priests, and bishops (including Pope Francis) that are either expressly condoning sexual immorality or just making confusing statements that don’t exactly condemn sexual immorality.

I hope your not going demand that I prove that there was a Lambeth conference convened in 1930 that it changed the universal Christian belief that contraception was immoral. I hope you’re not going to demand that other churches followed the Anglican’s lead and did the same. I hope you’re not going to ask me to prove all of the immoral and confusing teaching that is currently going on in the Catholic Church. These are simply the facts, and you can verify them for yourself.

So, I would greatly appreciate it if you would simply offer your opinion as to how it is possible, that so many Christian ministers, priests, and bishops don’t seem to fear Jesus’ warning “It would be better for you if a millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea than for you to cause one of these little ones to stumble.”

 

[Daniel Peres]

My clergy believe...

Can you please clarify your statement. Are you saying your clergy believe and therefore continue to teach authentic the laity authentic Christian morality, or are you saying they believe Jesus’ and teach the laity to sin anyway?

 

[Daniel Peres]

Even if we accept the quote is Kosher - how do we know he was right ???

It is very reasonable to conclude he was right if we believe the truth of Jesus’ warning. Are you going to ask me, “How do we know Jesus was right?”

 

[Carl Emerson]

Can you please clarify your statement. Are you saying your clergy believe and therefore continue to teach authentic the laity authentic Christian morality, or are you saying they believe Jesus’ and teach the laity to sin anyway?

No, the branch of the Anglican church I am associated with does not condone the sins you refer to.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It is very reasonable to conclude he was right if we believe the truth of Jesus’ warning. Are you going to ask me, “How do we know Jesus was right?”

A general prophetic warning still needs to be subject to discernment to ascertain if it applies to specific persons and times does it not?

 

[Daniel Peres]

No, the branch of the Anglican church I am associated with does not condone the sins you refer to.

That’s great news! It gives me great comfort when I hear about Christian churches that continue to teach that sexual immoral acts are sinful.

So why do you think that priests and bishops in other parts of the Anglican Church seem to have no fear of Jesus’ warning? How is it possible Jesus’ warning to does not stop them from leading people to commit sin?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Good question.

May God help us all lest we also accept such compromise.

Mind you I don't extend immorality to all forms of contraception.

 

[Daniel Peres]

A general prophetic warning still needs to be subject to discernment to ascertain if it applies to specific persons and times does it not?

I understand what you are saying. However, it’s an objective fact, that many members of the Christian clergy are either expressly teaching people to sin, or st minimum they are causing confusion. Furthermore, they are not ignorant about the truth. They knowingly engage in spreading false teachings that make people believe that sinful acts are no longer sinful. Also, not only are they not ignorant of the fact they are teaching lies, they also claim that they know the truth.

So, if they were ignorant, they would not face the condemnation described in Jesus’ warning. They would be in a situation like the one described by Jesus in John 9:41, where Jesus said to the Pharisees, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin,” and so the same goes with the members of the clergy that are misleading Christians. But they are not ignorant, and even proclaim they are not ignorant. They say they see the truth. And as Jesus also said to the Pharisees in John 9:41, that since you “claim you can see, your guilt remains.”

And since they are not ignorant of the truth, they are, as a matter of fact, knowingly spreading lies to the laity, and as Jesus clearly stated in John 8:41, the devil “is the father of all lies.” Therefore, they are, as a matter of fact, knowingly serving the Devil. Isn’t it reasonable to believe that any member of the clergy that knowingly and openly chooses to serve the Devil will be subject to Jesus’ warning to those who cause people to sin?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I understand what you are saying. However, it’s an objective fact, that many members of the Christian clergy are either expressly teaching people to sin, or st minimum they are causing confusion. Furthermore, they are not ignorant about the truth. They knowingly engage in spreading false teachings that make people believe that sinful acts are no longer sinful. Also, not only are they not ignorant of the fact they are teaching lies, they also claim that they know the truth.

So, if they were ignorant, they would not face the condemnation described in Jesus’ warning. They would be in a situation like the one described by Jesus in John 9:41, where Jesus said to the Pharisees, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin,” and so the same goes with the members of the clergy that are misleading Christians. But they are not ignorant, and even proclaim they are not ignorant. They say they see the truth. And as Jesus also said to the Pharisees in John 9:41, that since you “claim you can see, your guilt remains.”

And since they are not ignorant of the truth, they are, as a matter of fact, knowingly spreading lies to the laity, and as Jesus clearly stated in John 8:41, the devil “is the father of all lies.” Therefore, they are, as a matter of fact, knowingly serving the Devil. Isn’t it reasonable to believe that any member of the clergy that knowingly and openly chooses to serve the Devil will be subject to Jesus’ warning to those who cause people to sin?

You raise some good points. It is possible they are spiritually blinded by a deceiving spirit and frankly without His grace any one of us could fall in this way. Whether they are knowingly deceived is unclear.

It is a matter of us being careful not to cast the first stone as well...

 

[Daniel Peres]

You raise some good points. It is possible they are spiritually blinded by a deceiving spirit and frankly without His grace any one of us could fall in this way. Whether they are knowingly deceived is unclear.

It is a matter of us being careful not to cast the first stone as well...

I am admit that many of clergy are victims themselves and therefore not guilty of sin. However, there are definitely many who are knowingly guilty of the sins I am referring to. I can say with 100% certainty that the leader of my church, Pope Francis, is fully aware that he has said and written misleading statements about Christian morality and more specifically the morality of the Catholic Church. There is no possibility that he is not fully aware of the erroneous things he has said. Nevertheless, I do hope he changes his ways before it’s too late.

Finally, I do agree no one should be casting stones, but nothing will stop me from rebuking them as Paul rebuked Peter for misleading the laity.

 

[Basil the Great]

The OP's point is well taken in terms of many modern days Christian clergy. However, I would point out that if it were not for contraception, we would probably have an additional 1.5-2 billion more people on the planet than what we now have. I would also point out that the Commission that issued it's report on contraception had a majority position and a minority one. The vast majority of Pontifical Commission on Birth Control recommended that the Catholic Church allow couples to decide the issue of contraception for themselves, reportedly 64 of 69 voting members siding with the majority report, claiming that contraception is not intrinsically evil. However, Pope Paul decided to accept the minority report and thus the Church still opposes the use of artificial contraception, despite the fact that Planet Earth has a limit to the number of people that it can sustain. Now I do not know what the population of the planet was 2,000 years ago, but I dare say that it was probably far less than 1 billion souls. Estimates now place the world's numbers at just shy of 8 billion.

 

[Ceallaigh]

What's the scriptural basis of contraception being a mortal sin? I hope it's not "be fruitful and multiply" because there's too many prophets, apostles, and even Christ who didn't follow being fruitful and multiplying". The only other passage I can think of that is being applied is Genesis 38:8-10

 

[Basil the Great]

Humane Vitae was not issued with the protection of Papal Infallibility. Hence, unless one wants to go by the doctrine of the Infallibility of the Ordinary Magisterium, it is possible that some future Pope could change the teaching on artificial contraception. How likely this is, none of us can say at this time.

 

[Jipsah]

No, the branch of the Anglican church I am associated with does not condone the sins you refer to.

Same here.